Author Topic: Rickman vs. Seeley  (Read 10560 times)

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Offline Ecosse

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Rickman vs. Seeley
« on: September 23, 2009, 12:03:17 am »
Although there were/are a number of frame builders it seems these are two of the most popular. These designs are (to my eye) similar enough to beg the question, which is better?

I'm thinking in terms of weight to stiffness, geometry, that sort of thing, but any relevant information would be helpful. Also, any comparisons to other specialty frame crafters.

Rickman                                                                                                                       

Seeley


I'm leaning towards Seeley for stiffness.
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Offline bucky katt

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Re: Rickman vs. Seeley
« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2009, 12:08:42 am »
it may be my imagination but it looks like the rickman might carry a bit more rake in the neck
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Offline voxonda

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Re: Rickman vs. Seeley
« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2009, 12:22:17 am »
I definitely prefer the Seeley, looking to the two upclose in 'life', the welding looks nicer. Rickman is heavier, did not weigh them but by lifting. For sure the swingarm is nicer too. Think the Seeley is stiffer by construction.
But overall like the both of them.

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Offline bryanj

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Re: Rickman vs. Seeley
« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2009, 09:23:29 am »
When they were in production it was more who could supply first rather than which one was better!!

Rickman was bigger firm and went on to make all the Honda fairings etc in UK Seely was mor racer orientated and had a great track rep
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Offline simon#42

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Re: Rickman vs. Seeley
« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2009, 02:26:48 pm »
the seeley frame is supposed to handle better , not having ridden one i cant really say why [if at all ]. allot of racers used to look down there noses at rickmans because their roots where in scrambling [ motocross to you youngsters ]  where as seeley had a race pedigree as long as your arm . for what its worth ive owned two seeley race bikes and hated them both !

Offline Ricky_Racer

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Re: Rickman vs. Seeley
« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2009, 08:57:29 pm »

Rickmans are purtier!   ;D  RR

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Offline Ecosse

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Re: Rickman vs. Seeley
« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2009, 09:31:01 pm »
the seeley frame is supposed to handle better , not having ridden one i cant really say why [if at all ]. allot of racers used to look down there noses at rickmans because their roots where in scrambling [ motocross to you youngsters ]  where as seeley had a race pedigree as long as your arm . for what its worth ive owned two seeley race bikes and hated them both !

wait a minute... i'm confused, you say you haven't ridden one (seeley?) but you've owned two. please dis-confuse me.  ???
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Offline Ecosse

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Re: Rickman vs. Seeley
« Reply #7 on: September 23, 2009, 09:46:51 pm »
some specs lifted from Axl's site for reference. Satanic Mechanic



Rickman

Wheelbase: 57.1-59.1" / 1450-1500mm (depending on swing arm)
Rake: 62°
Trail: 3.54" / 90mm

Seeley
Wheelbase: 56.5" / 1435mm
Rake: 62°
Trail: 3.7" / 95mm
Chain length (530): 98 links
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Offline Ecosse

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Re: Rickman vs. Seeley
« Reply #8 on: September 23, 2009, 09:47:57 pm »
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Offline bucky katt

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Re: Rickman vs. Seeley
« Reply #9 on: September 24, 2009, 12:11:12 am »
glad to see Axl's site still going
Of all God's creatures there is only one that cannot be made the slave of the lash. That one is the cat. If man could be crossed with the cat it would improve man, but it would deteriorate the cat.
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Offline MRieck

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Re: Rickman vs. Seeley
« Reply #10 on: September 24, 2009, 04:49:16 am »
 The drive chain adjustment system for the Seely is conventional and better IMO.
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Offline simon#42

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Re: Rickman vs. Seeley
« Reply #11 on: September 24, 2009, 10:06:23 am »
the seeley frame is supposed to handle better , not having ridden one i cant really say why [if at all ]. allot of racers used to look down there noses at rickmans because their roots where in scrambling [ motocross to you youngsters ]  where as seeley had a race pedigree as long as your arm . for what its worth ive owned two seeley race bikes and hated them both !

wait a minute... i'm confused, you say you haven't ridden one (seeley?) but you've owned two. please dis-confuse me.  ???

sorry ecosse  what i should have said was i have never ridden a seeley honda 750 which is what i assumed you where talking about .

Offline turboguzzi

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Re: Rickman vs. Seeley
« Reply #12 on: October 10, 2009, 11:31:37 pm »
simon, what was the issue with seeleys that bothered you? just curious.

not that one is on the cards for me but most fast G50's are on seeley frames no?

TG

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Re: Rickman vs. Seeley
« Reply #13 on: October 11, 2009, 09:56:35 am »
looks like you might be able to remove the top end w/the engine in the rickman frame -
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Offline greasy j

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Re: Rickman vs. Seeley
« Reply #14 on: October 11, 2009, 11:09:38 am »
maybe a stupid observation but the rickman has mounts for rear pegs.

