Author Topic: Buying a NEW 3 year old helmet?  (Read 8631 times)

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Offline Deltarider

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Re: Buying a NEW 3 year old helmet?
« Reply #25 on: October 09, 2009, 10:36:26 AM »
Please explain why the law that forces you to wear an approved helmet, does not force you to renew it after x years. I repeat: I've never heard of accidents where injuries or death was to blame on a helmet that was aged. Don't you think we would have read about it?
Oh and yes, I value my head. I use it.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2009, 10:41:55 AM by Deltarider »
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Offline Gorms

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Re: Buying a NEW 3 year old helmet?
« Reply #26 on: October 09, 2009, 10:54:26 AM »
The examples by those who have had the styrofoam disintegrate are from helmets that were worn for a few years or more.  I would imaging that the heat from your head (70% of the bodies heat loss), the heat/UV from the sun, and maybe hair products have started the disintegration of the foam.  The helmet I bought was in a climate controlled warehouse since new.  The date on the helmet is 4/2006.  I paid $70 for this $190 scorpion exo helmet.  So regardless of the remaining lifespan, I got a deal.  They have more if anyone is interested.  Also exo-700's for $109.



skip to 2:50 for a better picture

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Offline ColinMc

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Re: Buying a NEW 3 year old helmet?
« Reply #27 on: October 09, 2009, 11:01:52 AM »
I just don't understand the logic...I value my head way too much. It's just not worth the risk to me. I don't want even a doubt in my mind that if I go down that my helmet might not protect me the way it should FULLY.

Is it really that big of an investment to buy a new helmet every FIVE years...by then it's probably pretty worn out anyways.

Now I understand the debate is about a 3 year old NEW helmet...but to me it's still not worth the risk to save some dough.

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Offline Gorms

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Re: Buying a NEW 3 year old helmet?
« Reply #28 on: October 09, 2009, 11:11:29 AM »
So you're saying that you would not feel comfortable wearing a 3 year old NEW helmet?  So to feel safe you replace your helmet every 2 years?  I think thats a littel over the top.

Offline ColinMc

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Re: Buying a NEW 3 year old helmet?
« Reply #29 on: October 09, 2009, 11:23:18 AM »
No, but I wouldn't BUY a 3 year old new helmet...if i'm spending money on a new helmet i'm buying a NEW helmet.

If i'm getting a 3 year old helmet i'd probably wear it for one or two years tops...so was it really worth the money saved? I don't know...that I can't answer since i've never bought a leftover new helmet. So unless you are getting it for more than 60% off...

I don't know, i'm all for saving money, but it's the one area i've been taught NEVER to skimp...so to each their own. That's just what I do is all.
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Offline Deltarider

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Re: Buying a NEW 3 year old helmet?
« Reply #30 on: October 09, 2009, 11:24:50 AM »
Maybe you can advise us when to renew our safetybelts?
Any legislation on that?
Not where I live.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2009, 11:31:19 AM by Deltarider »
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Offline ColinMc

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Re: Buying a NEW 3 year old helmet?
« Reply #31 on: October 09, 2009, 11:28:05 AM »
You won't need a car anymore if you crash on your bike with a 20 year old helmet on...you can just be strapped into the bed in a coma in the hospital.

See how easy it is to compare apples to oranges with brain damage. ]

EDIT: Oh and another thing you ever put "Brand new" but old brake pads on a car or bike? See how long they end up lasting...but they are brand new right? Should be fine...no big dael I saved a few bucks.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2009, 11:31:20 AM by ColinMc »
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Offline voxonda

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Re: Buying a NEW 3 year old helmet?
« Reply #32 on: October 09, 2009, 11:30:26 AM »
I did 20 years with the same Röhmer helmet and felt comfortable. When I informed five years after the purchase about the effect of UVlight, the shop (and importer by the way), that could easily have sold me a new one, explained the effect of UVlight was exaggerated on purpose by the industry. Up to this day, I've not seen proof of helmets that failed due to aging. Not any. Besides, most of the time my helmet is in the garage.

