Ok. I will bite. Undercover? Sting Operation? Wow, that is a nicely folded tin foil hat you have.....
let's begin:
Well, this is amazing. Here we have 2 pages of a thread, and the participants from this site have absolutely proven, beyond a shadow of a doubt, they can be just as rude, disgusting, ignorant, and impolite as Charlie's worker with the long black hair. Edit: Oh.. wait a minute, she never lipped off, she just "gave him a look" of "get lost" he says. I am sorry, I just realized that, no you guys WIN hands down, you're way worse, way way worse.
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I'd say collectively you proved yourselves certainly no better than Charlie's people, and for the hypocrisy factor that is enourmous, worse again !
I'll give one exception for 754, whom I believe without looking made only one post, and the only kind one at that.
While I can't speak for anyone else on this forum, I have been very clear from the begining that the employee of charlie's was unhelpful and I felt that she was rude. It is a statement of personal feeling so it does not have to be quantativley defined. Since you were not there you could not be a judge of that situation so any comparison as to how rude one person is vs another is baseless and without merit because you are working off my sparse description. I am positive I am leaving out details (I didn't even talk about the other parts I wanted which were a pair of caliper pistons for a 750). But hey if you want to say this forum is collectivley ruder than.....it's your opinion and you are free to it. Just don't be surprised when a lot of people disagree with you.
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Furthermore, I read them all, and read the link, and counted the satisfied vs not - and Charlie won with 20 satisifed 5 or 4 stars out of 5, vs the 7 that were disgruntled, so for the one poster, jumping in the rudeness to fit in, you were absolutely incorrect when you claimed more people dissed Charlie's on the linked site, than praised him.
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I DID NOT say more people dissed charlie than praised him. I DID say that others had had a similar expirence and here was written proof of that. There is a lot of things that can add up to customer satisfaction and I did not have that expirence. I had another expirence and walked away dissatisfied and I have been clear about my dissatisfaction. I have not once called into question the quality of the work performed by the shop which I suspect contributed a lot the positive feedback. Everybody's expirence is going to be different from shop to shop and person to person. Here I had a negative expirence. The next person could have a positive expirence...who knows. The reason I report it is because 1) I feel it puts the community (at least who reads this board) on notice that this is an issue with the shop and allows the consumer to make an informed decision and 2) it lets the shop owner know that there is a problem that needs addressing for his business to improve.
Also, I will note that the gentleman starting this thread, had more than smidgen of self importance going in, bragged about having a tank "better than Charlie's", already had a tank on his bike, probably should not spend the money as his wife pointed out(his claim), was angry about "losing a magazine commission" but pretended he was fair and honest, was unwilling to share his "importance and affiliation" after realizing he had no clout or proof of his "ownership" of the bike, ( He didn't even have a picture of it in his wallet he could show ?) thereby ruining his chance to be believed by a place that obviously has to watch out for scammers, and noted he repeatedly had the lady get up, interrupt Charlie to "ask a question he knew Charlie would have the answer to" ( and he KNEW someone was in there having a meeting with him, and when that is the case, you're SUPPOSED TO WAIT, mr uncover nobody! - but instead, the woman "had an attiude" - because mr self importance still felt all bigshot, but wasn't getting treated like one, I mean Charlie should have dropped everything and run forward to mr reporter spy ! Kinda hard to do, because it was a sting operation! I mean holy freaking molly !) I gotta remember that, I'm nobody, for real, but so what, when I go into mr bigs place, he had better drop everything and scuttle on over to me, or his secretary of defense had better bust him down for ME and my "check his knowledge queries".
NOPE - everyone knows polite and just is and correct business is, is YOU WAIT little potato boy.
Let's be clear about this...am I a little self important? sure I'll own up to that, but so is anybody who has a bike that needs parts or needs service and is going to a shop. Afterall I am not buying parts or having my bike fixed for the shop's benefit. I am having it fixed for my own.
The reason I brought up the NOS tank I have is because it really is RARE to have an unused piece of bodywork from the 70's these days. The piece I was looking to buy from charlie was not really all that rare (original sunrise flake tanks are rarer than most but they do come up on ebay from time to time). My NOS tank is a 1975 F tank and won't work for my 1973 K. Did I already have a tank on my K bike? yes I did. Why did I want to buy Charilie's tank? well because I had two really nice original side covers and the tank that is on my K bike the original orange paint is shot. Really I was looking to buy the paint job from charlie more than the tank itself.
