Topic: Ever heard of the 'Atheist's Nightmare?"

[Duke McDukiedook]

I believe in a higher power or the possible existence of one.

But he isn't the guy that's in all these books you see, those gods are man made creations made to control people's minds and actions.

My God is not a detroyer but a creator, a being that is above wrath, jealousy and destruction.

Can you say that about yours?

[BeSeeingYou]

I believe in a higher power or the possible existence of one.

But he isn't the guy that's in all these books you see, those gods are man made creations made to control people's minds and actions.

My God is not a detroyer but a creator, a being that is above wrath, jealousy and destruction.

Can you say that about yours?

I have absolutely no belief in a supreme being but really have no interest in defending or arguing the point.  Nothing anyone says will change my mind and I assume the same for others.  Having an interest in astronomy and scanning the sky with my telescope set me on that course long ago.  But Dukie I think your God sounds okay.  If this were a basic tenet of all religions maybe we would all be better off.

[Gordon]

It's always been my opinion that the harder someone tries to prove to other people that god exists, the more they're just showing a lack of confidence in their own beliefs, and they need the acceptance of others to help reinforce them.  

[Tretnine]

Mostly, I didn't post this to turn it into a discussion about supreme beings, though I got sucked into that myself. I just think the guy in the video is a loony.

[dpender836]

Religion is what is is, mans attempt at understanding spiritual things, we all know the different beliefs and their legalistic tactics, I suspect it is why so many people have tuned it out. Thankfully we are able to choose for ourselves. For me it takes way more faith to believe that everything has just evolved, it's much like buying a empty wooded lot and expecting the trees to grow into a house, just because you need one. Mystic 1 summed it up best, this place is way to percise and balanced, There was thought and balanced planning involved. Darwin is not in conflict with a creation theory, he just explains one part of it, Take our family dogs, they all come in different sizes, colors, and breeds, but they are all one species with the same amount of chromosomes, just try to cross a dog with a cat, it won't work obviously, different species are just that, different! The other thing is where are all the fossils or bones of these evolving species? we dig up dinosaurs bones all the time, but have yet to find evidence of evolution. And Bill 440 summed it up on miracles, if you've had one you'll know it, it doesn't take a weak person to believe in them, just someone with a open mind and a need.

[DammitDan]

Whoa whoa whoa...  A common misconception about the theory of macro evolution is coming forth in this thread...

Humans did not evolve from monkeys, apes, gorillas, or any other modern species.  We all evolved from a common ancestor.  Humans and apes are more like first cousins from an evolutionary standpoint...  Think of it like a family tree.

Your grandfather and grandmother had your father and his uncles/aunts (who had your cousins), and your father and mother in turn had you and your sisters/brothers.  Saying that man evolved from apes is like saying you were born from your cousin.  Unless you're from the deep South this doesn't make sense.  In reality it's more like humans and apes shared a common ancestor, just as you and your cousins share a common grandmother & grandfather.

This is what scientists are talking about in regards to a "missing link".  They know that both man and ape came from the same general ancestral lineage, but they haven't located a direct predecessor to both parties.  It's like doing a genealogy report to find out the most recent direct ancestor between you and your cousins.  You may know exactly who your great great great grandparents were, but somewhere down the line the history got lost and you don't know exactly who your great great grandparents were.

So the next time someone tells you that man evolved from monkeys/apes, just tell them they need to make sure their family tree doesn't have diagonal lines in it.

[Spanner 1]

Accept !...are you freakin' kidding me ?......try living in the " South "...Jeez !
 Here in Nashville it's not what religion you profess that's important, but what particular Church your a member of...wait now, not Church generic, but which Church specific ( what street address ) because THEY are the only ones going to heaven ( firmly believed)
What Church ??  Don't want to say, except it's Church of Christ ' modified ' as I call it......
American Christians are the only ones going to heaven and Cof C'ers in particular are at the head of the line...been TOLD it again and again....only country in the world you will find this......

[BeSeeingYou]

The other thing is where are all the fossils or bones of these evolving species? we dig up dinosaurs bones all the time, but have yet to find evidence of evolution. And Bill 440 summed it up on miracles, if you've had one you'll know it, it doesn't take a weak person to believe in them, just someone with a open mind and a need.