I honestly do not think that you believe it yourself.
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Offline lordmoonpie

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Re: Buying a NEW 3 year old helmet?
« Reply #33 on: October 09, 2009, 11:33:30 AM »
Please explain why the law that forces you to wear an approved helmet, does not force you to renew it after x years. I repeat: I've never heard of accidents where injuries or death was to blame on a helmet that was aged. Don't you think we would have read about it?
Oh and yes, I value my head. I use it.
Hey Deltarider - I think that wearing that helmet for the last 20 years has resulted in UV damage to your brain - it's delaminating and you don't even know it!  :D
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Offline ColinMc

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Re: Buying a NEW 3 year old helmet?
« Reply #34 on: October 09, 2009, 11:34:50 AM »
Tell ya what Deltarider...you send me some Kruid Noten, and some Stroopwafels and i'll shut up  ;D


mmm, I miss dutch candy and food...

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Offline lordmoonpie

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Re: Buying a NEW 3 year old helmet?
« Reply #35 on: October 09, 2009, 11:37:27 AM »
The examples by those who have had the styrofoam disintegrate are from helmets that were worn for a few years or more.  I would imaging that the heat from your head (70% of the bodies heat loss), the heat/UV from the sun, and maybe hair products have started the disintegration of the foam.  The helmet I bought was in a climate controlled warehouse since new.  The date on the helmet is 4/2006.  I paid $70 for this $190 scorpion exo helmet.  So regardless of the remaining lifespan, I got a deal. 

Gorms - I think your approach is sensible, you paid a proportionate price for the life left in the helmet. Makes good logical sense to me - good on ya!
1994 Ducati 888 SP5
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Offline Deltarider

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Re: Buying a NEW 3 year old helmet?
« Reply #36 on: October 09, 2009, 11:39:12 AM »
Quote
I honestly do not think that you believe it yourself.

Have you seen any reports, any studies that show statistics of injuries or death caused by aged helmets? Any?
Please answer why the same law that forces you to buy an approved helmet does not
force you to renew it after x years, where as for brakes and tires there are all sorts of rules.
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Offline voxonda

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Re: Buying a NEW 3 year old helmet?
« Reply #37 on: October 09, 2009, 12:35:16 PM »
Tell ya what Deltarider...you send me some Kruid Noten, and some Stroopwafels and i'll shut up  ;D


mmm, I miss dutch candy and food...



Still have some stroopwafels in my office for you, just never got to sent it over.

Rob
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Offline voxonda

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Re: Buying a NEW 3 year old helmet?
« Reply #38 on: October 09, 2009, 12:45:56 PM »
Quote
I honestly do not think that you believe it yourself.

Have you seen any reports, any studies that show statistics of injuries or death caused by aged helmets? Any?
Please answer why the same law that forces you to buy an approved helmet does not
force you to renew it after x years, where as for brakes and tires there are all sorts of rules.


Please do not get me started, have seen a lot of misery out there. On the track and off. It is, excuse me for saying this, stupid to hang on to something someone said to you 15 years ago, did you or him proved the "industry" wrong?. Thanks to a big lobby in wearing good riding gear, helmets included, that saved hundreds of lives of fellow bikers who did buy a good helmet.
Have a nice crash and let your insurance know, if you still can, that you wore a 20 year old helmet. Hope you earned enough to pay all the hospital bill's.
Just have it your way, no prob.

A fellow dutchman.
Better sorry for failing then for the lack of trying.

Offline Deltarider

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Re: Buying a NEW 3 year old helmet?
« Reply #39 on: October 09, 2009, 01:46:38 PM »
Too bad I disposed of my old helmet. We could have taken it to the test. I bought a new helmet 2 years ago. This may surprise you: not in the package, not in the booklet that came with it, not in the helmet itself is there any warning about aging by UV-light. I read Dutch, German, English and French motormagazines. Although - long ago - some have echoed what the industry then wanted you to believe, since 1979 they have not produced one article - not one - that has shown, with pictures, the dangers of aging by UV-light, and - believe me - they have published on any aspect of motorcycling you can think of. Ofcourse, everything ages by UV-light, but it will not deteriorate your helmet before the lining is long, long gone.  
« Last Edit: October 09, 2009, 11:42:45 PM by Deltarider »
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Offline Gorms

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Re: Buying a NEW 3 year old helmet?
« Reply #40 on: October 09, 2009, 02:03:30 PM »
I just went through all the reading material that came with the helmet and no where does it state any lifespan or suggested replacement time for the helmet.  You would think that the manufacturer would be the first to suggest this because it makes more money for them. 

