Topic: Installed Roller Steering Neck Bearings and now front end out of alignment???

[drackett_19]

Hey guys,

I am at a loss as to what is going on with my front end. I've been riding the bike for 3 years and it always handled great. I swapped out the steering stem ball bearings for some new roller bearings and after reassembling the front end, it is not straight.

To look at it, its not really noticeable, but when I start leaning into turns and riding it, you can tell the front end is seriously out of whack.

When I tested the front/rear wheel alignment with a stringline, the front wheel is about an inch further to the right ...its like the tubes are bent to the right, but i'm sure they're straight because after reassembling it twice and turning the tubes inside the lowers, it still aligns the exact same, leading me to believe its the yokes(triple trees) or something??

I also checked the new races and they are seated flat and there is no binding in the stem bearings, so I don't believe they are the culprits either.

Could there be a twist between the upper and lower yokes?

To align the front end I tightened the lower clamps, pumped the forks against the wall about 10 times and then tightened the upper clamps. If anybody has any ideas or tips please fire away...this is really frustrating.

thanks.

Dan

[davesprinkle]

I just helped a friend sort out his tapered roller installation.  He had forgotten to install the spacer between the lower race and the lower triple clamp.  As a result, the bearings weren't actually contacting the race.  The lower triple was crashing into the frame, and resulted in a number of evil handling characteristics.

Maybe this is the issue for you?  Good luck.

[Hush]

Slacken the triple tree bolts that tighten to secure the forks, straddle the front wheel and holding the bars move the front wheel around a bit.
It's like doing the twist (hang on you're 27) OK just brace your knees against the wheel and give the whole front a good twisting back and forth as much as it will move.
Now realign the forks/bars and see if that helped.

[drackett_19]

Hey Dave, thats a good idea, but the spacer is between the race and lower yoke, stem seems to be rotating very smooth.

Hush: so you're sayin give it the ol'chubby checker treatment?  sounds like a good idea, i'll give it a shot in the morning and see if things fall into place.

thanks

Dan

[TIM TINGEY, age 55]

Jack the front end up just enough to let the front wheel have alittle weight on it. Loosen a fork tube upper and lower clamps, loosen the fork axle clamp. Now turn the fork tube-watch the lower leg to see if it moves around on the axle. If it doesn't, the the fork tube is straight enough, if it moves then the tube is bent. Do the same check on the other fork assly. ITS late so I gotta go, email me at timmanyatingey@yahoo.com and i'll give you other reasons.

[eurban]

To align the front end I tightened the lower clamps, pumped the forks against the wall about 10 times and then tightened the upper clamps. If anybody has any ideas or tips please fire away...this is really frustrating.

thanks.

Dan

Dan, the upper clamp has a pinch nut on it that grabs the steering stem.  If you don't loosen this then there is no way for the upper clamp and lower clamp to twist independently of each other.  Did you have that loose during the detwisting process??

[drackett_19]

Hey Tim, very good idea as well, I am going to try that as soon as I eat some breakfast this morning. I'll be sure to post up the results.

Hey eurban, I had the clamps in the upper yoke loose when pumping. but thanks anyways, hopefully i'll be able to figure out whats causing this today.

thanks again to everyone thats offered some advice on this.

[HondaMan]

This just about sounds like the fork tubes were previously bent back, from hitting something. When you reinstalled, they now are not in the same position, pointing off to one side instead.

Check the fork tubes for non-straightness.

[drackett_19]

welp, i've gone through everything twice and the tire is still an inch further to right off center at the bottom.

I tried your idea Tim and the fork tubes are straight, the lowers didn't move at all as I spun the tubes.

I also gave it a good twisting with the trees loosened up but it still settles back into its "out of alignment" spot.

very frustrating. i've got the front end stripped down right now with just the tubes and the trees attached and everything looks to be lined up.

I am going to check the bearing races again and I'm starting to wonder if its the rim/tire that is out.

Could the tire be rotating at an angle like this l/l between the forks?

[MCRider]

A couple of things. Was it OK before the steering bearings, or maybe you just hadn't noticed it was bad before replacing the bearings?  And the extra attention to the front end resulted in you noticing the wheel misalignment?