Well you could just go to a good science museum.  You might see of fossils of Homo Habilis, Homo Erectus, Cro-Magnon, and Neanderthal Man or at least some reproductions of the real ones.  Maybe even a saber tooth tiger though they proved to be a evolutionary dead end.  I know I have seen plenty of fossils of early ancestors of many different types of animals.  The dino's are what sells so that's what you see most of but the other stuff is there if you look. Not as many people seem to be interested in the early relatives of Fluffy and Spot.

[BeSeeingYou]

Accept !...are you freakin' kidding me ?......try living in the " South "...Jeez !
 Here in Nashville it's not what religion you profess that's important, but what particular Church your a member of...wait now, not Church generic, but which Church specific ( what street address ) because THEY are the only ones going to heaven ( firmly believed)
What Church ??  Don't want to say, except it's Church of Christ ' modified ' as I call it......
American Christians are the only ones going to heaven and Cof C'ers in particular are at the head of the line...been TOLD it again and again....only country in the world you will find this......

We have a few of "those" up north too but they are not as prevalent as in the south.  My wife grew up in on of them though she left it 25 years ago and is now a Buddhist.

[demon78]

Two points or questions. Aren't you guys compressing time as far evolution goes? Nothing happens quickly.
Next I wonder if "God" subscribes to "The Rat Runners Digest" or is on the editorial board?
Bill the demon.

[Inigo Montoya]

It is funny that there are people that still do not think evolution happens. Take for example bacteria. We created antibiotics to destroy bacteria and yet we now have strains, when before there were none, that are antibiotic resistant. It is because they evolved to resist these drugs.
What is funny though is people say were are created in gods image. Are they sure, I mean have they SEEN god? How do they know for sure? Maybe, just maybe, God intended for us to evolve? It is odd that these people will believe in a god they cannot see but will not believe in evolution because they cant see it? Isn't that a bit hypocritical? They will believe a being created EVERYTHING from NOTHING and yet cannot believe we may have been related to ape through a common ancestor. And the really sad thing is that no amount of scientific proof could sway them from this view. The DNA variance between humans and apes in only something like TWO percent. That we have some genetic code that is shared with birds would also point out that we came from a common ancestor eons ago.
I am no going to say god does not exist but I will say that maybe evolution was put in place by god.
The whole "everything is too perfect" line could still be used to prove evolution and animals evolve to their environment.

Why isn't it possible that god designed things this way? Because a book written by MAN says it cannot be so? And yet woman was created from man? With the exception of lillith.

[tinyrobot]

Maybe "God" should have told him the right way to eat a banana before he made that theory.

[Buber]

what really bothers me is that he is serious
in all the world the banana is gods link to prove himself?

What really scares me is that people see this video and they DON'T laugh. I honestly thought hat this is a comedian.

I think that this type of discussion is pointless, because an atheist is unlikely to become a believer just because of few posts, and it's exactly the same the other way. The only "conversion" that happen they happen due to personal rethinking of situation, etc.

I suggest to read Dawkin's "The God Delusion" book, and to think. Of course if you don't want, then don't read. I did read the Bible, read Dawkins, and even had church wedding (though I'm an atheist) - but i had given always a chance to various preachers to convince me. It didn't happened so far. So, give it a try. Read it. Try both sides' arguments.

[demon78]

I think that if we want to cool down the animosity that this particular discussion could would rake up we should only debate, argue it after taking the juice of at least 26 oz- 750 ml of the strongest tipple we like, which would put every one closer to the divine and make us all more tolerant to others point of views.
In other words I'm not sure that this a valid forum for such a divisive topic.
Bill the demon.

[BIKE]

Of course if you don't want, then don't read. I did read the Bible, read Dawkins, and even had church wedding (though I'm an atheist) - but i had given always a chance to various preachers to convince me. It didn't happened so far. So, give it a try. Read it. Try both sides' arguments.

This is the path I took when I was 16.  The road took me down many roads and I've formed my own beliefs due to it.  I suggest to anyone that is curious about others' beliefs to read and research them.

[Inigo Montoya]

I understand some choose to believe as it gives them comfort, such as bill. there is no problem with that at all as some choose not to believe for that same reason. It is the extremes on both ends. As always.

[ColinMc]

All I know is...now I really want a banana...and i'm not joking. I'm at work, and hungry for a banana...