The bit about my wife was a joke intended to inject a little humor in the situation. If I didn't have the money to spend I would not have bothered going in in the first place. I don't know if you are married but I think the ones of us that are can agree we do take a little static for impulse motorcycle spending from the S/O every once in a while no matter how on board they are with our hobby. In reality my wife was cool with me buying parts, and she even thought the T-rex built out of honda parts was kind of cool.
I am not upset about losing a magazine comission because there was no comission to be had. In full discolsure, I am HFL's legal department not it's editorial so most of what I earn comes from doing contracts and disclaimers, but as the only one on staff that gives a damn about vintage bikes they tend to appreciate my input from time to time regarding vintage content. I have an open invitation if I see something cool to submit the story and write up but I seldom do. With the VJMC magazine they are always looking for content, but there is no pay either. The reason I brought up my interest in magazines at all was to show that when I approach a shop like this it is usually out of the sense of community and not out of pecuniary interests. I devote a large portion of my time and energy to my local scene and expect no payment in return. This year the NY chapter of the VJMC sponsored a show and all the prizes given away came out of my own pocket because the organization is not for profit and has no money. I only added those things in in the post to illustrate you never know who your customer is or who he has connections to. Had I had a positive expirence I would have been happy to put forth my time and energy because I feel that there are few shops that really take care of the people and its hobby.
Let me be totally transparent as to why I was at charlie's in the first place. I was there to buy parts. The story of how I ended up there actually starts at Dottie's cafe that morning where I had a conversation with a customer of Charlie's while standing in line for a table. The guy had just sold his cb750K and was moving to brooklyn (where I live) and mentioned that he was going to be looking for another cb750 when he got to NYC. I turned him on to NYC vinmoto, and gave him a basic rundown of the local shops and bike nights. I even hinted that one of my cb750s (I have
may be up for sale soon. In turn he suggested I go to charlie's place to find the tank and caliper pistons I had been looking for and even gave me directions. I had heard about charlie's through this site before but really did not have plans to visit, but they way he described the place it sounded really cool, plus I really need those caliper pistons and really wanted to find that tank. So I figured what the hell. I was not there to do anything else per se, but if it turned out to be cool enough that is the kind of thing I like to see get promoted in the hobby.
I did not know he was in a meeting with someone else. All I could see in his office was a person with their back to the window. If there was another person there I could not see them. I do remember asking if charlie was going to be free soon and the response I got was "I don't know".
- and was surprised when the woman got tired of picking the boss' brain for free, for a guy who no doubt was already fuming. He also said he would sell his super rare tank "if someone needed it badly enough", indicating, quite unconsciously, he ALSO has a standard to be met in the sale !
I dare you to make less sense. First - not super rare. Uncommon, for sure, super rare? no. we covered that. According to his policy stated here I met all the criteria. According to what his employee said I was also not part of their scene or not spending other service money with their shop, or some other reason I was not local and therefore not entitled to buy from their stash. That makes it seem like there is no policy at all.
I am very suspicious of shops that require you to spend other money to get something that would ordinarily be available. The best example is insepctions in NY - NYS requires licensed shops to charge only $6 for inspections, but some shops won't give you an inspection unless you buy parts or have your bike serviced by them. I have 20 bikes so I am good for 20 inspections every year, and I try to go to shops I have never been before. If they give me the inspection, I usually make a point to recommend them when someone asks me about it, if they turn me away I usually don't promote them and post thier info to the vinmoto list to warn others that this place may not be on the up and up. NYS says you can't turn away inspections but a lot of shops do it and nobody enforces it. I think the same thing applies here. If you hold yourself out as a parts seller, then sell parts - don't use the promise of selling parts to sell services instead without telling your customers first.
After all that, stating he "doesn't want to tell Charlie how to run his business", that is of course, exactly what he did, anyway. A lot of the rest here felt absolutely justified in doing the same thing , and somehow that isn't extremely rude, arrogant, and absolutely out of line ? No, you bet it is.
And I'll tell you EXACTLY how I know it. I'm new here, and I can see, how what I said here, is very similar to the complaints here about how Charlie runs his business, and there is no doubt, the vast majority of you are ready to pile on me for it, telling you what a lousy rude thread you have going - same thing- well take your thought and call it even, all the way around, you me and Charlies, all the same, obviously. 