Offline 754

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Re: Rickman vs. Seeley
« Reply #15 on: October 11, 2009, 11:41:08 am »
Rickman was marketed as a streetable kit, in fact they were often shown with stock pipes on them..

 Had a buddy I rode with sometimes, had a Rickman Kawi, his head and speedo  numbers were grossly inflated..

 One time we wound out in top gear, maybe ran out of room.. I asked hpw fast he went .. 125mph.. I said thats strange.. mine is reading 115 !
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Offline simon#42

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Re: Rickman vs. Seeley
« Reply #16 on: October 11, 2009, 02:39:26 pm »
simon, what was the issue with seeleys that bothered you? just curious.

not that one is on the cards for me but most fast G50's are on seeley frames no?

TG

hi TG
i had a suzuki TR750 engined seeley in the late 70s and although it was beautifully made it was very very slow steering . tried all the usual tricks , dropped the front , raised the back but nothing worked it still steered like an aircraft carrier . the only way i could get rid of it was to take a seeley TR500 in part exchange . this was a much better bike but i had an RG by then and it just got carted about ' just in case '  used it a couple of times but again it was difficult to turn . sold it to a bloke who only raced at the TT and he loved it , thought it was very stable and good over the bumps .
 seeley stopped making frames in the late 70s  all the fast G50s are using roger titchmarsh built replicas . i suspect [ but dont know for sure ] that the geometry of the modern ones is different [ pretty much everything else on them is ]


Offline GoatBaSS

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Re: Rickman vs. Seeley
« Reply #17 on: October 11, 2009, 04:32:08 pm »
Seely because..... ;D
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Offline john campling

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Re: Rickman vs. Seeley
« Reply #18 on: December 21, 2012, 04:31:33 am »
maybe a stupid observation but the rickman has mounts for rear pegs.
My Seeley has Pillion Pegs but the mountings are also used as exhaust (muffler) mounts 
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Offline Cabilao

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Re: Rickman vs. Seeley
« Reply #19 on: December 21, 2012, 04:42:05 am »
I loved my Rickman with Z900 engine. great for highspeed riding on the german "Autobahn".not so good in turns coz of the long wheelbase.had also passenger pegs and double seat.great bike.
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Offline Geeto67

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Re: Rickman vs. Seeley
« Reply #20 on: December 22, 2012, 01:11:07 am »
The rickman frames have too much rake out of the box, makes them an excellent road bike and a fast track (read: long track) racer but not a good short track bike. Basically any place a Ducati  bevel 750/900 SS would be good a rickman would be good as well. You still have to set them and that means mods that are beyond show room stock. I have a friend of a friend who races a rickman 750 Honda in AHRMA and WERA and his bike is competetive but he dropped the stock swing arm in favor of a stock one off a 75-76 750f. This opened up the wheelbase on the bike (he felt that the combination excessive rake and trail and short wheelbase was a little twitchy). Required no mods to the frame as the rickman pivot is wider than the stock 750, but it did require custom spacers and a longer pivot bolt, an you have to machine the spacers on a mill since the need to fit into the slot where the rickman chain adjuster is.

 As far as stiffness is concerned it is a non issue. Both frames are plenty stiff for racing work.

As far as both frames go, the rickman has a higher pain in the ass factor. The rickman frame uses a lot of proprietary parts (basically everything but the engine, sidecovers, exhaust, and electricals) which are really rare. Tracking down an original Rickman 42mm front end is going to be as much fun as a punch in the groin, and no you can't use a stock 750 front end. I have heard that there is a 38mm Ducati Pantah front end that might work but have you seen the prices on duc front ends? Also, the rickman frame is braised and nickel plated construction ( not welded). The plating is structural to the joint as it acts as a hardener for the joint. That means you have to keep it shiny and if it is a race bike you have to inspect the neck for cracks every season. Road bikes aren't ridden hard enough for the neck cracking to be an issue unless you crash it.

Since seelys are really hard to track down I assume you are considering the repop seely frames being made. Since it is a new frame with modern construction and materials and can be ordered and setup any way you want it def has a less of a pain in the ass factor than the rickman. My friend Kenny Cummings races a seely norton commando with one of these new frames and the bike is an unstoppable force to be reckoned with in vintage racing. If you are talking about an original seely then good luck finding one - it's easier to find a pecker on a cow than a useable old seely frame.
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Offline Geeto67

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Re: Rickman vs. Seeley
« Reply #21 on: December 22, 2012, 01:27:43 am »
simon, what was the issue with seeleys that bothered you? just curious.

not that one is on the cards for me but most fast G50's are on seeley frames no?

TG

The Team Obsolete g50 is an ex Al Gunter machine and I can't think of a faster non seely g50. Of course NOTHING on that bike is "stock" except maybe the engine cases.
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Offline bwaller

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Re: Rickman vs. Seeley
« Reply #22 on: December 22, 2012, 05:39:05 am »
"Pecker on a cow" hadn't heard that one in a while, thanks Geeto.