Topic: honda motor company acting strange?

[turboguzzi]

"Dear Client

Unfortunately, in the future it will no longer be possible for you to access the Honda micro-fiche pictures of your motorcycle whilst ordering over our internet shop. Honda Japan has deemed it an infringement of their licensing laws to disclose the data in its current form to the end user. We are presently working on re-structuring our internet shop so as to enable you to order spare parts in a user-friendly way, as before. This should be up and running shortly."

got this from an online shop in Germany, I am wondering if this is going to spread over soon to sites like bikebandit, cmsnl, and others.

If yes, then it'll be clearly be a loss to all of us, having online access to microfiches is a real time and money server..... 

Would understand that rule on fresh models where honda has to amortize documentation costs, but on 30-40 years old bikes?

[turboguzzi]

Wait..... CMSNL has already eliminated their online microfiches..... cant seem to find them anymore....

[Raul CB750K1]

Fear not, they will be online soon.

I guess Honda wants some part of the cake.


For their own interest, all the bike parts sites will be paying fees to Honda and putting the microfiches online again. After all, it is great if the customer do the homework for them, as opposed to your local shop "I want a right blinker for a 97 Nighthawk", where the clerk must do the search, and if he gets the wrong code, the customer won't want the part.

As I said, there will be no difference but in the profit of the sites, because they are already charging maximum price, therefore, the fees they will have to pay will lower their margin -and increase the margin of Honda-


I have never trusted online information. I mean, you can't never know how long will it be available, therefore, I have got me the parts manual in print of every bike I own. Very seldom do I use the online version, except to check for prices.

[paulages]

i just did a google search for "honda fiche", and the first hit worked fine. i used to have bookmarks on my computer for the few sites that had the diagrams, but they are abundant now. hope they don't all go away..

[Raul CB750K1]

Would understand that rule on fresh models where honda has to amortize documentation costs, but on 30-40 years old bikes?

Since when do companies content to make profit until the productions costs are amortized?

Companies must squeeze their assets to the full, regardless of the assets age. The expense of prosecuting individuals for photocoping parts manual are usually not worth the effort, but if some company is making profits by using a registered material that doesn't belong to them, it is common sense that the owner of the rights want a part of the profits.

[bwaller]

In this part of the world Honda seems to be focusing on "super dealers" that will sell everything from the smallest generator to their largest automobile. One stop shopping I suppose. Most of the good service Mom/Pop motorcycle dealers will be gone, so too the really good parts departments where I ordered all my H parts.

Is there a link to what you mention TG, I don't know.

[KB02]

Crotchrocket.com and Bikebandit still have their fiche up and running.

[HondanutRider]

I don't know how available they still are, but a couple of years ago I was able to purchase, quite reasonably, actual micro fiche for some of my 1960 model Hondas.  The local public library has nice fiche readers that are attached to computers as viewers.  It took a bit of time, but I was able to scan all the images and burn them onto a disc at these library machines.  I even found a free program to convert the images into an Adobe document, so now I have my own parts manuals that I can access and print if needed.  I did the manuals for the C95, CB160, S65, and C100 that way.  Others, like the CB350F I purchased a disc with a copy of the parts manual already on it.


(PSST...don't tell Honda  )

[tortelvis]

As I said, there will be no difference but in the profit of the sites, because they are already charging maximum price, therefore, the fees they will have to pay will lower their margin -and increase the margin of Honda-


I have never trusted online information.

What do mean "already charging maximum price"? Where the heck are YOU shopping? I work at a metric parts wholesaler and we sell wholesale to the public since 1971. I can't name the company as we are not sponsors but our average price is dealer cost plus 30%. That's not 30% off, that's what we pay plus a 30% markup. How about a new chrome front fender for a 1976 CB750K that retails for $285.95? Our price is $218.37 so please don't make blanket statements that we are charging "maximum price".

[bikerbart]

Yeah,no loyalty anymore,Honda closed University Honda in Seattle without  much notice at all,Oldest dealer in Wa.I guess its all about numbers and not people.

[Raul CB750K1]

As I said, there will be no difference but in the profit of the sites, because they are already charging maximum price, therefore, the fees they will have to pay will lower their margin -and increase the margin of Honda-


I have never trusted online information.

What do mean "already charging maximum price"? Where the heck are YOU shopping? I work at a metric parts wholesaler and we sell wholesale to the public since 1971. I can't name the company as we are not sponsors but our average price is dealer cost plus 30%. That's not 30% off, that's what we pay plus a 30% markup. How about a new chrome front fender for a 1976 CB750K that retails for $285.95? Our price is $218.37 so please don't make blanket statements that we are charging "maximum price".

