Author Topic: Race frames... (Read 38559 times)

Yoshi823 · « **Reply #25 on:** December 27, 2009, 03:00:51 PM »

Quote from: turboguzzi on December 27, 2009, 07:36:52 AM

yes, the two concepts are the same

The MotoGP ducati that nicky and stoner have been using this year had a carbon frame and its not the first ever.

Cagiva had a carbon 500 gp bike in the 90's and uk based skoal bandit suzuki ran their own carbon kevlar frames in 500 gp in the 80's .later the britten made use of a carbon frame, fork and wheels too.

Making structural carbon fiber components is a very different story compared to using fiberglass. Just cutting carbon fiber pre-preg requires tungsten knives or other exotic cutting methods and to obtain deffect free componenets, curing is done in huge autoclaves. add also milled aluminum tooling to form the parts.....

not that I want to discourage you, but its quite an endeavor

TG

And don't forget the CF wheels on Freddie Spencer's NSR500....that fell apart at an inopportune moment.

Yoshi823 · « **Reply #26 on:** December 27, 2009, 03:07:20 PM »

Quote from: voxonda on December 27, 2009, 07:11:41 AM

Quote from: simon#42 on December 27, 2009, 06:44:12 AM
yes.......................................................................

that pantall kawasaki brings back a few memories , people forget just how good a racer crosby was

I will never forget how good he was/is. Saw him the first time back in '78 on Brands, think it was the Anglo -American. Riding against Cooley, Pierce etc.
Just kept wheeliing that big thing. Promised myself that I would name my first born after him, and in '84 Graeme was born.
IMHO he paved way for Gardner, who had a better Moriwaki then Graeme ever did. Crosby did win the Suzuka eight hour and in Daytona the Superbikes '79 and later the 200 miler, won the Imola 200 the same year, became 2nd in the 500 that year, did not feel happy and went home.

Rob

I was at Brands at the same time...those were the days eh?
Croz also raced at the Isle of Man...he left the Highlander pub in 1980 at the same time as us and we chased him all the way back towards Douglas...and I got done for speeding. Oh well...it's the memories that count.

azuredesign · « **Reply #27 on:** December 27, 2009, 04:02:43 PM »

Quote from: turboguzzi on December 27, 2009, 07:36:52 AM

yes, the two concepts are the same

The MotoGP ducati that nicky and stoner have been using this year had a carbon frame and its not the first ever.

Cagiva had a carbon 500 gp bike in the 90's and uk based skoal bandit suzuki ran their own carbon kevlar frames in 500 gp in the 80's .later the britten made use of a carbon frame, fork and wheels too.

Making structural carbon fiber components is a very different story compared to using fiberglass. Just cutting carbon fiber pre-preg requires tungsten knives or other exotic cutting methods and to obtain deffect free componenets, curing is done in huge autoclaves. add also milled aluminum tooling to form the parts.....

not that I want to discourage you, but its quite an endeavor

TG

Thanks for the information! Thinking ambitiously is much easier and cheaper than actually doing so I'm not discouraged at all.

Retro Rocket · « **Reply #28 on:** December 27, 2009, 04:32:06 PM »

Thanks for the replies guys, unsprung weight can bring big benefits as well, maybe even more benefit on these old bikes as the older style brakes and wheels are very heavy..

Mick

von_Wanderlust · « **Reply #29 on:** December 28, 2009, 04:18:39 AM »

I bought a book a while back, 'Motorcycle Road & Racing Chassis' by a Mr. Keith Noakes, about the history of the different independent frame builders. I could have sworn that the writeup said that it had 'specs' on the bikes/frames, but I maybe I was reading what I wanted to hear.

Nonetheless it's still an interesting read, with little anecdotes here and there.

There's a pic in there of a bare Dresda frame for a CB750 engine, it's a nice pic as there are no parts to get in the way of looking at the frame itself. I like the framework around the head tube.

Howell · « **Reply #30 on:** December 28, 2009, 05:03:27 AM »

And this drawing of a Egli frame , thanks to my friend Jan W.:

von_Wanderlust · « **Reply #31 on:** December 28, 2009, 05:47:56 AM »

We have a winner! Bravo!

Yoshi823 · « **Reply #32 on:** December 28, 2009, 06:33:15 AM »

On my modified standard frame, the gussets and braces were from 531, the front right and top right engine mount plates were made from Alcoa,all wheel and bearing spacers from Dural,bottom yoke from CB900FZ which is cast ally rather than steel, oil tank and battery boxes held in place with ally bolts,battery box drilled,smaller battery, etc.
Effectively, every single nut and bolt was looked at with a view to making it lighter, without going to the titanium bolt supplier with a large wadge...but there were not many of them about back in 1981 when I took the plunge with th hacksaw.That's why I used plenty of dural and Alcoa...because that was what was available from the material stores.

voxonda · « **Reply #33 on:** December 28, 2009, 06:49:20 AM »

Hey Yoshi,

What is Alcoa? Never heard of the term. Suppose it's a alloy?

Rob

754 · « **Reply #34 on:** December 28, 2009, 08:49:07 AM »

is Dural 7075 Al ?.. or Ti
And by Alcoa..Which alloy do you mean?

paulages · « **Reply #35 on:** December 28, 2009, 09:19:38 AM »

Quote from: von_Wanderlust on December 28, 2009, 04:18:39 AM

I bought a book a while back, 'Motorcycle Road & Racing Chassis' by a Mr. Keith Noakes, about the history of the different independent frame builders. I could have sworn that the writeup said that it had 'specs' on the bikes/frames, but I maybe I was reading what I wanted to hear. Nonetheless it's still an interesting read, with little anecdotes here and there.

