Author Topic: Harley takes a nosedive and cuts Buell and MV Augusta  (Read 7467 times)

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Offline winnipeg550guy

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Re: Harley takes a nosedive and cuts Buell and MV Augusta
« Reply #25 on: October 15, 2009, 08:19:33 PM »
 Maybe if they had offered a fully bagged out,with massive fairing, billet & chrome barge MV or Buell teddy bears, panties, pillows, condoms, they could have succeeded   ::) ::)
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Offline DammitDan

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Re: Harley takes a nosedive and cuts Buell and MV Augusta
« Reply #26 on: October 15, 2009, 10:40:34 PM »
What about the new XR1200 model?  That seems to be a (baby) step outside the box for them, and from what I've seen looks to be a fairly popular move.
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Offline TwoTired

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Re: Harley takes a nosedive and cuts Buell and MV Augusta
« Reply #27 on: October 15, 2009, 11:40:20 PM »
Harley doesn't have to be business smart.
There weren't in the 80's and survived with the government's help.
Nowdays company executives see that government is far more willing to "help out" ailing businesses with taxpayer money.  So, whatever they do is seen as low risk.

What's the difference?  Auto mfg makes SUV's and other inferior products that the people don't buy.  And HD makes Harleys.  Can't the taxpayers bail out both?
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Offline Ecosse

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Re: Harley takes a nosedive and cuts Buell and MV Augusta
« Reply #28 on: October 16, 2009, 12:05:05 AM »
Harley doesn't have to be business smart.
There weren't in the 80's and survived with the government's help.
Nowdays company executives see that government is far more willing to "help out" ailing businesses with taxpayer money.  So, whatever they do is seen as low risk.

What's the difference?  Auto mfg makes SUV's and other inferior products that the people don't buy.  And HD makes Harleys.  Can't the taxpayers bail out both?
+1

a good piece on this topic.

http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/news/buell-motorcycles-to-go-out-of-business/
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Offline GoatBaSS

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Re: Harley takes a nosedive and cuts Buell and MV Augusta
« Reply #29 on: October 16, 2009, 12:17:22 AM »
Wow, everything new is old again. I wonder how this will really play out in lost jobs R&D and the warm and fuzzy image that you can buy into. Buell looked happy this year @AMA in B'ham. Poor bastard had no clue then...
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Offline Raul CB750K1

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Re: Harley takes a nosedive and cuts Buell and MV Augusta
« Reply #30 on: October 16, 2009, 01:41:30 AM »
I have seen the Buell's announcement and it is really touching.


Buell's founded his company and was buying engines from HD. At some point, HD bought the company from him. He did that willingly, and I venture to guess he made a good profit with it. Part of the deal was that Buell would remain at the rudder, but the company was not his anymore.

I understand his disappointment, but it is something he couldn't avoid since the moment he sold his company. And the outcome would haven't been different had it been still the owner. The product is good but not price-competitive, and they don't have -as opposed to HD- a bread-and-butter motorcycle to sustain the company.

I know Buell will be back. All the marques are back sooner or later. If Erik is so confident that the decision is wrong and Buell has future, maybe he can re-buy his company from HD and go on.


As a side note, I love the corporate jargon "it has been decided", like if the decision has been taken by machines not people. Therefore, those who lose their jobs can't blame anybody in particular.


Just today, my company announced huge losses in the third quarter. Who knows, maybe in a few months there will be a similar announcement by my company's CEO. Times are though.

Offline 74cb750

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Re: Harley takes a nosedive and cuts Buell and MV Augusta
« Reply #31 on: October 16, 2009, 07:33:16 AM »
Stealing sidecovers is punishable by severe beatings, especially the left covers.  ;D

I liked Buells, but never had the money to buy one, besides, the wife will not allow
HD's or clones in the driveway.
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Offline BobbyR

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Re: Harley takes a nosedive and cuts Buell and MV Augusta
« Reply #32 on: October 16, 2009, 07:34:33 AM »
The whole industry is having a problem here are some figures:

Q2 U.S. Motorcycle Sales

The numbers aren't looking good for the first six months of 2009 compared to the same time period in 2008.  Sources tell us that street bike sales for the first two quarters of the 2009 year so far totaled 212,130, down 46% from the same time period in 2008.  Dual sport sales are down 47%; off-road motorcycle sales down 37% and scooter sales are down a whopping 67% from the first 6 months of 2008.

Meanwhile, some numbers from Japan indicate motorcycle production in May 2009 was down 28,445 units or 40.9% of the May 2008 number of 69,626 units produced.  Motorcycle exports from Japan in May 2009 totaled 33,845 units, down 28,203 units or 45.5% of May 2008 figure of 62,048 units.

Just for comparison, Japanese automobile exports in May 2009 were 233,217 units, down 295,400 units or 55.9% from the May 2008 figure of 528,617 units.


