Author Topic: Boosted Applications... Turbo/Supercharger  (Read 57602 times)

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ajracer

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Re: Turbo Applications... i.e. What Model Turbo & Draw System
« Reply #75 on: October 21, 2009, 08:57:02 pm »
any ideas on where I could get some appropriate gears to use to make a gear box to drive the turbo compressor idea?

Offline 754

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Re: Turbo Applications... i.e. What Model Turbo & Draw System
« Reply #76 on: October 22, 2009, 09:07:10 am »
 Rotrex, now makes a smaller one, around 5 inches in diameter, suitable for about 500cc to 1200cc bikes. I think (dont quote me ) 1500-2K range..

 Building a drive, would then be needed plus manifolds.
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Offline JLeather

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Re: Turbo Applications... i.e. What Model Turbo & Draw System
« Reply #77 on: October 22, 2009, 10:07:43 am »
You don't want to gear-drive a blower.  For one thing, it's really noisy.  For another, you've got no protection in the drive system if the engine backfires.  The procharger-style Drouin blower setup for the cb750 used a toothed belt like a timing belt for the first step from the crank to an intermediate pulley.  Second step was a ribbed smooth belt.  This was intentional to allow for slippage if necessary.  Almost every supercharger setup ever made was belt-driven.  Also, it's way easier to do a belt drive than a gear drive.

ajracer

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Re: Turbo Applications... i.e. What Model Turbo & Draw System
« Reply #78 on: October 22, 2009, 11:24:55 am »
good call. I just thought I could make a tight little bullet proof gear drive. I would need real strong gears, but maybe a little play and slipage would be better. I could probably use a series of different blower belts and pulleys. I should set a price goal and then double it.

Offline 754

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Re: Turbo Applications... i.e. What Model Turbo & Draw System
« Reply #79 on: October 22, 2009, 07:31:15 pm »
I thought you meant gear driving 1/2 a turbo, to speed it up.. basically what a Rotrex and Procharger is.. one side of a turbo, speeded up and run by a drive system.... less heat..
Maker of the WELDLESS 750 Frame Kit
dodogas99@gmail.com
Kelowna B.C.       Canada

My next bike will be a ..ANFOB.....

It's All part of the ADVENTURE...

73 836cc.. Green, had it for 3 decades!!
Lost quite a few CB 750's along the way

ajracer

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Re: Turbo Applications... i.e. What Model Turbo & Draw System
« Reply #80 on: October 22, 2009, 11:06:45 pm »
yeah thats right

Offline Tretnine

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Re: Turbo Applications... i.e. What Model Turbo & Draw System
« Reply #81 on: October 23, 2009, 07:38:26 am »
Posting to show interest. Curious to see how this all pans out.
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Offline BLUE71TURBO

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Re: Turbo Applications... i.e. What Model Turbo & Draw System
« Reply #82 on: October 24, 2009, 02:07:33 pm »
Gear driven turbo ?  Gear driven supercharger ?   FORGET IT !   The harmonic's would be really bad. The cost would be
way to exspensive.  Belt drive is the only way to go.   ;D


                             
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Offline 754

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Re: Turbo Applications... i.e. What Model Turbo & Draw System
« Reply #83 on: October 25, 2009, 12:01:29 pm »
What holds the intake manifold on?  Did you convert the head to studs?
Maker of the WELDLESS 750 Frame Kit
dodogas99@gmail.com
Kelowna B.C.       Canada

My next bike will be a ..ANFOB.....

It's All part of the ADVENTURE...

73 836cc.. Green, had it for 3 decades!!
Lost quite a few CB 750's along the way

ajracer

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Re: Turbo Applications... i.e. What Model Turbo & Draw System
« Reply #84 on: October 25, 2009, 01:25:05 pm »
nice blower. that almost looks like a home made blower or who makes it?

Offline 754

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Re: Turbo Applications... i.e. What Model Turbo & Draw System
« Reply #85 on: October 25, 2009, 01:27:02 pm »
Fageol... any length you need..
Maker of the WELDLESS 750 Frame Kit
dodogas99@gmail.com
Kelowna B.C.       Canada

My next bike will be a ..ANFOB.....

It's All part of the ADVENTURE...