Offline dilbone

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Re: Buying a NEW 3 year old helmet?
« Reply #41 on: October 09, 2009, 02:09:19 PM »

EDIT: Oh and another thing you ever put "Brand new" but old brake pads on a car or bike? See how long they end up lasting...but they are brand new right? Should be fine...no big dael I saved a few bucks.

So you're comparing a helmet to brake pads????

So I shouldn't pick up a set of brake pads that have been sitting on a shelf for a couple of years in the box?????  So now brake pads are UV sensitive?  Do you ask how long those pads have been on the shelf when you buy them?  I don't get the analogy

To each his own with the helmet thing.  My full face helmet is 8 years old and I'm in no hurry to go out and buy another one.  Although I might replace it at some point here I feel I'd be putting my life more in danger by wearing my newer half helmet than my 8 year old full face.  Let's not base our safety on what the DOT says.  
My grandpa used to race midgets and super modifieds when I was a kid.  I picked up and looked at one of his old helmets a while back and wow was it nasty.  Probably had 30 years of use out of it.  Do I think that eventually they should be replaced? absolutely...but 5 years, I'm not buying it...

Offline BobbyR

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Re: Buying a NEW 3 year old helmet?
« Reply #42 on: October 09, 2009, 03:45:49 PM »
5 years is a bit short. Two part resin based materials do continue to cure over time and shrink. This is why body fillers ill come loose over time. This takes far more than 5 years.
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Offline myhondas

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Re: Buying a NEW 3 year old helmet?
« Reply #43 on: October 09, 2009, 07:22:32 PM »
Well,
I am totally confused here. I know that the shells are made of different materials like polycarbonate, fiberglass, and even Kevlar. All seem to have a long lifespan until they have a high impact event. I was under the impression that the dot lifespan was due more to the interior shock absorbing materials. As far as I know, all three shells are good at what they do. The interior materials are what deteriorate to lower the safety standard. I plan to purchase a new helmet soon. I am looking at the HJC SY-MAX II. It is a fiberglass shell. I am trying to find out the interior material prior to the purchase. So....what is the real story? What is it that one should consider besides the price. I consider I have a $1000.00 head but only a $300.00 wallet. So I want the best that I can afford and with the functions that make the lid worth having. I hear people say they only use Bell or another brand and would not have a china made helmet. But I have had various helmets and the Bell saved my skull back in 75 in my first accident. But I was wearing a HJC in May in my last accident. Both did their job and saved my minuscule brain. Why I like the sy-max is the features of a composite and the flow thru ventilation, sunshield, and interior liner. So what to do? Not sure which way to go.
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Offline Gorms

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Re: Buying a NEW 3 year old helmet?
« Reply #44 on: October 09, 2009, 07:42:22 PM »
Well this is my first helmet (and motorcycle of course) and I read some good and bad things about HJC.  Looking for an entry level helmet, I found that the Scorpion line is higher quality at an identical or cheaper price.  Every review/comparison between the two companies put the Scorpion ahead of the HJC.  Being my first helmet I have nothing to compare this Scorpion to but I can tell you it feels very well made, fits very well, and the anti-fog REALLY IS anti-fog.

Offline myhondas

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Re: Buying a NEW 3 year old helmet?
« Reply #45 on: October 09, 2009, 08:04:04 PM »
the problem with Scorpion is they don't seem to make a modular helmet. I like a full face, but not putting one on. Open face easy to get on, but not the protection of a full face. So far, HJC is one of the few modular with a built in sunshield.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2009, 08:05:47 PM by myhondas »
1974 CB 750 K4 SHOWROOM
1974 CB 750 K4 IN PART-OUT PROCESS (my original bike)
1965 C100 CUB 50 (PIT BIKE)
1996 VF 750 CD daily rider
1983 VF 1100 V65 Magna in restoration process
SOHC# 5105 11228

Offline ColinMc

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Re: Buying a NEW 3 year old helmet?
« Reply #46 on: October 09, 2009, 08:24:51 PM »

EDIT: Oh and another thing you ever put "Brand new" but old brake pads on a car or bike? See how long they end up lasting...but they are brand new right? Should be fine...no big dael I saved a few bucks.

So you're comparing a helmet to brake pads????

