Topic: Should I buy a different battery charger?

[elquenada]

I bought a Black and Decker battery charger from the local auto store.  It charges at 2/4/6 amps and it stops itself when charging is complete.  However, I've never used the thing because my bike is parked in a non-private garage so I cant venitlate the area by leaving the door open and I dont want my battery exploding in someones face when they walk into the garage carelessly smoking a cigarette.

So here's my question then. Does the use of a "trickle charger" require less precaution?  It seems from what Ive read that people just leave them on their bikes hooked up all the time (and I assume they dont just leave their garage door open 24/7).  Could I use a trickle charger in an unventilated garage?  And do I have to remove the battery when I charge up?

TIA

[Inigo Montoya]

Well A trickle is much slower but then I think less hydrogen is created. I do not think that the amount of hydrogen released though would be a danger. I don't know for sure though.

[BVCB650]

I use a Battery Tender JR in my garage, equiped with water heater and furnace and their ignition systems. No explosions yet. The area is just too big, and not air tight.

[Deltarider]

Do yourself a favour and see if you can get the Saito Procharger or similar product. It charges multi-stage  (I /U1 /U2) and desulfatizes lead plates in old batteries. Price is unbeatable. In Europe mailordercompany Louis offers them for € 39,95.
It’s also on offer at British mailordershop Getgeared for less than 50 pounds.
http://www.getgeared.co.uk/SAITO_Intelligent_ProCharger
It had very good press reviews and was the best in various tests.
I have bought this Saito charger myself. With a maximumcharge of 1Ah, it is gentle to my bikebattery. After charging to 100% it completes a test and will maintain a safe 13,8V. First surprise was that it revived an old battery that I had already given up. Then, much to my surprise, it was also capable to succesfully complete it's test-charge-test cycle on a 105Ah marine battery, be it that it took days.

http://www.louis.de/_20c477352fa0537660d4703941bf4bcab3/index.php?topic=artnr_gr&article_context=detail&grwgr=380&wgr=417&list_total=7&anzeige=0&artnr_gr=10003596

Best way: do a charge cycle, store your battery cool and repeat every month. There is no need to have the charger connected all the time. All these little consumers of electricity really add up. If you allow me: they've calculated that in all of Europe two coalburning powerplants work around the clock just to create the electricity for our doorbelltrafos! Mind you: they only ring a few seconds a day (if at all) and all the time valuable energy is lost in... heat. It's the same with all these adapters.

[elquenada]

thanks for the advice

[BVCB650]

Do yourself a favour and see if you can get the Saito Procharger or similar product. It charges multi-stage  (I /U1 /U2) and desulfatizes lead plates in old batteries. Price is unbeatable. In Europe mailordercompany Louis offers them for € 39,95.
It’s also on offer at British mailordershop Getgeared for less than 50 pounds.
http://www.getgeared.co.uk/SAITO_Intelligent_ProCharger
It had very good press reviews and was the best in various tests.
I have bought this Saito charger myself. With a maximumcharge of 1Ah, it is gentle to my bikebattery. After charging to 100% it completes a test and will maintain a safe 13,8V. First surprise was that it revived an old battery that I had already given up. Then, much to my surprise, it was also capable to succesfully complete it's test-charge-test cycle on a 105Ah marine battery, be it that it took days.

http://www.louis.de/_20c477352fa0537660d4703941bf4bcab3/index.php?topic=artnr_gr&article_context=detail&grwgr=380&wgr=417&list_total=7&anzeige=0&artnr_gr=10003596

Best way: do a charge cycle, store your battery cool and repeat every month. There is no need to have the charger connected all the time. All these little consumers of electricity really add up. If you allow me: they've calculated that in all of Europe two coalburning powerplants work around the clock just to create the electricity for our doorbelltrafos! Mind you: they only ring a few seconds a day (if at all) and all the time valuable energy is lost in... heat. It's the same with all these adapters.

Reads just like a gloried Battery Tender to me. It is designed to be constantly connected and does a 100% charged just like a Batt Tender Jr. Build some more nuke plants, and breath easy.

[Inigo Montoya]

And when you mutate that second nose, you can breathe even easier!

[BVCB650]

And when you mutate that second nose, you can breathe even easier!

More pods, more airflow.

[TwoTired]

I favor the 3 stage (or more) automatic battery chargers/tenders/maintainers.
Stage one is the recharge state, where the charger puts out its maximum power to bring the battery to near full charge.
Stage two is the  "sneak up" charge when the battery is slowly brought up to peak charge.
Stage three is the float state where the battery charge only holds a voltage level just slightly higher than a battery would have in the fully charged state.

Stage two and some of stage one is where there is any battery out gassing to be concerned about, and that risk is directly related to the max charge rate of the charger/tender/maintainer.

There are several on the market that do this job.  I happen to favor the Yuasa Smartshot 900.
http://www.economycycle.com/servlet/Detail?no=108
The Tender Jr. (and others) behave similarly to this charger.  But, even these are not true unattended maintainers, as they have no temperature compensation to automatically adjust for naturally occurring lower voltage levels during cold winter months, and they do not monitor the battery and reset charging if the voltage falls during months of storage.  So, the cheaper chargers/tenders/maintainers do not have temperature compensation (or reset), and the one listed above is no exception.  If the battery being maintained is always at "room temperature" these work well unattended for about 1 month.  Then the charger/tender/maintainer must be manual disconnected and reattached to begine the charge cycle all over again. 

