Topic: Project 13 CB400F. Now putting on the miles...

[fasturd]

I have seen that style before... Do you know the mfgr? Looks to be a good spring for everyone!!!

[supersports400]

Hi,

I don't know, but I have this picture :

[fasturd]

I love stuff like that. I like finding vntage parts I never knew existed. Great pic.

[fasturd]

OK all the front stuff is off, clean and rebuilt. Stashed is a safe place until rebuild time...

Next is the rear end.

The rear EPM wheel uses a trick Brembo master, caliper and rotor set up.

GEtting ready to remove.


Everything has come apart with no effort. Its nice to work on a bike that isnt a total piece of crap for once!


The wheel and assorted bits are out.


Lots of detailing to do before re-assembly but not hard to do.


Rear caliper hanger. The castings are very nice. As complete as this kit is you would think there would be more 400s running around with this set up.


The caliper is dissambled and clean. Pretty much like any caliper except this particular one is a twin piston. It is very similar to the factory set up on the GL1000 and the CB750K


Everything in its place ready to go back. I use WURTH products pretty much exclusively. I know and love the quality. The silicone is for all the rubber brake parts as a lube and a weather seal. The CU800 is a copper anti-sieze good to 2100+ degrees! When I build something I like to make sure the next owner will be able to dissamble it with no trouble!
The caliper is super cool and vintage Brembo parts are MUCH less expensive than similar Honda parts. Both pistons NEW with an updated anti-friction coating are only $27.00!!!! Cant even buy seals for that from Honda!


Little better view. I coat all threads with CU800 unless the mfgr spec's to assemble dry.


More of same... A little bit goes a long way to ward off future corrosion.


Everything re-assembled. Seals in place. Pads loaded.


Ready for future rides. Need to refinish the hanger next.


A couple of shots of the rear wheel before a complete clean and lube.


The chain ring set up is pretty cool. This is the same wheel sets the Ducatti race team used in the late 70's and early 80's. The mag wheel sizes are a little wider than stock.


Drive side.


I pulled the pipes to make it easier to remove the rear wheel... The pipe is mint and I did not want to risk @#!$%*! it up. The engine and underside need some detailing anyway. Much easier to do without the pipe in place.


Looks weird naked. The S/O thought I was nuts taking it all apart!


More to come. There will be a few more side jobs to get ready for the big re-assembly!

I am mulling over two additions. I have a set of period Dunstall clipons and a Yoshima swing arm with no rear foot pegs and a super cool and rare A-Trac(?sp) anti-torque assembly... Decisions decisions...

[supersports400]

Hi,

Just curious, are these older brembo's  much better then the original set-up ?
In my memory these brembo's weren't much better, but maybe it's going to be better with modern brake pads ?

I changed the brake pads in my front brake for modern ones, makes a lot of difference (much better).

Jensen

[fasturd]

Hello,
The "original" set up was a drum brake from Honda. And on the 400they always seem to work OK. I have had 4 400Fs and this one stops the best. The rear disc is very user friendly. Not sure if it is really needed on a bike like this but I just love how trick the set up is. The Wheels are wider than stock and so are the tires so that may be why it stops so well too. The bike has a very neutral feel. My other 400s got a little twitchy at high speeds this one is very stable. The fork has had some tuning done to it and it works well with the Konis.

[fasturd]

... And so on and so on...LOL.

Building a cafe bike from a crappy garage sale CB750 basket case is SOOOOooooo much easier than this resto/detail stuff. My A.DD. kicks in and all I want to do is tear it apart and make a hot rod out of it!

I rebuilt the brakes detailed the front fender. (acid bathed the underside to remove 35 years of "stuff").




 Cleaned and detailed the fork legs. I am NOT polishing anything. This bike is so original that all I am doing is rebuilding sub assemblies to keep it in good shape. I will not be "re-finishing" any of the engine cases or body panels. Only maintenance items will be replaced and only with NOS stuff. It is pretty cool finding the usual paint marks. But On this bike there are hand written and in one case stamped marks you usually don't see on weathered bikes.
I had to be careful on the left fork leg as there was a stamp 377 that matches the ID on the 377 front fender. There are also written markings on the engine I will post pics later.