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ok you got me. I said exactly my expectations when I come to a shop and how they were not met. I did not tell him what to do with this employee or how to handle it in the future, but I did say exactly what I felt was wrong with the situation. I guess this can be construed as telling someone how to run their business in a loose sense so I will give you this one as a mulligan. However you ARE NOT NEW HERE (meaning to this forum), which means that you are a liar.
Now I have one comment on the link mentioned several times - one poster/complainer mentioned going in for a used 78 tank petcock, and the lady technician said she didn't feel like searching for one right then. Personally, I thought that was wonderful, and honest, and absolutely correct.
A polite person, one worthy enough to complain about that, would have replied "What do you need honey, can I get you a coffee or a sandwhich?" Of course a polite and caring person wouldn't complain about it, they would show some kindness, instead of just demanding it be shown them.
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I had the same expirence with my caliper pistons, but I gave them less press because at that point I could tell I was not getting anywhere with this shop. I didn't demand anything and I am not in the food truck business so getting someone a sandwich would not have been something I would have offered right off the bat (maybe if the conversation progressed and I felt good about the service I would have offered but it went nowhere). I am a customer. I was polite, I was soft spoken, I was clear about what I wanted, and I had the money to pay of it. I demanded nothing, and when I felt I was making no progress with the employee I asked to speak to the owner and got nowhere with that. After that I left.
I see the posts threatening Charlie that he will lose business, oh he's going to pay...oh he could have "picked up exposure".
Well guess what, he can do without every single one of you, and you're obviously NOT going to break a 16 year winning streak, nor have you just come in upon him "at a bad time", and boy have you guys lectured the "master" - yes that is really amazing.
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Let me be clear about this part also. It is not my intention for charlie to lose business. It has, was and always will be my intention to help the community by allowing the customer to make an informed choice about a place. I hope charlie doesn't lose one scrap of business from my complaining, but I also hope that he addresses what is recogized to be a problem with his current situation. I would hope he is the type of person that would like to imporve his situation and customer service is an area that needs improving. As for exposure, every little bit helps. Even this little bit of "bad exposure" is probably helping him as there may be a lurker in the bay area that didn't know about this shop and will now check it out. Of course he will also now know to be cautious in dealing with the staff and ask for charlie instead. It doesn't help though that by having an employee be rude to a customer it cost him more than a sale, it cost him extra exposure that you can't usually buy and that would have touched a market that he would not normally advertise in. I felt I needed to point this out because, frankly it has value and he forfeited that value by hiring inept employees with little social skills.
Now, you wanted his shop to be nice, but all save one of you were not nice. I'm not nice either. Charlie was nicer than I'd have been here, too, he and 754 stand alone, above. (My apologies a young man on the 1st page also praised Charlie's)
Congratulations fellas, we're all quite a team.
You were not there. I was. You have no idea how nice or not nice I was. Despite being a massive prick on the internet I am actually a pretty nice person to meet in the flesh. but you don't know that either.
This is absolutely classic as well: " I am someone who is always willing to help out the small shop with as much exposure as I can measure and rarely do I ask for anything in return (if there is an angle in it for me it is usually indirect like page views for HFL or advertising, or getting paid for mag content). However I do ask that people be professional and good people in this business. "
Well this time, you've asked for plenty, and have said you were unwilling to help out because you didn't get it. I seriously do not know how you wrote that first sentence. First of all, you ask "your professional attitude assessment be followed", secondly, in this case, you ask for the shop to break their own rule and sell you an item, you failed to prove you qualified for.
Next, you demand the place let you be a secret agent man, a SPY, you came in there, you explained, under cover. Now, let's be fair, you may very well have purposefully displayed an ATTITUDE, as part of your "push procedure" to "gauge professionalism", even if it was subconscious, one certainly cannot fault the black haired woman for smelling something fishy all over you.
I walked into a business with the expectation that people would be professional. I was let down. I don't think it is unreasonable for people running a shop that sells parts to actually sell parts and perform customer service. I did not ask the shop to break their own rule, and I am pretty sure the "rule" as it was being communicated to me was being made up on the spot (I think charlie stated it better here but this is after the fact). At least that is the impression I was getting.