You can see a complete Worldwide breakdown and predictions here  http://www.webbikeworld.com/Motorcycle-news/statistics/motorcycle-sales-statistics.htm
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Offline Ecosse

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Re: Harley takes a nosedive and cuts Buell and MV Augusta
« Reply #33 on: October 16, 2009, 08:01:31 AM »
thanks bobby for the stats. now, everybody go into your local dealership and beat the salesmen up on the price of a new motorcycle! they do it to us when bike sales are healthy so turnabout is faire play.  ;D

perhaps the goal could be to see who can get the sales rep to come over and wash your bike(s) every weekend.

i think it was my corporate executive friend who told me when a company diversifies it should stay with those things that are consistent with its core  interests. notice when some of these companies have to sell off, it's brands that were a significant departure from its main thing. you might say that's the point of diversifying, but it's true only to a point. harley buying mv so it can have sport bikes is the lazy way of doing it. their new sportster 1200 is an example of a sport bike they won't have to liquidate.

another example was chrysler buying a chunk of lamborghini. granted it helped them develop the viper engine but it really broke down to corporate ego stroking to have them in their 'portfolio'.

i read an article in a classic bike mag about mr. buell; judging from that i can say he's definitely not to be counted out.  
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Offline shacolaid

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Re: Harley takes a nosedive and cuts Buell and MV Augusta
« Reply #34 on: October 16, 2009, 08:24:14 AM »
I hope to see Buell back as well. Erik Buell is a grad of the University of Pittsburgh so I have definitive soft spot for him. One of the reasons I bought my Speed Triple was that it was different from everyone else's bike at the time. It still is. Triumph as moved ahead with different models, but still has the same core bikes.

Maybe some company will take a chance and buy Buell and keep making them.

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Offline Ecosse

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Re: Harley takes a nosedive and cuts Buell and MV Augusta
« Reply #35 on: October 16, 2009, 08:36:20 AM »
i have a question hopefully can be answered: why are they selling mv agusta but shutting down buell?

are they really just mothballing buell for another day? why not sell both if they truly are hurting as much as the numbers indicate?
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Offline MCRider

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Re: Harley takes a nosedive and cuts Buell and MV Augusta
« Reply #36 on: October 16, 2009, 09:06:56 AM »
i have a question hopefully can be answered: why are they selling mv agusta but shutting down buell?

are they really just mothballing buell for another day? why not sell both if they truly are hurting as much as the numbers indicate?

My guess is that Buell is not a distinct enough unit that they can easily package it up and sell it. Also, I would bet money it is not a profitable unit and they couldn't get anything for it. Looking on their site, I see that in 25 years they've sold 100,000 bikes. The HD core at their height sold that many in a little more than a quarter. Buells says "Ducati has more people in their racing dept than he has in the whole company" And Ducati is not exactly big.

It was truly a toy to be played with by HD corporate racer wannabes.  But in hard times, toys go away and focus is key. I think they can mothball it for later, but I'll bet what happens is they cannibalize the assets to replace anything that may be wearing out in the core factory, cutting back on tooling costs during the recession, which will likely be longer than they are hoping.

MV as a recent purchase was never morphed into the corporate structure of HD and hence still able to be sold.  MV still has stand alone buildings and production assets that have value regardless of whether it was functioning profitably.  And the assets aren't physically close enough to be cannibalized.

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Offline BobbyR

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Re: Harley takes a nosedive and cuts Buell and MV Augusta
« Reply #37 on: October 16, 2009, 09:09:38 AM »
i have a question hopefully can be answered: why are they selling mv agusta but shutting down buell?

are they really just mothballing buell for another day? why not sell both if they truly are hurting as much as the numbers indicate?

From the LA Times

No buyer has yet been named for MV Agusta, based in Varese, Italy. MV could be sold because it is a stand-alone business unit, whereas Buell could not because it is too integrated into Harley's other operations, said company spokesman Paul James.

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-harley16-2009oct16,0,5830304.story

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Offline MCRider

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Re: Harley takes a nosedive and cuts Buell and MV Augusta
« Reply #38 on: October 16, 2009, 09:12:58 AM »
i have a question hopefully can be answered: why are they selling mv agusta but shutting down buell?

are they really just mothballing buell for another day? why not sell both if they truly are hurting as much as the numbers indicate?

From the LA Times

No buyer has yet been named for MV Agusta, based in Varese, Italy. MV could be sold because it is a stand-alone business unit, whereas Buell could not because it is too integrated into Harley's other operations, said company spokesman Paul James.