Anyway. so the bottom of the front was done and I needed to tackle the upper part. So headlight, gauges etc needed to be detailed. This step did not include the handle bars and it still took HOURS...

The pictures are bad as my camera does NOT like taking pictures of chrome or black. I am working on updating the photo equipment too.

First two pics are the of the rear EPM waiting to be reinstalled.




The dash and gauges are nice. The P/O never removed the plastic cover on the dash... I don't have the heart to remove it now.



Moved everything out of the way to clean up head tube. The bearings will be replaced next year everything seems smooth and I am not going to mess with something that is working so well. Pretty early build date. thought my buddy has one about a month older.


OK I know these are not that exciting... More about documenting the job that pure entertainment.



After putting it all back together. Everything worked. I just wanted to detail all the nooks and crannies. I cleaned the light bulbs. Made sure all the connections were clean and in place.



Some how I managed to not get the main shot...geez I will up date that later.
Another detail that is not too obvious is the previous owner intalled a CB750 headlight back in the late 70's. He did a super job and it looks factory. 2 undectable "Z" bends in the stock 400 headlight hanger and the bucket fits. He also carefull slotted the bucket to move the mounting hole back about 1/2". What I like is this guy did the same stuff to this bike I would have done if I wasn't only 12 at the time!
He was 71 when I bought the bike from him and he bought it NEW.

I will get a better shot of the cluster and headlight tonight.

[supersports400]

Hi,

I know how it feels to work on such a nice intact bike.
One owner, took great care of it, changed a few things, but did it very nice.
All bolts are greased back in the 70's, everything get's loose without braking etc.etc.

Your front fork seems pretty nice, mine has a lot of stone hits on the front, so I have to polish them.

show more pictures, nice,

jensen

[MaaseyRacer]

What type of acid wash did you use on that fender it looks great.

[fasturd]

The acid wash is a the companion product to Wurth Rust Guard. It is a Zinc Phosphate product, spray it on. Let it sit and rub with steel wool. Works great on chrome. Nice for scuzzy exhausts too.

[fasturd]

The Front is almost done. Brake rebuilt and mounted. Fender is in place Everything is clean and ready to go. Front wheel is done but I didn't have time to install it.
Caliper swingarm details.



Font end nicely sorted and ready for a wheel. Notice 7" CB750K headlight.


Detail of larger headlight. The bike is running a modern rec/reg. Charges fine. I am considering a HID as the systems are getting cheaper and they use much less juice. There is a switch to shut the light off when not needed.


Cluster remounted looks much better in real life! I hate this camera. New one comming shortly!


Did not get as much done as I thought I would. I tried a new Burbon and it seemed to slow me down a bit... = )

[fasturd]

The dunstall clipons are a no go. They require a couple of small mods I do not want to make on this bike. More for the next project!
Still thinking about the swingarm.

[swan]

Wow, nice find! The midwest has a short riding season which makes for nice bikes in the spring.

Thanks for all the documentation for reference. I have built and sold 2 CB400f's and am currently building two more.

Taste is subjective and I personally hate comstar rims of any type. They are anachronistic on these bikes. You did a good job restoring them. Yes, the rack needed to be trashed.

I'll follow your build and good luck.

[fasturd]

Thanks for the kudos.
The wheels on my 400 are Itialian EPM magnesium not Comstars! They were a kit built specifically for the 400F in the late 70s. Lighter stiffer and with improved braking and they were VERY expensive in the day. They were good enough for Kaz and Pops (so they are good enough for me). Nothing on this bike is restored every finish is original. That is what is driving me crazy about the project. It is very hard to NOT want to polish and repaint everything or just tear it apart and cafe it out. The original owners vision complements the 400 very well and I plan on keeping that theme.
We have chatted in the past. You had a project 400 that I was thinking about to work on with my daughter. We decided to build something a little smaller as she is not legal street age yet. And I think I saw one of your other bikes on Ebay a few years ago the one with the front drum brake?
The long NON-riding season does make for nice bikes but it also makes for cooped up crazy ass motorcyclists!
I am Jealous of your location, we ride your way many times a year to tear up se MN and NE Iowa. Great roads down yonder!