73 836cc.. Green, had it for 3 decades!!
Lost quite a few CB 750's along the way

Offline BLUE71TURBO

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Re: Turbo Applications... i.e. What Model Turbo & Draw System
« Reply #86 on: October 25, 2009, 02:59:05 pm »
That is not my setup.  It's a picture i found on a web search. Fageol can make manifolds for different applications.
Fageol is the supercharger i'm going to use on my next project.   ;D   Billet cylinder+ 1200cc+supercharger+RC angle drive magneto =  major hard on !!  :o   :D
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Offline BLUE71TURBO

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Re: Turbo Applications... i.e. What Model Turbo & Draw System
« Reply #87 on: October 29, 2009, 12:00:02 am »
Since the topic is about turbocharging here, i thought i'd post some pictures of cb750's that have been turbo'd.........

         
           
           Nice black turbo cb750 with first log style header, ATP setup.

         

         

           Hondamatic cb750 turbo. Note location of fuel line and filter !  Way too close to hot exhaust side of turbo !!

         
         
         
         
           Pictures of my turbo'd cb750.

 
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Offline 754

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Re: Turbo Applications... i.e. What Model Turbo & Draw System
« Reply #88 on: October 29, 2009, 08:12:02 am »
That Manic/Matic has a Magnum Turbo on it..

 That is who I got my header pipe from, and with that I built my hhigh pipe.. great for ground clearance
Maker of the WELDLESS 750 Frame Kit
dodogas99@gmail.com
Kelowna B.C.       Canada

My next bike will be a ..ANFOB.....

It's All part of the ADVENTURE...

73 836cc.. Green, had it for 3 decades!!
Lost quite a few CB 750's along the way

Offline JLeather

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Re: Turbo Applications... i.e. What Model Turbo & Draw System
« Reply #89 on: October 29, 2009, 09:39:56 am »
The matic went through eBay a couple times.  It's not just a Magnum setup, but it was installed by Magnum and they built the motor too.  Had their stickers and stuff on it.  California company.

Offline Bamboozler

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Re: Turbo Applications... i.e. What Model Turbo & Draw System
« Reply #90 on: October 29, 2009, 11:19:12 am »
Thanks for posting the pics.  Your blue turbo CB is dead sexy, super clean and I applaud your polishing efforts!! :o
'78 CB750F Turbo, 101 rwhp @ 8 PSI (Project thread)
2007 Yamaha FZ1
'78 CB750F basket case crying for a resto
'78 XL250S
'78 Suk GS750E
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Re: Turbo Applications... i.e. What Model Turbo & Draw System
« Reply #92 on: October 30, 2009, 08:37:50 am »
looks like I deleted my own text,  link is to photos of a turbocharged dirt bike my brother did back in the day when we were kids.... He worked for a subaru dealer, and had ay too much time on his hands....
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Offline Bamboozler

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Re: Turbo Applications... i.e. What Model Turbo & Draw System
« Reply #93 on: October 30, 2009, 09:46:18 am »
looks like I deleted my own text,  link is to photos of a turbocharged dirt bike my brother did back in the day when we were kids.... He worked for a subaru dealer, and had ay too much time on his hands....

That looks like it would be fun project... I have a 78 Honda XL250S that I've eyed up from time to time while pondering how to plumb a turbo into. ;D  A few obstacles to overcome with a platform like that I would think.  Did the smaller displacement work out for your brother, did it pick up any gains in performance?
'78 CB750F Turbo, 101 rwhp @ 8 PSI (Project thread)
2007 Yamaha FZ1
'78 CB750F basket case crying for a resto
'78 XL250S
'78 Suk GS750E
Digital Ignition project (Project thread)

Offline Hasenkopf

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Re: Turbo Applications... i.e. What Model Turbo & Draw System
« Reply #94 on: October 30, 2009, 02:25:09 pm »
I seem to remember thinking he was going to blow it up,  and the hose kept popping out the top of the turbo, he WAS a nut though....
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Offline scartail

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Re: Turbo Applications... i.e. What Model Turbo & Draw System
« Reply #95 on: November 03, 2009, 01:37:43 pm »
any ideas on where I could get some appropriate gears to use to make a gear box to drive the turbo compressor idea?

Gear driven turbo ?  Gear driven supercharger ?   FORGET IT !   The harmonic's would be really bad. The cost would be
way to exspensive.  Belt drive is the only way to go.   ;D

like the man said... you would be building a supercharger (centrifigal) if you were dirving the compressor with gears.

added to the list of procharger, rotex.... you can check out vortech... http://www.vortechsuperchargers.com they make superchargers for smaller engines.

on a separate note, maybe the title of the thread should be simply "force induction"... turbos, superchargers, and NITROUS. :)
'89 Hawk GT, newly acquired, daily beater...
'76 CB550, was my daily beater... my cafe project...
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Offline Bamboozler