So I shouldn't pick up a set of brake pads that have been sitting on a shelf for a couple of years in the box?????  So now brake pads are UV sensitive?  Do you ask how long those pads have been on the shelf when you buy them?  I don't get the analogy


I'm comparing them to 5 or even 10 year old NOS brake pads...hell even 3 years. We purge any pads that are more than 3 years old out of our inventory, they are sent back to the manufacturer, and are required by law to be recycled and can be made into new brake pads but not simply reboxed. We do this for liability reasons...we lose money on it, so does the manufacturer...so i'm guessing we do it for a reason...right? Plus I have used old stock pads on a bike before, they wear out MUCH quicker and sometimes even fail completely after going through a few heat cycles. So yes I am comparing a helmet which "wears" out over time even if not in use, to brake pads which "wear" out even if not in use over a period of time.
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Offline 754

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Re: Buying a NEW 3 year old helmet?
« Reply #47 on: October 09, 2009, 09:24:57 PM »
Man you guys worry a lot..

 I cant remember what brand my helmet is, but I would be real suprised if there was any de-lamming going on, and it is  3 decades old..

  Funny  how no helmet maker , ever guarantees a helmet to work and do its job..

  I am staying away from them full face jobs, I have seen how it makes them  guys ride................................. ;).. lots of people dying with them things on...
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Offline lordmoonpie

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Re: Buying a NEW 3 year old helmet?
« Reply #48 on: October 10, 2009, 04:06:09 AM »
Too bad I disposed of my old helmet. We could have taken it to the test. I bought a new helmet 2 years ago. This may surprise you: not in the package, not in the booklet that came with it, not in the helmet itself is there any warning about aging by UV-light. I read Dutch, German, English and French motormagazines. Although - long ago - some have echoed what the industry then wanted you to believe, since 1979 they have not produced one article - not one - that has shown, with pictures, the dangers of aging by UV-light, and - believe me - they have published on any aspect of motorcycling you can think of. Ofcourse, everything ages by UV-light, but it will not deteriorate your helmet before the lining is long, long gone.  
Delta - go and read the technical journals there's tons of evidence in decent scientific publications supporting this. My Shoei is falling apart to the touch after nine years or did you not read that bit? And don't think that the law is any measure of this either - especially not in the Netherlands, hell you've only just passed a law to stop bestiality!

Listen to your countryman, Rob, above. He's a sensible and informed chap worthyof consideration...

Oh and here's a quote from the Arai website...

No matter how good it may look, or how well you take care of it, age still takes its toll. Even with minimal use, a helmet is affected by things like the acids and oils in sweat, haircare products, pollution, exposure to UV rays, etc. At about the five-year mark, helmet interiors begin to show wear and/or deterioration, which should serve as an alert to its overall condition. The helmet's fit may begin to feel a little "loose", not as snug as it once did. This unseen aging and deterioration of the EPS liner and fiberglass shell can affect the helmet's ability to perform in an impact as it was originally designed.
The 5 year rule should be taken from the date of manufacture which is stamped on the inside of a new helmet, or in the caes of an arai on the helmet strap, and not from the date you bought it as retailers buy in bulk they may have had the helmet a year or so before you buy it, just check when your buying it...

And one from HJC...
It is important that if a rider's model of hjc motorcycle helmets gets a crack they need to replace it. A helmet's life span is about 3 to 5 years based upon usage amount. As the helmet ages it is damaged by UV rays among other things. Remember that a helmet only protects you through one crash. In that one crash it will probably get damaged enough to need replacing.
1994 Ducati 888 SP5
1951 Ducati 50cc Cucciolo
1981 Yamaha XV750 SE

Offline ColinMc

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Re: Buying a NEW 3 year old helmet?
« Reply #49 on: October 10, 2009, 06:49:47 AM »
  I am staying away from them full face jobs, I have seen how it makes them  guys ride................................. ;).. lots of people dying with them things on...

Lol...wait are you serious? Sorry if I didn't get it...all I know is I wouldn't have a chin/jaw if I wasn't wearing a full face at least one of the times I went down. My helmet looked like someone held it against a belt sander right on the chin of it.
1976 CB750K - Cafe Project...taking forever
1984 Honda MB-5 - MB-8 conversion in process
2001 Ducati 748 - Built 996 motor sleeper