Topic: Was anyone else deeply offended by the "You Lie!" outburst?

[medic09]

Must....not....post......must....resist....

C'mon Greg, I've got work I don't want to do.  Let's take two 750Fours up to Taos or Abique or something... 

[MCRider]

What scares me is all this rhetoric coming from the right is getting more and more incendiary.

I actually had someone tell me "Obama is a Muslim and he's not even an American-born citizen!  You should listen to Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh, they really know what they're talking about."

I didn't think people actually BELIEVED the crap that is being spouted by Fox News.

The problem is, if it's okay to be incredibly disrespectful of the office and heckle the President and call him a liar DURING his speech, we're just that much closer to a #$%*ing crazy person taking all the LIES too seriously and taking matters into his own hands.

I don't normally pray about things, but I pray that day won't come...  The right is certainly inciting it to happen, though.

Come on, like the Left wasn't doing the same things to Reagan and the Bush's? Just as much hate and name calling going both ways.  Plenty of crap on both sides.

We don't even know who's lying and who's not. All we know is who makes us "feel" good.

And it doesn't take incendiary atmosphere to get a President shot. Just a crush on a movie star will do it.

There's nothing new here, a few more decades you'll be a cynical old coot too.

[MickeyX]

Once again, the "problem" isn't really that much of a problem in the first place.  According to Gallup polls 87% of Americans rate American health care as Excellent or Good.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/122663/Private-Public-Health-Plan-Subscribers-Rate-Plans-Similarly.aspx?CSTS=alert

Well, for once Ed has made a valid point. Healthcare is very good in this country. As a healthcare provider, I thank you.   We try very hard. The fact that people live much better and longer is proof that we are doing well. All over the world, not just here. It takes people from everywhere, diversity is the key, to figure out how to accomplish some of the things we do.

Now if he can just finally figure out that healthcare and health insurance/coverage are 2 different things.

[sangyo soichiro]

Must....not....post......must....resist....

let me help you and you help me..... AAAhhhhhhgggggggg!!!!!!1

May I join your club?

   Is there room for another?

So how 'bout those Mets?  Think they'll make the playoffs?   

[edbikerii]

Yes, so why don't we look at "health insurance reform" instead of "health care reform".  Then we'll be that much further ahead of the game.

Once again, the "problem" isn't really that much of a problem in the first place.  According to Gallup polls 87% of Americans rate American health care as Excellent or Good.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/122663/Private-Public-Health-Plan-Subscribers-Rate-Plans-Similarly.aspx?CSTS=alert

Well, for once Ed has made a valid point. Healthcare is very good in this country. As a healthcare provider, I thank you.   We try very hard. The fact that people live much better and longer is proof that we are doing well. All over the world, not just here. It takes people from everywhere, diversity is the key, to figure out how to accomplish some of the things we do.

Now if he can just finally figure out that healthcare and health insurance/coverage are 2 different things.

[myhondas]

I don't know...... but the Browns will probably stink again this year....... they should get some cheerleaders on hondas to make the game interesting.

"Yes, so why don't we look at "health insurance reform" instead of "health care reform".  Then we'll be that much further ahead of the game."


http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=58067.0

 

[medic09]

Must....not....post......must....resist....

let me help you and you help me..... AAAhhhhhhgggggggg!!!!!!1

May I join your club?

   Is there room for another?

So how 'bout those Mets?  Think they'll make the playoffs?   

Dunno, but they just marked 40 years to winning the '69 World Series.

[sangyo soichiro]

I don't know...... but the Browns will probably stink again this year....... they should get some cheerleaders on hondas to make the game interesting.

Who's the starting QB?  I haven't kept up.  But I gotta say that I'm a Brady Quinn fan.  I saw him play in person at Notre Dame.  Holy cow that UCLA come from behind win in the last 90 seconds or so was awesome!  And I was there when they almost beat USC and the infamous "Bush Push," time clock fiasco.  I think that was 2005, but time flies so I lost track.

[BeSeeingYou]

this guy who just bumped carter from the 'worst prez in modern history' position.

I guess we should nick name you Ecosse Van Winkle as you must have been asleep during the previous eight years.   Obama has been in office for 8 months and he as already surpassed the previous occupant who was asleep at the switch on 9/11, bungled the response to Hurricane Katrina, and lied the country into an unnecessary war in Iraq that has left 100,000 dead and will cost a couple of trillion dollars?  That's a bit of a stretch isn't it?

[mark]

Rob Miller is smiling.



Joe's little outburst resulted in over $200,000 in donations to Rob's 2010 campaign fund in the last 18 hours.

Good luck, Rob.

