Topic: Quick general all CB's running light question

[SKTP]

Do all the CBs have running lights in the front?

I was looking at signals on ebay and just wanted to make sure all year's fronts are wired up for both flashers and running lights?

Thanks for any info...I'm guessing they all do but am basing this on nothing!

[BVCB650]

They do if they're street legal.

[1974CB750rider]

Just some useful info, the headlight is the only thing needed to be street legal. Not all front turn signals on bikes have running lights. My buddy's 73 kaw 900 Z1 is a good example of that. In my state turn signals are not actualley required on motorcycles, although I do run them. I'm 37 now but when I turned 16 and got my motorcycle license I used a 73 CB350F that had been cafed out with no signals. I just had to use hand signals during the test. Now don't get me wrong I'm older and wiser now and prefer to have turn signals and sometimes if I got someone really close on my tail I use a hand signal as well.

[TwoTired]

Do all the CBs have running lights in the front?

No.  But, I think they all did beginning in 1974. 

[HondaMan]

The dual-filament front running lights first appeared on the 1973 CB750K3 and CB550 models. Before that, they were just turn signals up front.

[Gordon]

They do if they're street legal.

So my K1 isn't street legal?

[TwoTired]

The dual-filament front running lights first appeared on the 1973 CB750K3 and CB550 models. Before that, they were just turn signals up front.

I looked in the Honda shop manuals for both bikes, as well as the Honda Motorcycle Identification Guide by American Honda.

In the 73 model year, there was no 550 just the 500 k2.  The wire diagram shows single filament front bulbs.
For the 750, the K4 wire diagram is the first to show dual filament front bulbs.  I don't see a K1-K3 wire diagram in the Honda shop manual.  Did I miss it? Is it different from the K0?

Certainly, the 74 model year bikes could have been sold in late 73.

[KeithB]

My '72 has just signals on the front but the '78 has running lights as well.

[BVCB650]

They do if they're street legal.

So my K1 isn't street legal?

Couldn't tell ya. You might be able to grandfather  opt out of the current regs, but a headlight and brakelight is need unless you bike is older than Methusala.

[HondanutRider]

As a related question: does anyone know when stateside motorcycles were allowed to actually have turn signals?

I know that the first models in 1959-60 of the C100 Super Cub had signals, for instance.  But, that was changed to the CA100 which was unique for the US market.  That version had no signals as they apparently were not allowed in the US.  The same for most other Hondas of the era, such as the CA77 and CA95 - they all didn't have turn signals and they were only in the US.  In other countries (e.g. Canada) these models were known as C77 and C95 respectively, and they had signals.  Some models, like the CB77 (except for some rare variants) and CB160, never had signals installed - in all country market areas.  When the SOHC4's first appeared in 1969, turn signals were apparently allowed as they all seem to have them.

So, does anyone know the actual time frame that turn signals were not allowed on motorcycles sold in the USA?  (This was likely a DOT regulation.)

[HondaMan]

The dual-filament front running lights first appeared on the 1973 CB750K3 and CB550 models. Before that, they were just turn signals up front.

I looked in the Honda shop manuals for both bikes, as well as the Honda Motorcycle Identification Guide by American Honda.

In the 73 model year, there was no 550 just the 500 k2.  The wire diagram shows single filament front bulbs.
For the 750, the K4 wire diagram is the first to show dual filament front bulbs.  I don't see a K1-K3 wire diagram in the Honda shop manual.  Did I miss it? Is it different from the K0?

Certainly, the 74 model year bikes could have been sold in late 73.

You could be right about the year/model of the 550, TT: our shop was selling the 550 by November of 1973, so it may have been the '74 model.

The 750 wiring was the same from the K0 thru K1.

At the K2, the turn signal beeper was added and the indicator lights moved to the "dashboard" that was labelled "FLASH OIL NEUT BEAM", but the wiring color coding remained the same as for the K0-K1, with the beeper connected to the GRAY wire from the turn flasher and the BLACK wire for power.

Beginning in the K3, there were 3 rapid wiring changes between 7/72 build and 6/73 build: the first ones had no way to turn off the headlight, and the front lights did not have running lamps.
The second one changed the dashboard to "TURN OIL NEUTRAL FLASH", added the front running lamps, added the clutch switch for the starter interlock (along with the interlock module under the seat) and the 3 separate fuse circuits, split the headlight switch into ON/OFF on the right and HI/LO on the left, and added a 4-wire starter solenoid that opened the headlight's fuse circuit when starting. It also had a kickstand switch that required, like the clutch switch, that the engine be in NEUTRAL or else the kickstand had to be down to make the starter work (we bypassed every one of these and removed them: dangerous in traffic, IMO). This one was very short-lived: it was replaced in about 1 month with the more commonly-found one where the START button became complex: it toggles a flip-flop contact that diverts the power from the headlight to the starter solenoid (back to 2 wires again) when the button is pressed.

This last version remained the same until the K6.

(See the ELECTRICAL chapter in my upcoming book.  )

[Gordon]

They do if they're street legal.

So my K1 isn't street legal?

Couldn't tell ya. You might be able to grandfather  opt out of the current regs, but a headlight and brakelight is need unless you bike is older than Methusala.

He's asking about running lights, not the headlight. 

[BVCB650]

They do if they're street legal.

So my K1 isn't street legal?

Couldn't tell ya. You might be able to grandfather  opt out of the current regs, but a headlight and brakelight is need unless you bike is older than Methusala.

He's asking about running lights, not the headlight.  

School me on running lights. In a car, are they the daytime lights that are always on in some? On mine, my headlight is always on, and then I have a high beam selector like dim and bright. Tailight is also always on. What am I missing? Since most motorcycles use the low beam as a DRL, don't all or most have headlights? Does yours have a headlight that is always on or do you have to turn it on manually?

[Operator]

My '73 750 K3 has the running lights up front but it also has the switch to shut the lights off, including the headlight.

It is actually really cool when you are on a familiar stretch of highway on a warm moonlit night, to kill the lights and just cruise along in the dark for a bit.

[j squared]

They do if they're street legal.

So my K1 isn't street legal?

Couldn't tell ya. You might be able to grandfather  opt out of the current regs, but a headlight and brakelight is need unless you bike is older than Methusala.

He's asking about running lights, not the headlight.  

School me on running lights. In a car, are they the daytime lights that are always on in some? On mine, my headlight is always on, and then I have a high beam selector like dim and bright. Tailight is also always on. What am I missing? Since most motorcycles use the low beam as a DRL, don't all or most have headlights? Does yours have a headlight that is always on or do you have to turn it on manually?

By running lights I think they mean turn signals with a dual filament bulb which is on all the time with the headlight and has the second filament for the flasher.  Just like a car's parking lights.

[BVCB650]

I see. Typically, running lights are just a full time version of low beam headlights on a bike. I have seen some Harleys with other lights. The newer ones that actually flash drive me nuts.

[754]

My 73 had single filament blinkers.
 I thought the duals came in for Canada in 75, could be wrong on that.

[1974CB750rider]

I refer to running lights as to the front turn signal that stay on all the time then blink when yuou turn your blinker switch on. My 74 has them and also has an on/off switch for the headlight.

[SKTP]

thanks for all the replies...I bought these;



on ebay and play on powder coating them black and blacking out the lenses the transparent black paint...they are smaller than my 78750K light and I think (assuming they fit) will look period (sort of) and pretty sweet...

edit* I don't have them in my hands yet, hence the question earlier