Author Topic: Refurbished cam bearings - enough interest?  (Read 1912 times)

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Offline HondaMan

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Refurbished cam bearings - enough interest?
« on: September 11, 2009, 07:20:03 PM »
The same machine shop that is making my sprockets and will be quoting me the rocker shafts shortly is interested in helping me work up a service to re-bearing the cam bearings (aka "cam towers", "rocker towers") for the CB750 engines. We will be align-boring the worn cam bearings and installing a bearing insert in the bottom half of the towers, re-using the upper caps (because they never wear). If the rocker shaft holes are also worn, those will get bronze inserts (this is very rare, though, and usually only on K0, K1 and K2 bearings).

Please post a reply (or send me an e-mail at mgparis@concentric.net) if you might be interested over this coming Fall and Winter season. It will be on an "exchange" basis, where I need your old ones in trade (or will just refurb your old ones, if you can wait a few weeks for them). Price to be announced, either next week or the week of 9/21, when we get a firm quote for the bearing inserts.

See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

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Offline bucky katt

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Re: Refurbished cam bearings - enough interest?
« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2009, 07:23:53 PM »
YES!    ;D
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Offline GammaFlat

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Re: Refurbished cam bearings - enough interest?
« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2009, 07:25:30 PM »
yep - have 2 sets of cam towers for you. 

K6
K7 
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Offline HondaMan

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Re: Refurbished cam bearings - enough interest?
« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2009, 08:34:49 PM »
yep - have 2 sets of cam towers for you. 



I'll bet you'll have the time to work on them, too!  ;) :D
I sure like that part...  ;D
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Offline bryanj

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Re: Refurbished cam bearings - enough interest?
« Reply #4 on: September 12, 2009, 12:36:21 AM »
Back in the 70's when there was a shortage of parts for a while we had a machine man bore out the towers (with caps bolted on) then he made half round bronze "shells" (about 3mm thick) that he stopped rotating using a hardened steel pin through the shell into the alloy.

This meant that as long as the cam lobes were OK he could grind the bearing areas round again and make "shells" to suit whatever.

Used to cost about 75% of buying new parts but we did it cos the parts were on 12-15 week backorder at the time
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Offline Ace

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Re: Refurbished cam bearings - enough interest?
« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2009, 03:49:55 AM »
All I have to do now is find my spare towers.  I'm interested.
1971 CB750 K1 - Sold
1978 CB750 F2 Supersport - Sold
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Offline voxonda

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Re: Refurbished cam bearings - enough interest?
« Reply #6 on: September 12, 2009, 04:27:18 AM »
The same machine shop that is making my sprockets and will be quoting me the rocker shafts shortly is interested in helping me work up a service to re-bearing the cam bearings (aka "cam towers", "rocker towers") for the CB750 engines. We will be align-boring the worn cam bearings and installing a bearing insert in the bottom half of the towers, re-using the upper caps (because they never wear). If the rocker shaft holes are also worn, those will get bronze inserts (this is very rare, though, and usually only on K0, K1 and K2 bearings).

Please post a reply (or send me an e-mail at mgparis@concentric.net) if you might be interested over this coming Fall and Winter season. It will be on an "exchange" basis, where I need your old ones in trade (or will just refurb your old ones, if you can wait a few weeks for them). Price to be announced, either next week or the week of 9/21, when we get a firm quote for the bearing inserts.



Very interested Mark, like to keep the old ladies running!

Cheers, Rob
« Last Edit: September 12, 2009, 04:49:34 AM by voxonda »
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Offline HondaMan

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Re: Refurbished cam bearings - enough interest?
« Reply #7 on: September 12, 2009, 07:18:46 AM »
Back in the 70's when there was a shortage of parts for a while we had a machine man bore out the towers (with caps bolted on) then he made half round bronze "shells" (about 3mm thick) that he stopped rotating using a hardened steel pin through the shell into the alloy.

This meant that as long as the cam lobes were OK he could grind the bearing areas round again and make "shells" to suit whatever.

Used to cost about 75% of buying new parts but we did it cos the parts were on 12-15 week backorder at the time

I have a similar plan, Bryan: today, a mill can "circinterp" (circular interpolate) a half-round hole on just one side, so I won't have to pin the bearing against rotation. I can just install a bearing (possibly a flanged bearing) in the cam tower half and use the matching cap above to capture it. I'm hoping to use common bearing inserts, if I can find the right size, but you do bring up a very good point: many of these cams have journals that are either worn some, or were simply out of spec (from the factory, very common) on the small side. The ones that came out small were the ones that wore fastest (this was mostly in the K4-K6 engines) because they could not capture the oil film for too large clearances.

So, bronze is an excellent idea! And easier to make than plain inserts might be to find...it withstands poor oiling conditions better, too. I'll be looking at that: I might need to use a mill to finish-size the bearing in place, which would be a cost increase, though.

There's always the babbett bearing approach, but it's been some many years since I used it, I'm not sure I remember how to do it for small ones like this: it's a sort of "solder fill" bearing technique where you can make a perfect bearing fit to a journal, so the oil pressure makes for a perfect film, lasts forever. It requires a break-in time of lowered RPM, which is why carmakers dropped it in the 1950s for common shell types instead: if you ran an engine too fast, too soon, the babbett bearings would burn and fail. If you waited 1000-2000 miles first, they outlasted the car. The upper speed limit, in these cams, would be 5000 RPM at the cam, so it could work...
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Offline bert96

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Re: Refurbished cam bearings - enough interest?
« Reply #8 on: September 12, 2009, 12:07:47 PM »


 +1



Bert
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Offline Big Jay

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Re: Refurbished cam bearings - enough interest?
« Reply #9 on: September 12, 2009, 01:43:21 PM »
What kind of sprockets you need?

Offline 754

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Re: Refurbished cam bearings - enough interest?
« Reply #10 on: September 12, 2009, 03:13:27 PM »
Not sure how good babbit would stick to alum alloy?

 You could rough em on a lathe, cut out about an 1/8 inch radial leave the outer edges of the original tower and cap.. so that the actual babbit in narrower at the OD and near full width at the ID.
 Them with a lathe of about 40 inches travel , using a fixture, line bore (between centers, on size.. or a skosh under & hone to fit..
 I can help show you how.. then the stock markings would still be valid.
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Offline HondaMan

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Re: Refurbished cam bearings - enough interest?
« Reply #11 on: September 12, 2009, 08:07:20 PM »
What kind of sprockets you need?

I'm replicating Honda's discontined sprockets for these SOHC4 bikes. They were specially made (see the Service Bulletins for some info, but there is more that was not published widely...). The power-to-the-ground difference with the Honda sprockets is considerable, and was well proven on the tracks in my old racing days. I also got almost 5 times the mileage out of Honda's sprockets, as compared to the standard ASME types. The current ones available from JT (aka EMGO) are standrad ASME: I just bought some to verify it, and they are.

My last set of all-Honda sprockets, with a single Diamond Powersport chain (then called the "XDL" chain), went over 40,000 touring miles (from 1996 to 2005) and are still in my "spares" box somewhere in my garage, as they show little wear. The chain is only stretched 1%. That is dramatically better performance than you will find with anything else...  ;)
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com