The 2010 Miller-Wilson race will be a rematch. Here's the National Journal assessment of the first round: "In 2008, [Wilson] faced his first serious challenge for re-election against Rob Miller, a retired Marine and an Iraq veteran. Without any help from national Democrats, Miller spent $624,365, half of what Wilson spent, and ran as a social conservative and critic of the Bush administration. He prevailed in Richland and four of the rural counties, but Wilson got 65% of the vote in Lexington to win overall, 54%-46%."

[Roach Carver]

Rob Miller is smiling.



I cant vote for a guy with a gap in his front teeth. also a midline deviation to the left i think

[edbikerii]

Guess you didn't notice the budget, then.  Oh yeah, you won't notice that until your taxes go up.  Just wait.  Then you'll all be singing a different tune.  But by then it will be too late.  Just try to undo any government entitlement program -- it is next to impossible.  The socialists know this, and that's why they are pushing for healthcare so hard.

If the liberals are so concerned about the poor, then why the assumption that the government should control it?  Why not set up charities and take care of them directly?

this guy who just bumped carter from the 'worst prez in modern history' position.

I guess we should nick name you Ecosse Van Winkle as you must have been asleep during the previous eight years.   Obama has been in office for 8 months and he as already surpassed the previous occupant who was asleep at the switch on 9/11, bungled the response to Hurricane Katrina, and lied the country into an unnecessary war in Iraq that has left 100,000 dead and will cost a couple of trillion dollars?  That's a bit of a stretch isn't it?

[BIKE]

First Mark Sanford now Joe Wilson...you decide.

Good to see McCain stepped up asking for an apology from this goof.

From Yahoo:THE FACTS: The facts back up Obama. The House version of the health care bill explicitly prohibits spending any federal money to help illegal immigrants get health care coverage. Illegal immigrants could buy private health insurance, as many do now, but wouldn't get tax subsidies to help them. Still, Republicans say there are not sufficient citizenship verification requirements to ensure illegal immigrants are excluded from benefits they are not due.

[edbikerii]

Haven't any of you guys ever been to an emergency room in a major city?  Illegal immigrants with no health insurance get treatment all the time.  They simply give false names and addresses, the bills are sent, and nobody pays.  How will that be any different under ObamaCare?

First Mark Sanford now Joe Wilson...you decide.

Good to see McCain stepped up asking for an apology from this goof.

From Yahoo:THE FACTS: The facts back up Obama. The House version of the health care bill explicitly prohibits spending any federal money to help illegal immigrants get health care coverage. Illegal immigrants could buy private health insurance, as many do now, but wouldn't get tax subsidies to help them. Still, Republicans say there are not sufficient citizenship verification requirements to ensure illegal immigrants are excluded from benefits they are not due.

[Skonnie Boy]

I'm basically a rabid socialist, and I thought Wilson's heckle was fine. 

I'm also a big fan of Taiwanese Parliament.  Better than watching one's party just roll over and take it all the time.

[BIKE]

Haven't any of you guys ever been to an emergency room in a major city?  Illegal immigrants with no health insurance get treatment all the time.  They simply give false names and addresses, the bills are sent, and nobody pays.  How will that be any different under ObamaCare?

Obviously there should be some changes to regulations but I'm still not sure we want hospitals replacing family doctors, NOW or under reform.

[ev0lve]

If the liberals are so concerned about the poor, then why the assumption that the government should control it?  Why not set up charities and take care of them directly?

You know why - when the economy tanks and the charity actually needs the money to do it's work the donations are not there. Thus, a crappy long term solution.

[Joel]

Politicians are like diapers, they both need changing regularly and for the same reason.

[Inigo Montoya]

I LOVE that vid! Something like that would make watching c-span interesting!

[Ecosse]

Politicians are like diapers, they both need changing regularly and for the same reason.

+1... THANK YOU JOEL!

[Inigo Montoya]

I have always thought they should have term limits but good luck in pushing that through. Just wish voters were not so lazy about researching candidates.

[Roach Carver]

you know what I would like to see. Term limits for all elected officials and short ones at that. we dont need career politicians of worse, a family of  politicians. I think a lot of the problem is corporate money and board jobs for said corporations after retirement. If the term was a couple years and only 2 terms, then big business would have difficulty keeping all of our politicians paid. I also think they should get their retirement benefits like the rest of us.

[Inigo Montoya]

That would be excellent. Only downside is we would have never ending re-election/election propaganda everywhere!
But I suppose if you got enough signs in your front yard, you would never have to mow!

[tomkimberly]

Hey ed, obama lies as much as YOU do.

tomkim, I think the crack pipe needs to be put down. when is it lying to say, no public option then after more talks, to decide it should be there? What, people cant change their minds? Or is that people YOU dont like cant change their minds.