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-harley16-2009oct16,0,5830304.story



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Offline Ecosse

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Re: Harley takes a nosedive and cuts Buell and MV Augusta
« Reply #39 on: October 16, 2009, 09:36:01 AM »
see that makes sense, thanks guys. odd thing is that in the article i read (i'll have to dig it up) buell points to the use of the rotax in the 1125r as part of their plan to be a "stand alone" company. i doubt he was just blowing smoke,no?

according to that piece that particular rotax was developed in conjunction with buell for buell bikes.



i just remembered: the mag in question isn't a classic bike rag. it's at a friends house and i'll snag it today.
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Offline MCRider

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Re: Harley takes a nosedive and cuts Buell and MV Augusta
« Reply #40 on: October 16, 2009, 10:05:18 AM »
see that makes sense, thanks guys. odd thing is that in the article i read (i'll have to dig it up) buell points to the use of the rotax in the 1125r as part of their plan to be a "stand alone" company. i doubt he was just blowing smoke,no?

according to that piece that particular rotax was developed in conjunction with buell for buell bikes.



i just remembered: the mag in question isn't a classic bike rag. it's at a friends house and i'll snag it today.
Part of the appeal of Buell to HD in the first place was that he was using HD engines. But time proves them to be the final weak link. I'm sure the change to Rotax rubbed the HD brass the wrong way and didn't score any points.  Especially since the Rotax pushed them over the top into the winners circle, something the HD powerplants couldn't do.

Buell may have signed his own death warrant.  HD may not sell them for spite. It's peanuts to them either way.
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Offline ProTeal55

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Re: Harley takes a nosedive and cuts Buell and MV Augusta
« Reply #41 on: October 16, 2009, 12:34:43 PM »
Was just in a HD dealer yesterday and they are literally giving 09 Buell's away for nothing.
I asked one of the sales rep's why the bikes were so cheap and he said under his breath,
"we need to do something to move them"..

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Offline tramp

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Re: Harley takes a nosedive and cuts Buell and MV Augusta
« Reply #42 on: October 16, 2009, 04:53:02 PM »
buell's are good bikes
just can't find one thats comfy on a long ride
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Offline MacM2010

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Re: Harley takes a nosedive and cuts Buell and MV Augusta
« Reply #43 on: October 16, 2009, 07:59:51 PM »
I look at the Buell website right now, and every engine on there is between 900-1200 ccs.  Not that displacement is everything, but they used to offer an entry-level model, with varying degrees of success (I've known people who loved their Blasts, and people who absolutely hated Blasts of any kind, so much so that they boycotted fireworks on 7/4).  Now I can pretty much buy one of three engines in the same size range.  Same goes for Harley.

Look at Honda, on the other hand.  I can learn on a Rebel, like it, move up to something bigger, and move up from there, until I retire on my Goldwing.  Suzuki, Kawasaki, Yamaha: ditto. 

But not H-D.  Instead of easing people into their company, with the Blast logically moving up to the Lightning or a Sportster, then either to the faster Buells or the Harley big twins, they have nowhere to begin.  Am I really going to drop $10k+ on a new Harley (that I'll probably drop) on day one?  Even though an 883 Sportster doesn't have a whole lot of power, it's still a big bike for someone who's never been on one.  If H-D had made the same deal with new riders about Buells that they did about the Sportsters (full value for trade-up), we might not have to watch Mr. Buell cry.  I don't have a problem with H-D, really (I actually kind of like them  :o), but I never got the sense that the a$$clowns at the flashy dealerships gave a flying whatever about Buells, they were just the strange colorful bikes that weirdos would ask about sometimes, usually set up by the used stuff. 

Harley didn't have the problems GM did, where they bafflingly encouraged competition among their own brands.  They had three distinct, respected marques that served separate markets.  What they did wrong was fail to take two of them seriously, and now they're gone.  We'll see if they keep at the teddy-bear and toilet-seat schtick, or start taking their bikes seriously. 

Rant over.  Thank you for your time.
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Offline Bob Wessner

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Re: Harley takes a nosedive and cuts Buell and MV Augusta
« Reply #45 on: October 18, 2009, 03:13:42 AM »
Followed a link in there to this. Interesting take on Harley's future, or lack thereof, according to the author.

http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/news/tough-time-harleydavidson-riders-older/
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Offline BobbyR

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Re: Harley takes a nosedive and cuts Buell and MV Augusta
« Reply #46 on: October 18, 2009, 09:43:55 AM »
Great article Bob. Harley should look into building cruising trikes. I see a lot of older riders with hip replacements riding them.
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Re: Harley takes a nosedive and cuts Buell and MV Augusta
« Reply #47 on: October 19, 2009, 07:40:01 AM »
I thought Harley was already building a cruising trike? ??? The Street Glide Trike...
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Offline demon78

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Re: Harley takes a nosedive and cuts Buell and MV Augusta
« Reply #48 on: October 20, 2009, 03:49:24 AM »
Cruising Trikes, I can see it now, they can finally resurrect the Survey Cart, stuff a 74 in it and fancy up the body work, you know Bronze Squirrel Tails and Silver Monkey Balls the whole thing, it'll gladden the heart of the styling department and give new life to a classic production model. There by saving dollars spent on R&D and engineering.
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Offline MRieck

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Re: Harley takes a nosedive and cuts Buell and MV Augusta
« Reply #49 on: October 20, 2009, 05:15:26 AM »
 I think this article sums it up as to why Buell is where it is today. The "racing" success at Daytona is very misleading IMO as that bike at what, 1200cc, was racing against lousy (in regard to tune etc) 600's.
   http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2009/Oct/091016expldeleted.htm

  
« Last Edit: October 20, 2009, 05:18:10 AM by MRieck »
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