For "maximum price" I mean that companies charge the maximum they can for their products/services.

If Honda knows that people is willing to pay 1 grand for a set of pipes for the cB750, and the manufacturing cost is $100, I can assure you they are not going to charge $100 + 30%.


Some people would think: if CMSNL now have to pay fees to Honda, they will charge that cost on the selling price of their products.

My point is that CMSNL was already charging the maximum they could. They don't just add a 30% or other margin to their purchase cost. They set a price for the parts, usually higher than Honda dealer, and try to get maximum benefit by buying in bulk and getting huge discounts from Honda and the rest of manufacturers.



Now, talking about your company 30% markup, where does that figure come from? Is it what you have calculated to cover your overhead costs, or is it what Honda allows to charge? In any case, I assume that 30% is the maximum you can charge, and while you could probably still charge less and still make a profit, your company charges the maximum it can. Otherwise, if Honda is charging $285 for a fender, why do your company charge just $218? Is it probably that $285 is just an artificial price to make yours reasonable? And, after all, Honda is selling a fender, regardless of who is the last link in the chain that sells the fender to the final customer.

[tortelvis]

I have to admit that Honda occasionally kick the arse out of it. I have a customer that deals in the CBX exclusively. He once told me that he would take every left front footped that I could get for him, thinking that it would not be available. Well  the number came up as in stock but...Honda wants $211 each!!! No way did they sell for that new. I have to say as well that Honda are the best for availability of old parts and they DO care about their customers. I recently had a chat with a Honda rep about old parts. He told me  the reason that I could not order the entire stock of a particular part for one client. This is to make sure that the parts are spread around as many different customers as possible.

[turboguzzi]

don't have a link but i received that email from http://zsf-motorrad.de/

I got curious, went to check good old cmsnl and saw that the online microfiches are suddenly gone. They used to have a very nice microfiche access so i don't think its only a coincidence,

saw that bikebandit still have them on, lets hope it stays that way.

My only comment towards some of the replies here is that honda wants to sell parts and if online microfiches make it easier for customers to purchase them, i cant understand the logic of this step.

Tg

[voxonda]

Hey TG,

If I go to the CMSNL site, everything works??!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Rob

[myhondas]

Wait..... CMSNL has already eliminated their online microfiches..... cant seem to find them anymore....

not sure where you are looking.....cmsnl still has the fiches online....u must be looking the wrong place... I just went in and checked on my c100 cub and the cb750....both there


here are a few other places with them.....

http://www.cyclepartswarehouse.com/fiche_select.asp

http://www.hdlparts.com/fiche_select.asp

[turboguzzi]

Hey TG,

If I go to the CMSNL site, everything works??!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Rob

You are right Rob, false alarm regarding cmsnl, sorry

Earlier I tired some random models and couldnt see the microfiches, but now I tried others and saw them, oops

In any case, the email I got seems to be genuine, cant think this german guys invented it. makes you wonder about the reasoning behind honda's request.

[Raul CB750K1]

My only comment towards some of the replies here is that honda wants to sell parts and if online microfiches make it easier for customers to purchase them, i cant understand the logic of this step.

makes you wonder about the reasoning behind honda's request.

cmsnl is not a Honda associate. They are resellers.

Parts fiches doesn't grow in trees, it takes people at Honda drawing and sorting them -and if it was not Honda who made them, it is Honda the one who paid for them anyway-
Honda compiled parts fiches to provide shops worldwide with a tool to place orders. CMSNL is not a Honda associate. If they want to use that service, Honda wants them to pay for it. And I think it is just fair.

In fact, I don't think Honda would charge CMSNL for using parts fiches so they can place orders, but instead, for providing parts fiches as if they were a CMSNL service, when it is not. It looks like if parts fiches is a value-added service by cmsnl, but they are not paying for it.

[Raul CB750K1]

It reminds me of when Honda threaten to sue reproductiondecals.com if they continued selling Honda decals. It may sound strange to us, Honda fans, that Honda would hinder somebody offering decals to restore our bikes.