There's a pic in there of a bare Dresda frame for a CB750 engine, it's a nice pic as there are no parts to get in the way of looking at the frame itself. I like the framework around the head tube.

very featherbed-ish. nice picture.

paulages · « **Reply #36 on:** December 28, 2009, 09:19:55 AM »

Quote from: Howell on December 28, 2009, 05:03:27 AM

And this drawing of a Egli frame , thanks to my friend Jan W.:

this is great! thanks!

simon#42 · « **Reply #37 on:** December 28, 2009, 10:21:18 AM »

Quote from: Howell on December 28, 2009, 05:03:27 AM

And this drawing of a Egli frame , thanks to my friend Jan W.:

thats great , i will add that to my files!!

your right about the dresda paul they were all featherbed copies adapted for various engines

Howell · « **Reply #38 on:** December 28, 2009, 12:36:14 PM »

Another Egli , thanks JanW

Howell · « **Reply #39 on:** December 28, 2009, 12:48:57 PM »

Nico Bakker framed CB500.
Only one made , owner doesn't want to sell it.

Howell · « **Reply #40 on:** December 28, 2009, 01:15:31 PM »

Rob North framed CB500

Howell · « **Reply #41 on:** December 29, 2009, 06:58:17 AM »

Bimota HB1

Retro Rocket · « **Reply #42 on:** December 29, 2009, 03:16:38 PM »

Quote from: Howell on December 29, 2009, 06:58:17 AM

Bimota HB1

I would like to see that frame in more detail....

Mick

Soos · « **Reply #43 on:** December 29, 2009, 04:32:29 PM »

That Nico Bakker frame looks like it needs a 650 motor in it!

EXCELENT pics people! Makes me want to go with the monoshock on my next bike!

l8r

Howell · « **Reply #44 on:** December 30, 2009, 12:46:30 AM »

Quote from: retro rocket on December 29, 2009, 03:16:38 PM

Quote from: Howell on December 29, 2009, 06:58:17 AM
Bimota HB1

I would like to see that frame in more detail....

Mick

I have no more than this picture.

cavebear · « **Reply #45 on:** December 30, 2009, 06:10:52 PM »

CB 750 stressed member frame made by Moto Martin about 1975.

Seeley Honda frame made Reynolds 531 chrome moly. Tube joints fish mouthed then brazed, not welded. Frame 13 lbs lighter than stock. Many consider it the best CB750 aftermarket frame made

Mike

themotoworks · « **Reply #46 on:** December 30, 2009, 08:10:14 PM »

Quote from: paulages on December 26, 2009, 04:10:59 PM

i believe the guy said he was looking to make a frame guys, though your sources are good. i've looked all over the net for frame blueprints that aren't for cheesy "customs" and haven't even turned up a featherbed, so if anyone has any ideas i'm eagerly watching as well. i have foale's book as well as the suspension setup program he sells, but i'd still like to find some blueprints for tested designs.

i love how some of the honda factory manuals have very detailed frame specs and blueprints in them. it would be great to find these for featherbed. dresda, egli, drixton, etc. i'm particularly looking for the drixton honda 450 blueprints, so please somebody share!

you can view patent docs for the featherbed frame... not sure dimensions are there, but that's something you could work out

paulages · « **Reply #47 on:** December 30, 2009, 11:40:28 PM »

Quote from: roccitycafe on December 30, 2009, 08:10:14 PM

Quote from: paulages on December 26, 2009, 04:10:59 PM
i believe the guy said he was looking to make a frame guys, though your sources are good. i've looked all over the net for frame blueprints that aren't for cheesy "customs" and haven't even turned up a featherbed, so if anyone has any ideas i'm eagerly watching as well. i have foale's book as well as the suspension setup program he sells, but i'd still like to find some blueprints for tested designs.

i love how some of the honda factory manuals have very detailed frame specs and blueprints in them. it would be great to find these for featherbed. dresda, egli, drixton, etc. i'm particularly looking for the drixton honda 450 blueprints, so please somebody share!

you can view patent docs for the featherbed frame... not sure dimensions are there, but that's something you could work out

yeah, i found those. no measurements. if you know what rake, trail, and wheel base you want, i don't suppose it would be to hard to figure the rest out though.

Don R · « **Reply #48 on:** January 29, 2010, 08:24:30 PM »

It has been discussed to death on the drag race sites but almost all tube drag cars are chrome moly, tig welded with mild steel rod. Mine has been down the track over a thousand times. Built in 91. I did upright repairs a couple years ago due to the flex built in and the 225" wheelbase. The tubing cracked at the upright around the weld. This is an extreme example of flexing a moly assembly. It wheelies even with weight on the nose.
I would think a well designed moly bike frame would hold up extremely well and be light weight.

pae · « **Reply #49 on:** January 31, 2010, 02:10:59 AM »

Take a look at Jim Schmidt's Norton monoshock frame - plans are available in Autocad - $10 for a CD with drawings and photo's. Might not be ideal for what you want to do, but a good starting point and you can pull a few key dimensions from them as a start point for what you want to build.

Bargain really, I've got a set as inspiration for my next project.

http://www.jsengineering.net/ follow the Norton frame Plan link

Good thread btw, excellent links in here, must keep an eye on this one.

Phil

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Author Topic: Race frames... (Read 38559 times)