[fasturd]

a·nach·ro·nism (-nkr-nzm)
n.
1. The representation of someone as existing or something as happening in other than chronological, proper, or historical order.

Well according to the definition Comstars would be anachronistic as would putting a drum brake on the front of a 400F... But using EPMs, Shelby Dowd, Campy's, Kim Tab or other mag wheels of the time is contemporaneous. Racers of the time and earlier had been looking for ways to get stronger stiffer lighter wheels. Spoked wheels were nearing their end at that time. Yes you can build very nice sets of alloy rimmed wheels NOW. But at the time mags were the way to get stiffer, lighter and WIDER. Both of my EPMs are siginificantly wider than the stock steel wheels. In this case using them also allowed for a rear disc brake set up. The whole kit was installed in 1979 a time when many 400Fs were getting modified. It was a time for OMC, RC, Kaz, Pops, Dunstall, John Tickle and dozens of other mfgrs to make their name in aftermarket parts. This stuff was contemporary, it was cool then and in my mind way cooler and much rarer than stock parts are today.
I have every single original part that the P/O took off this bike. If the next owner wants it to be stock (dime a dozen) he can have it all... Including the mint stock wheel set.
bp

[supersports400]

Hi fasturd,

My front wheel is made ready to except two disks, are your wheels also prepared for the double disk set up ?

Jensen

[swan]

I am glad you found a nice bike for you and your daughter. I decided to restore both of my CB400f's. You did see a couple of my other CB400f on ebay a couple years ago.

Again, taste is subjective and yes, once again I am putting a drum on one my CB400F's but it is a 1975 Cl360 front drum, the same year as my CB 400F, so they are not anachronistic. (maybe in style). I understand EPM rims are rare and cool to some, but not to me.

You are doing great work and spring riding will be here in a few weeks. Let me know when you are down my way, there are hundreds of miles of curving, relatively empty roads along the bluffs and river. My own personal racetrack.

[fasturd]

Jensen,

I am pretty sure I could double disc the 400 BUT the right sidw of US spec 400s does NOT accept a Caliper carrier. You need to let us know if your euro spec 400 has the bosses to mount a caliper on the right side. After rebuilding my master and caliper on past 400s including this one I have so much braking force I can watch the forks bend... Not sure I really need a double disc. Let me know if your forks are different.

[fasturd]

Swan,

It doesn't matter to me. I like all styles. More bike of the moment for me. I have two 750s in the works one with laced alloy rims and the other with a set of Hayashi mags. I flip flop back and forth which one I like the looks of better.

The drum brake on a 400 does give it that older english look. I am more influenced by the early super bikes so my style leans towards discs and some times mags.

I have 4 other buddies with Honda 400s. Two ride 400Fs another a 400CB-1 and last but not least the fastest one rides a gray market VF400R (super cool) I will get them all down there on the little bikes some time this summer and we will look you up. I am sure a local knows better roads than we can find!

You should start posting your current project(s). It would be cool to follow along and compare notes.
Good luck.

[Zaipai]

I rebuilt the brakes detailed the front fender. (acid bathed the underside to remove 35 years of "stuff").

What did you use for the acid bath?

.: Scott :.

[traveler]

scroll up Scott, he talks about the product and steel wool above.

Project looks GREAT!  Looks like you did a full restoration...big bucks and time....but the bike should be exactly what you want.

~Joe

[Zaipai]

The acid wash is a the companion product to Wurth Rust Guard. It is a Zinc Phosphate product, spray it on. Let it sit and rub with steel wool. Works great on chrome. Nice for scuzzy exhausts too.

Ah. thanks Joe, I some how missed it the first time..

.: Scott :.

[fasturd]

Hey guys,

The Wurth product is very similar to the product P.O.R sells. Same Idea. I think there are many Zinc Phosphate etches out there. They amazing for chrome clean up. Same product many use to clean the inside of gas tanks.