[Inigo Montoya]

Make sure you open it like a banana. It works, I tried it!

[ColinMc]

The best part is that his PJ pants have monkeys on them...I can't wait to try eating a banana like that lol.

[Gordon]

I don't think I've ever seen a monkey or an ape peel a banana before eating it.  They always just eat the whole thing, peel and all.

[SOHC4ever]

Oh, my. SOHC4ums you disappoint me so.

There are a few things that we really need to get straight - especially Bill440, mysitc and everyone else with a bastardized understanding of science.

1. God, by the very definition, is supernatural. Etymologically, god is ABOVE NATURE. Ergo, any attempts to either use scientific principals to explain god's existence, or conflate god with nature ("so much natural order in the universe, there must be a creator!" etc.) is horribly wrong, without value, and an affront to science as we know it.

2. Science has been very good to you. It has given you a motorcycle, a food supply, central heating, the computer that you're typing on... you name it. In return, it asks nothing. You can blaspheme against science all day long and it won't threaten you with an eternity of damnation or anything else. However, if you wish to discuss or practice science, it is required that you abide by thing number

3. which is the Scientific Method. Adherence to this method is the reason that science has come so far as it has - the reason you have a motorcycle and we're not huddled around a fire doing a rain dance to avoid starving.
In brief, the method is about testing, repetition and review. All scientific principles are up for debate and review - including the theory of evolution! Anyone who wanted to take a serious academic run at it would find a bushel of biologists ready to hear him out. The trouble is; anyone determined to challenge the old man has never been quite as interested in science as they are in religion - and quite often collecting money from weak minded followers.

And it's for that reason that nobody takes the (usually American, why are they always American?) anti-evolution contingent seriously. It never fails to amaze me the mind numbing level of the zealots associated with creationism and intelligent design.

Science is interested in understanding how the world works. It has been very successful so far by not jumping to conclusions. Indeed, there is enormous beauty and wonder in nature and the universe. Carl Sagan is better at explaining how vast and fantastic it is than I am (see below). If we're ever going to get to the bottom of it - if there is any understanding to be had - it won't be through fairy tales and ghost stories. Those are the OPPOSITE OF KNOWLEDGE! THE ANTITHESIS OF UNDERSTANDING!

Theology is beautiful. I consider myself a man of faith and am not ashamed of my worship. I also value all freedom including freedom of religion. But for heaven's sakes (rimshot!) please don't be foolish enough to let your faith get in the way of knowledge.

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[Gordon]

Yes...

Science is based on testing and evidence.  Religion is based on faith.  We're capable of accepting both at the same time, but never the twain shall meet. 

[ColinMc]

Yes yes very good points...but more importantly...

Peeling a banana like that DOES work! mmmm...banana...

[sangyo soichiro]

        Some will say that there aren't any such things as miracles, like in the "Biblical days". I can tell you that I have No Doubt that there are indeed "Miracles" now days. Best example I know of, is my Daughter Karla.
...

Bill, in your description of the miracle you observed, I didn't see anything that was supernatural.   

All this knowledge that Doctors come up with, all these medical procedures, the way things have developed over the years (example, going from riding horse and in wagons, to cars and MOTORCYCLES). Just WHERE did all the knowledge come from? DID it just come out of the air? I don't think so!

I think it came from the hard work of a lot of people.  To not give these people credit is a disservice to them, don't you think? 





My former in-laws were terrible with money.  They will forever be broke.  I, on the other hand, worked very hard, and sacrificed a lot to save my money (low heat in the winters, no AC in the summers, drive that extra winter on bald tires, no cable TV, etc., etc., etc.).  Well, they needed money (they always did), and one time I gave it to them.

What do you think they said?

"Thank God!" 
"God provided for them." 
"By the power of God, now they could pay/buy blah blah blah."


Here I did everything right, they #$%*ed off, and God gets the credit.

How do you think that made me feel?

[mystic_1]

Well, they needed money (they always did), and one time I gave it to them.

What do you think they said?

"Thank God!" 
"God provided for them." 
"By the power of God, now they could pay/buy blah blah blah."

I guess that makes you God. 

"Thou art God, and I am God and all that groks is God."
- Valentine Michael Smith


mystic_1