I can with out a DOUBT say I am certainly no worse off under Obama than I was under Bush.
Also, if you bothered to check out something besides (what I suspect) faux news, you would know that yes there are still foreclosures going on, JUST AS THERE WERE UNDER BUSH, but the home market has started to slowly climb again.
The rate of job loss is decreasing.

Oh I get it, people like you think that for obama to be doing it right, everyone should have their jobs back overnight, even though that has never happened with a republican in office.

Do you think, just once, that you could put away the political crap and stop flying solely on party lines like ed?
I bet if mccain had gotten in and done the EXACT same thing, you would not be up in arms. Oh yes, you will deny it, like ed would, but I think at this time, the rest of us would see through the smoke.

Man, what a tool. You don't like the message so you assalt the messenger. no where in any of my posts did I ever say the previous administration was any better than this one. Are you sure you don't work for ACORN?

[edbikerii]

OK, so here's an alternative plan.  Any comments?

PLEASE EVALUATE THIS PROPOSED SOLUTION.  PLEASE TRY TO BE OBJECTIVE AND NON-PARTISAN.  PLEASE LET ME KNOW WHAT YOU THINK -- CONSTRUCTIVELY

Once again, the solution is not to take away more control from the consumer (the patient, the taxpayer, us), and give it to some government bureaucrat.  Nor is it good to allow the insurance company bureaucrats to keep control, either!

I think the solution is to give the consumer more choice, and give them an incentive to try to reduce the costs THEMSELVES.

I think the problem of rising health care costs is primarily a result of patients not bothering to think about the costs at all because they don't think they have to.  Patients typically don't care, because they know that the insurance company is going to pay.  Patients don't ask simple questions that any normal consumer in any other market would ask like "how much will that cost?", "why is that so expensive?", "do I really need that?", and "isn't there a cheaper way?"

Let me try to illustrate this with an example:
If you walk into a supermarket and you can either buy lobster for $15/lb. or hamburger for $4/lb., how likely are you to buy lobster every night for dinner?

If, on the other hand, you knew that somebody else was paying for your groceries, you might be more inclined to buy the lobster, even though the hamburger may, in fact, have better nutritional value.  In fact, you might even be more likely to buy the lobster JUST BECAUSE you know that other people could buy it on YOUR insurance premium dollar, so "why not".  After all, it will only increase your insurance premium by a couple cents, when spread out among all the other shoppers.  Besides, those other shoppers are probably eating lobster on my insurance premiums, so why shouldn't I?

Now, let's extend that analogy to health care.  if we could incent the patients to be more efficient with their healthcare spending, we wouldn't need the bureaucrats at the insurance company or in the government to ration the care, and the cost would be much lower.  The patients would take responsibility for their own choices, and expect more from their doctors, drug companies, and diagnostic equipment, for the same money.

You might also find that people take better care of themselves because they don't want to spend more money on health issues later.

So, I'm thinking that increasing the deductibles is a major part of the solution.  First off, it will make the insurance premiums cheaper right off the bat.  Secondly, it will incent the patients to bargain with their medical providers and ask the difficult questions about necessity and price, rather than just saying, "sure, let's do it, what the hell".  Then, the costs are lower, the providers would have to compete for business (always a good thing), and the providers would strive to come up with better, and/or cheaper methods to provide the same service.

Now, remember the money saved on the insurance premiums because of the higher deductibles?  GIVE THAT MONEY TO THE EMPLOYEES in order to pay for their regular health care.  You know, the stuff that doesn't exceed the deductibles:  Regular check-ups, etc.  The only restriction should be that they can ONLY SPEND THAT MONEY ON HEALTH-RELATED EXPENSES.  If they manage to save enough, they can use it to get their teeth fixed, to get breast enhancements, whatever.  Let them accumulate the money year after year and save up for costly stuff that they want done like lap-band surgeries, whatever.

Getting the costs down will help with Medicare and Medicaid, and the VA Hospitals, too.  All the learned efficiency from trying to keep the patients happy will lead to cost reductions ACROSS THE BOARD, and will lead to doctors, drug companies, hospitals and medical device manufactures innovating more in order to generate more profit and to make the patients happier.

Sure, I haven't ironed out all the details, but this idea sounds a hell of a lot better to me than anything I'm hearing from that mess of a health care "reform" bill so far.

So, what do you think?  Does this start to meet the needs?  Does it encourage innovation?  Does it preserve our excellent health care system for everyone?  Does it make health care more accessible?  Does it make it better for EVERYBODY?

If the liberals are so concerned about the poor, then why the assumption that the government should control it?  Why not set up charities and take care of them directly?

You know why - when the economy tanks and the charity actually needs the money to do it's work the donations are not there. Thus, a crappy long term solution.