And just to restate. I am NOT restoring this bike. NOTHING will be repainted or Restored cosmetically. I like patina from honest use. However I am going through all the mechanical systems to make sure everything performs as new. All the clean and shiny bits you see are original to the bike. Just cleaned as well as they can be cleaned. No surfaces will be refinished. Like Jay Leno says... "They are only original once."

I ride all my bikes and this one will be no exception. I hope to show it at a local VJMC show this spring but because its not completely stock it will most likely not place very well.
But hey, its one of a kind and its mine!
Thanks for checking it out.

[fasturd]

Spring is in the air and project 13 still is too... Tic toc. Never enough time to get everything done. And still have fun in the garage.

I tore into the rear end a bit the last few days. So the following pics are of the removed rear fender, inner tail light and left side cover.

I am switching to a 16 tooth front sprocket as it was a very common "performance" mod in the day and it really wakes up the little 400. A few more revs at highway speeds but the 16 tooth will let the engine pull to redline in top gear. It is also noticabley quicker around town.

So after removing all the rear fender stuff and cleaning it. I pulled the left engine cover. Before you do this especially on a really nice bike, invest in a decent impact driver. A couple of good hard whacks and the screws are free with NO damage. Obviously I needed to remove the cover to change the sprocket but I also knew what I would find in there! I encountered a leak on other 400s in the past that seemed like a oil seal was leaking and it would ooze oil out of the cover where the shifter shaft comes through. Anyway a long time ago I learned to just go in there and clean out the accumulated crap from 35 years of chain lube fling. What happens is as the bike and the chain gets hot the stuff oozes out and makes it look like the shifter shaft is leaking... Any way CLEAN it out!

Easy to clean the cover. It takes a little more patience to clean the engine. It is worth the effort. I use Wurth contact cleaner in this application. Safe for paint and really eats the crud.




The rear fender was treated with Wurth Metal Prep just like the frot. It really cleans up and corrosion issues and leaves a nice zinc phosphate coating on the parts that are no longer chromed.


The inner was degreased, washed and waxed.


The tailight and lisc. mount was dis-assembled and treated the same as the fender. They were super nice to begin with but look even better now. Tedious work but it is still too cold and slippery to ride anyway...


I forgot to take "after" pics of the side cover and inner... I will get those posted after the gear is installed.
Parts are almost ready to start going back on the bike. I cannot wait to get'er done!

I think I am going to try Hondaman's ignition. Should be easy to install and hide while the bike is still apart.
I used a Dyna on the last 400. It was a great running bike before but the Dyna really smoothed out the idle and I swear I could feel it pull harder. It looks like Hondamans system has had glowing reviews so I am going to try his this time.

[fasturd]

I got back out there and dug a little deeper. Does it ever end? I am glad the snow isn't gone yet or I would be rushing all this.
So I grabbed a Burbon this time...

The after pics I forgot the other night. The left side cover and left inner after a good cleaning. I will be installing a 16 tooth front sprocket and then buttoning it all back together.



A couple of hose routing pics. trying to keep everything tidy.



OK I know I am going crazy because tonight I disassembled the foot pegs and detailed them.


The real reason was I am tring to get the rear all back together. I pulled the swing arm, shocks, inner and rear fender and the rear master and caliper set up. So it ALL has to get back together soon! This is a shot of the rear end together waiting for the Refurbushed Brembos to be refitted.


These are the Brembo master mounts and the caliper carrier. I like them in raw aluminum. The paint was peeling and it was driving the P/O nuts. In honor of his loving care of this bike I am goint to repaint them black just like he wanted.

They do look cool raw...


I have been straighting out the electrical details too. No problems just want everything to look tidy. The extra "black box" in the photo is a relay for the Fiamm horns. HOLY CRAP Batman are those puppies loud.


The rear brakes will be finished tomorrow. I hope to have the rear wheel in place and start the engine details. It is hard to come in at night (as I am sure all of you can attest to!)