Then there is this from:
http://www.yuasabatteries.com/motor_battery.php

"Actually, the float voltage should be temperature compensated between 13.1 volts at 90 degrees Fahrenheit to 13.9 volts at 50 degrees. Most of the very expensive high power multi-stage chargers for use on larger RV batteries are temperature compensated, but none of the motorcycle units are to my knowledge; they use a compromise float setting.
So, I can just set it and forget it, right? Well, not exactly. For one thing, you need to monitor the battery occasionally for correct fluid level (unless you own a sealed battery). Another problem is that of exercising the battery. Even if held at 13 volts, the unwavering voltage will allow the battery to eventually begin to sulfate. With most of these units, I recommend that you unplug the charger at least once every 60 days during seasonal storage. Allow the battery to rest for a couple of days, and then plug the charger in again. One charger that I’m aware of, the 1.5 amp Yuasa unit, has a feature found mainly on the aforementioned high priced RV chargers. It drops off the float charge and sends the battery through a complete new charge cycle every 28 days, thus eliminating the need to do that manually. There may be other motorcycle units that do that, but I’m not aware of any."

You can find out more about the 1.5 Yuasa charger here:
http://www.yuasabatteries.com/chargers.php

[BVCB650]

Huh? My Jr. kicks on and off to maintain a full state of charge. It starts full blast, as full blast as 2 amps can give you, then at 80%, trickles to top it off at 100%, than it keeps the battat 100% after that. It has fancy flashing lights that lets you monitor which state it is in.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
6. What makes the Battery Tender Plus battery charger different from other automatic battery chargers?

Many automatic battery chargers turn off when the battery voltage rises or the charge current falls to a preset level. Then after a period of time, when the battery self discharge characteristics have reduced its terminal voltage significantly, sometimes to the point where the battery has given up almost 90% of its stored charge, the charger will turn on and recharge the battery. This type of cycling will dramatically reduce battery life. The Battery Tender Plus battery charger does not turn off. It automatically switches to a safe float voltage level that keeps the battery charged and yet does not do any harm to the battery or cause any reduction in its useful life.

[Gordon]

Buena,
That part you quoted is referring to the Battery Tender Plus.  Are you sure it's the same for the Jr.?

I have the Jr., but I've never really looked into it because I don't leave it attached for long periods of time, so I didn't do any reading up. 

[BVCB650]

Buena,
That part you quoted is referring to the Battery Tender Plus.  Are you sure it's the same for the Jr.?

I have the Jr., but I've never really looked into it because I don't leave it attached for long periods of time, so I didn't do any reading up.  

Same same. Just smaller size. I put the plug in pigtail on mine fro easy on and off. I plug it in and leave it, but guilt forces me to take it off after a couple days. It isn't that cold here yet, although we were 28 the other morning.


Correction....they do have a slightly different output, but the brains of the things are the same.



       
Deltran Charger Product Summary
Most Popular Models Highlighted
Charger Models Output Voltage Output Current Output Power  Total Charging Software* / Battery Type AC Voltage / Frequency Input
(Volts) (Amps) (Watts)
Battery Tender Jr. 6V 0.750A 4.5W 3 Step STD & AGM 120 VAC 60 Hz
12V 0.750A 9W
Waterproof 800 12V 0.800A 10W 3 Step STD & AGM 100 to 240 VAC 50/60 Hz
(Automatic, Universal Input)
Battery Tender Plus 6V 1.25A 9W 4 Step STD & AGM or GEL 120 VAC 60 Hz
12V 1.25A 18W
International 
Battery Tender 12V 1.25A 18W 4 Step STD & AGM 100 to 240 VAC 50/60 Hz
(Automatic, Universal Input)
International BT
4-Bank 12V 1.25A 72W 4 Step STD & AGM 100 to 240 VAC 50/60 Hz
(Automatic, Universal Input)
Multiple Output Shop Chargers:
5 & 10 Bank 12V 2.0A  144W /    288W 4 Step STD & AGM 120 VAC 60 Hz
Portable Power Tender 12V 5.0A / 2.5A   70W /  35W 4 Step STD & AGM 100 to 240 VAC 50/60 Hz
(Automatic, Universal Input)
Power Tender Plus, Vibration Resistant, Waterproof (VRW) 12V 5A 70W 4 Sep STD & AGM 120 VAC 50/60 Hz
24V 2.5A 70W
High Frequency SuperSmart Chargers, Golf Cart Style & Industrial with Deltran Adaptive Charging (DAC) and Emergency Vehicle Chargers. 12V 20A 300W 4 Step GEL, or
5 Step STD & AGM 120 or 240 VAC 50/60 Hz
(Factory Selectable)
24V 20A 600W
36V 15A 600W
48V 10A 600W
High Power, Heavy Duty Portable, 
DV Chargers DVS-20 Single Output 12V 20A 300W 4 Step GEL, or
5 Step STD & AGM 120 VAC 60 Hz
DVD-40
Dual Output 12V 20A 600W
*Note:  All Deltran battery chargers will charge all types of lead acid batteries: either flooded (standard STD), sealed maintenance free Absorbed Glass Mat (AGM), or sealed maintenance free gelled electrolyte (GEL) batteries.  However, for optimum battery performance in deep cycle applications (for example, running a trolling motor), it is best to chose the Deltran charger that has the charging software specifically designed for the battery type.  Fortunately, since the technical staff at Deltran has developed charging software that works equally well for both STD & AGM batteries, the only choice to be made is between 2 models: either 

[elquenada]

great info.  i'll have to give this a little more thought it seems.