If the forks are parallel and you describe the situation as I/I, could be wheel bearings. Does the wheel spin nicely when elevated?

[mystic_1]

Got pics?

mystic_1

[drackett_19]

Yeah the bike handled great before disassembling it for the new bearings, I actually didn't even notice it wasn't straight after putting it back together, until I took it for a ride and knew something wasn't right.

Unfortunately I lost my camera a couple weeks ago, i'll try to borrow one tonight and get some pictures. But it literally looks like the front end is straight, but then when I do the stringline alignment with the back tire, the front tire is a full inch further to the right.

I triple checked that the rear axle is straight on the swingarm as well.

[HondaMan]

Umm...a random thought: is the front axle in the right way? 

[Joe Mig]

What was the reason for the Bearing replacement in the first place ?

[MCRider]

Umm...a random thought: is the front axle in the right way? 

yes we had a thread a while back with similar problem. Poster had put the axle in backwards, nut on wrong side. Caused a misalignment, but it was binding the brake and pretty obvious.

[drackett_19]

Umm...a random thought: is the front axle in the right way? 

good idea but I haven't taken the axle out of the wheel, just made sure it was tighened up and axle/wheel fits good in the forks.

I've since done some more twisting with the triple trees loosened up and I think its alot more in alignment than it was. still a bit off to the side and i'm still puzzled. might have to wait til next year to give it a test ride though, the snow moved in already and chances of taking it for a ride this year are slim. 

there's no way to adjust the wheel side-to-side with the axle is there? I see its like 2 pieces that threads into itself..i Just made sure it was tight together.

[mystic_1]

When you made sure it was tight, were you able to turn it at all?

It's possible (but not probable) that, IF your wheel center spacer is missing, AND the axle is way over-tightened (if thats even possible, I think it bottoms out eventually), then one of your bearings may be out of position, BUT you'd notice this I think because you'd have to squeeze the forks together in order to put the wheel in because the overall axle length would be too short now.

Just tossing out random thoughts.

How far out of alignment are you now, and in which direction?

mystic_1

[Joe Mig]

Is the rear wheel aligned properly ?

[mystic_1]

Is the rear wheel aligned properly ?

He said above,

I triple checked that the rear axle is straight on the swingarm as well.

mystic_1

[Hush]

Two things I have thought about, has the front wheel (and hub) spun past the fork on either side? On many models there is a slot the left side slips into to keep the brake drum from rotating with the wheel.
It is just above the speedo cable drive and can slip back when you are working on the front end.
Outside chance but I have done this myself so not impossible.
My other thought is, how about jacking the front of the engine up so the front wheel is clear of the ground, now rotate the front wheel a few times, is it straight? does it wobble? is it on an angle?
Does your bike have spokes? if so are they correctly adjusted (if you didn't touch them ignore that)

[drackett_19]

Hey guys, thanks for the additional ideas. In terms of the axle being over-tightened, I don't think thats the case because the axle fits the forks with ease like you mentioned. Hush: The bike is a '75 so its fitted with a disk front brake, but I am really starting to lean towards improper alignment of the front wheel. I recently had it aligned/balanced because a wobble had appeared...that was part of why I decided to pull the new bearing kit off the shelf after 6 months of collecting dust. I just find it hard to believe that the guy could've messed with the spokes so much that the wheel is now that far out of alignment. When I spin the wheel it looks centered in the forks.

It is supposed to be decent weather today so i'm going to take it out for a good spin and see how it handles.

Is there a method for checking swingarm bushings? Could me rear axle be correctly lined up with the alignment marks on the swinarm, but still crooked?

[dagersh]

Could me rear axle be correctly lined up with the alignment marks on the swinarm, but still crooked?

Drac -

For giggles check your axle distance from the swimgarm pivot on both sides.  The Alignment marks are not always accurate.

Also, I seem to remember someone having the same problem with the front wheel alignment.  Try the Chubby Checker thing again, but loosen up all the bolts and on the front end and "bounce" the bike on the suspension.  Then see if made any difference.  Sorry I cannot be clearer or find that thread.

HTH

Gersh