I did not go anywhere undercover or as a spy or anything else alleged. I went in as a customer and left as a dissatisfied one. Had I been a satisfied customer I would have opened my connections to charlie, in this case I did not. Had I come there with journalistic intentions alone I would have called ahead and made an appointment. This was a strange shop and I wanted to see how a walk in customer gets treated (which I was). Apparently walk in customers get treated poorly. Which is all I have said from the begining.
So let's see what the real deal was, actually. You get to come in under cover asa sneaky spy, insulting to say the least to any business, since it assumes you'll dig up some dirt, and boy do you feel vindicated, huh "little man", because the big shot didn't drop everything for you, apparently also failing "professional" under your "expectations".
Next, you must be able to make a purchase, this one, against the rules. Also, you must be able to pick the brain of mr bigshot in his meeting, but aren't satisfied with the secretary's answers she brought back, which you pretended you weren't given, but of course, we know she asked him, just not "deeply enough" when she repeatedly interrupted the meeting for "mr nobody".You also look around, at the time, assessing the "lazy slugs" (employees) you mentioned you saw.
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I came in as a customer. There was nothing sneaky about anything I did. I asked about parts, I had intention to buy. If I got good customer service I was going to tell others, if I got bad customer service I was going to tell others. It is basically what any cutomer is to any business. The fact that I could do more than the average customer does not mean I should get treated as such. As it stands I have done nothing more than the average modern bike shop customer with an internet connection would do. I was not there to dig up any dirt, contrary to what ever conspiracy theories you are concocting. This is business at a motorcycle shop, not who shot JFK or was the moon landing fake. I am not an investigative reporter, I am a dood with a bunch of bikes who occasionally writes stories about road trips, events, and cool mc stuff.
I was not talking to a "secretary". I don't know the position of the person I was talking to but it appeared that she may have been the shop manager. Either way she was presented as the "face" of the shop, ie the person who greets people when the come to the door. I didn't pretend anything. Verbaitum I was told a part was not going to be sold to me after I was told it was for sale. I was also told that other parts were not going to available to me. The general impression I got was that they were not interested in making a sale or small talk about the shop, or bikes, or really anything (including the weather). I was made to feel like I was a nusance and I should go away, and when you do that to customers eventually one will speak up.
So how does that work exactly for you ? You the one "always" so willing to "help out" ?
Let's see, you get to spy, you get to buy a tank, you get to make some money, and if you don't get what you want, you THREATEN the business with your post here, and make some leverage by sharing the information about "who you are" , in order to try to "get what you wanted and didn't acquire yet", or exact revenge, we'll have to wonder or see how that works out.
Maybe Charlie's "professional" e-mail you got says you can get the tank you wanted now, so "you'll play ball".
Maybe it was your attitude and what you were pulling, and maybe, you should have NEVER epxected the owner to be interrupted, multiple times, but then you're a hotshot, huh, even under cover, disgruntled, and "on a secret mission" , boy she had better smile at you, doesn't she know WHO YOU ARE ?!? (No, she thinks you're a liar, and don't have the bike, orange color named or otherwise, and golly, you came in a liar > disguised.< I wonder how she got that impression ?
Once again, In this situation I don't get to make any money. And I don't spy as I don't have any intention to do harm to someone when I go in his place. I think you have the wrong idea about a lot of stuff going on here and really have picked up the fantasy ball and ran with it. I was not there with the primary mission to ruin someones business as you allege. You obviously have some deep seated issues with the media and people that work in it which are causing you to read mountains into the mole hill that this is. Really it was a small transaction at a shop that went bad. I didn't get screwed, but I did feel insulted. The person behind the counter (actually it was a podium) didn't know me from adam and presumably this is how they treat all walk ups.
Yeah, seriously, amazing.
Gee, I'd bet he's willing to sell Charlie's his ultra rare tank, that is gathering 2 inches of dust in his basement, because then at least thousands of people could see it in Charlies display area, instead of it going to waste in a basement somewhere. Yeah, if "someone really needs it", like "he really needed another better, DUPLICATE tank".
Ultra rare? no. we coverd this. Rare, ok. I don't have a duplicate I have a #$%*ty looking K tank and an NOS F tank. I wanted a nice K tank. Obviously original paint isn't worth anything to you so I guess you don't see the value of what I was buying. Shocking, considering all the other hallucinations you see.