[TwoTired]

Like motorcycle designs, all charger/tenders/maintainers have their advantages and weakness.  The Deltrans are no different.
I have not tested these in particular, mind you.  So, I have to go on their advertising published specs.

However, I see no manufacturer statements that all their chargers actually have the same "brains". (Even if they do share the same modes of operation.)

The automatic reset to charge mode is based solely on a voltage drop (the claim is that it needs a load to do so.)
http://batterytender.com/product_info.php?products_id=4

However, to prevent sulfation and possible "boil out" due to overcharging, the battery needs a "rest period" where the chemicals normalize without electrical stimulus applied.  And, they need to compensate for the ambient temperature, in order to apply the proper voltage trip point for the "brain" to make the correct decisions.  I don't see either feature in the Jr.   Therefore, I still classify it as one that still needs monitoring over long (more than a month) time period of operation.

The Plus Version states it is temp compensated.  So, those in hot or really cold climes would be better served with this type.  But, you will still need to do the once a month disconnect/rest/reconnect routine.

I believe I'm going to invest in the Yuasa Automatic 12V 1.5 Amp Battery Charger (YUA1201501)  (If I can find it)
http://www.yuasabatteries.com/chargers.php#Order
http://www.chaparral-racing.com/Chaparral/productr.asp?pf_id=321-2100Y&gift=False&HSLB=False&mscssid=9A7ECC286448452D9E8B71E31A82BEDA

Where I live, the temp extremes are just not that severe to require temp compensated chargers.  And, I'm too forgetful to remember to cycle chargers once a month.   

[BVCB650]

I think they do give the battery a "rest" period. On mine, the light is red when it is getting after it. It switches to flashing green when it is 80% or better, and glows steady green when it is at 100%. I don't think it kicks on again unless the charge gets back below 80%.

[the technological J]

you know i learned a lot by reading this but im not sure if u missed something like u dont own screw drivers but why not remove the battery and charge it in an area u feel safer...(like above a gas stove{jk})

[BVCB650]

It's not like a small bike battery on a trickle charger is producing enough gas to fill the Hindinburg.

[elquenada]

yes well I had thought of bringing the battery somewhere else but I dont really have any options.  I live in a 1 bedroom apt.  Its either the garage or the fire escape. also, let me clarify Im not araid of the garage blowing up; there are some vents and it is a pretty large space.  What I dont want to do is injure someone in my building who is unaware of how to behave around a charging battery.

[BVCB650]

yes well I had thought of bringing the battery somewhere else but I dont really have any options.  I live in a 1 bedroom apt.  Its either the garage or the fire escape. also, let me clarify Im not araid of the garage blowing up; there are some vents and it is a pretty large space.  What I dont want to do is injure someone in my building who is unaware of how to behave around a charging battery.

I think they tell you that as a disclaimer. Sort of like don't smoke when you fill up your car at the gas station. I think you would be having to try to blow yourself up to do it, unless you were in a small, sealed up space.

[elquenada]

thats kind-of what I was thinking but I guess i didnt want to assume and hurt somebody. 

[TwoTired]

Lead acid wet cell batteries liberate Hydrogen and Oxygen in "interesting" quantities when the battery is over charged.  That is, it has converted all the chemicals it can during the recharge process and then electrolysis takes over to separate the two elements normally combined in H2O.  You see a battery "Bubbling" during charge and you'd best mind your Ps and Qs about spark and open flame about the battery.  They can and have exploded.  The automatic chargers we have been discussing won't normally cause such "interesting" quantities when all is working well.  But, since the chargers aren't all knowing, some might cause an overcharge situation if say a single cell was shorted in the battery.   This would cause a low voltage reading and the charger might "think" the battery is simply depleted, and aggressively try to get the voltage up.  The remaining cells would then be overcharged and produce Hydrogen and Oxygen in quantities that can be explosive.

Is anything perfectly 100% safe?

No.

 Life is risk, or at least risk management.

[BVCB650]

^ Very true, but the Jr charges at what 0.75A? But in theory.......

[Gordon]

^ Very true, but the Jr charges at what 0.75A? But in theory.......

We're big on theory around here, so it's nice to see you getting with the program.

[BVCB650]

^ Very true, but the Jr charges at what 0.75A? But in theory.......

We're big on theory around here, so it's nice to see you getting with the program.

Well, when I'm surrounded by a bunch of monkeys, I soon learn how to peel a banana. J/K