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Re: Turbo Applications... i.e. What Model Turbo & Draw System
« Reply #96 on: November 05, 2009, 10:22:56 pm »
After a few out of town delays and a bit of troubleshooting my turbo CB has finally got a taste of 8psi of boost! ;D I was having a problem with a lean out condition at the faint beginnings of where vacuum was transitioning to boost (WB A/F pegs at 18:1, more if the gauge would read it). After a sprint up the RPM band to about 5.5k-6k the bike would fall on its face stone cold dead. You had to let off the throttle and it would idle while you waited for the A/F to drop back down from the moon before you could produce power again and accelerate once more (throttling it did nothing). I increased the main jet sizes, then added a pitot tube, then a second pitot. Still there was not enough dynamic pressure being built in the bowls to overcome the pressure running through the carbs/venturis to force fuel through the main jets and into the air stream.  I mentioning to a friend that after the lean out test runs I was noticing fuel weeping from the overflow tubes... he asked why I didn't have the tubes plumbed to the intake like his turbo RX1.. the light turned on..  I had not come across this point being stress before, or not paid attention to it... I had a window open (over flow tubes) to let the dynamic pressure escape..  I routed the tubes to the intake and took for a spin and the fuel lean out was history; and I saw boost.

How does the cheap $220 small T3 turbo spool?  I'll have to admit defeat in this department and concede to what you others where noting about the T3 being too big.  From the two small blasts of 8 psi I gave it (no wideband at the moment, broke, being warrantied, get a new one tomorrow), I was seeing boost being picked up at around 6.5k and a full 8psi at around 7.5k (wastegate limit).  I don't know if this will improve at all with a proper A/F, as I don't know where its at during that boost, I'll pick back up when I have a WB, dial it in, and see what the end results are (barring no surprises/delays).  I can say that when I did hit 8psi that CB was starting to move like it had never moved before... It was a very smooth and rapid pick up, it was grand, and I can't wait to play some more. ;D

If this T3 is an ultimate flop and too laggy to be enjoyable I will replace it.  I took the time and ran the numbers on the compressor flow maps (shouldn't I've done that before starting fab...) for three possible replacements, GT1548 (w/o water hooked up), GT2052 (if a rectangle opening T25 turbine can be used), and a GT2056 (winner so far?). There is a T3 to T25 flange 3/4" thick adapter plate on ebay that I hope might work if it gives enough clearance between the turbine (hopefully smaller in size) and the CB's oil filter housing to make it a painless swap... Otherwise I may have to fab up another header with a T25 flange and save the T3 header for a big bore kit down the road... :)
'78 CB750F Turbo, 101 rwhp @ 8 PSI (Project thread)
2007 Yamaha FZ1
'78 CB750F basket case crying for a resto
'78 XL250S
'78 Suk GS750E
Digital Ignition project (Project thread)

Offline scartail

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Re: Turbo Applications... i.e. What Model Turbo & Draw System
« Reply #97 on: November 06, 2009, 12:08:16 pm »
That's awesome that you are making such good progress.
"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work." -- Thomas A. Edison

keep it up, you're helping the rest of us by leading the way.
'89 Hawk GT, newly acquired, daily beater...
'76 CB550, was my daily beater... my cafe project...
'72 Yamaha R5, newly acquired project... donated to my buddy...
'67 Suzuki T20, still working on her too... Currently in pieces...

Offline HavocTurbo

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Re: Turbo Applications... i.e. What Model Turbo & Draw System
« Reply #98 on: November 06, 2009, 02:13:05 pm »
Just for reference...

Hitach H-10B was the stock turbo used on the Kawasaki 750.

Produced 12psi when massaged to it's limit.

Crappy turbo but smaller than even a T2.

A T2 built 15psi with only an adjustable wastegate and the limit of power then was the stock pistons and head gasket.

On a stock SOHC 750 a T3 should be enormous for the smaller chambers. If you were bored out with lower compression to say 900cc..... You could probably run the power through lower in the RPM range.... but that might not work either considering you are using a blow through system.

I give you serious amounts of credit. Blow throughs are probably the hardest set-up to tune on an older motorcycle.

Oh... and I changed the Thred Title. ;)
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Offline Ricky_Racer

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Re: Boosted Applications... Turbo/Supercharger
« Reply #99 on: November 06, 2009, 05:23:00 pm »

With all the experience in this thread...

Obviously putting a GMC 6-71 on a CB750 is not going to be real productive, so does anyone know how to determine the proper size of a rootes type supercharger for a CB750?  My understanding is that some blowers are classed by their internal (impeller chamber) capacity.

Any thoughts, anyone?  Thanks.  RR

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