But corporations, specially big ones, are not driven by feelings. Their point is that an external company is making decals with their designs, and if we pay $3 for a Honda decal, $2.99 is for the design and $0.01 is for the material -you get the point-. That is, we wouldn't be buying a decal from that company, has it not being for the design on it. Therefore, a Honda asset -the design, the brand, the image, etc- is being used by an external company to add value to their product -an adhesive sheet-, and Honda have the right to protect their assets. After all, regardless of how deeply you want to have decals on your bike, the fact is that they don't add any value to the product -bike- with respect of its primary function -riding-, and there is no way to justify the necessity of circumventing patent rights for selling reproduction decals.

[MJL]

In this part of the world Honda seems to be focusing on "super dealers" that will sell everything from the smallest generator to their largest automobile. One stop shopping I suppose. Most of the good service Mom/Pop motorcycle dealers will be gone, so too the really good parts departments where I ordered all my H parts.

Is there a link to what you mention TG, I don't know.

I think they call that a "powerhouse" dealer, and is sad because I prefer to go to a specialist to have work done, rather than a generic all around service center, even if it is factory.

[myhondas]

My only comment towards some of the replies here is that honda wants to sell parts and if online microfiches make it easier for customers to purchase them, i cant understand the logic of this step.

makes you wonder about the reasoning behind honda's request.

cmsnl is not a Honda associate. They are resellers.

Parts fiches doesn't grow in trees, it takes people at Honda drawing and sorting them -and if it was not Honda who made them, it is Honda the one who paid for them anyway-
Honda compiled parts fiches to provide shops worldwide with a tool to place orders. CMSNL is not a Honda associate. If they want to use that service, Honda wants them to pay for it. And I think it is just fair.

In fact, I don't think Honda would charge CMSNL for using parts fiches so they can place orders, but instead, for providing parts fiches as if they were a CMSNL service, when it is not. It looks like if parts fiches is a value-added service by cmsnl, but they are not paying for it.

Raul,

But you can take it too far.  One of the favorite sayings that gets bounced around here is this.....


" Penny Wise and Dollar Stupid ! "

 Let the bean counters run the world and you will have to account for every breath you take and then pay for it.  If for a few pennies you would turn away many dollars, then you will get what you deserve....loss of business followed by bankruptcy.

[Raul CB750K1]

Raul,

But you can take it too far.  One of the favorite sayings that gets bounced around here is this.....


" Penny Wise and Dollar Stupid ! "

 Let the bean counters run the world and you will have to account for every breath you take and then pay for it.  If for a few pennies you would turn away many dollars, then you will get what you deserve....loss of business followed by bankruptcy.

I agree with you, but we all are forgetting the bottom line. Selling parts and decals for old bikes is not Honda's main business. Their main business is selling new beasts such as the CBR900RR, the VFR, or their line of cars. Or selling intro bikes, selling Super Cubs etc. Spares is a service they provide, not their main line of business.

The fact that a couple people gets a living by selling reproduction decals is not something that should concern Honda. But the fact is that they are competing against Honda with a stolen property, because Honda still offers many of the decals.

Spares quality is a big point in these companies. Even when it is just a service, it is important that spares perform their function as expected, and it is normal that Honda wants to control the quality of their spares, and the only way to do it is if they market the parts themselves -even if somebody else builds the parts and they just apply their quality controls-

The same goes with decals. A peeling decal may speak bad about Honda quality, and they may rather like to control that aspect too, even if it is just peanuts for their corporate account.

[moham]

Fear not, they will be online soon.

I guess Honda wants some part of the cake.


For their own interest, all the bike parts sites will be paying fees to Honda and putting the microfiches online again. After all, it is great if the customer do the homework for them, as opposed to your local shop "I want a right blinker for a 97 Nighthawk", where the clerk must do the search, and if he gets the wrong code, the customer won't want the part.

As I said, there will be no difference but in the profit of the sites, because they are already charging maximum price, therefore, the fees they will have to pay will lower their margin -and increase the margin of Honda-


I have never trusted online information. I mean, you can't never know how long will it be available, therefore, I have got me the parts manual in print of every bike I own. Very seldom do I use the online version, except to check for prices.

how does the print version update itself? do they republish regularly with changes?

[Raul CB750K1]

how does the print version update itself? do they republish regularly with changes?

You don't need an update. If you need -say- an oil seal and it was superseded years after the publishing date, just go ahead and order the code you have in your 30-year-old parts manual. If is has been superseded, you will be sold the superseded part.

That is great from a "service" point of view, that is, if you need a seal, you will be sold a compatible seal. If you are a purist restorer, you may find that the rubber grommet for the speedo cable is black not grey, and that may piss you off, but from the "service" point of view, you will be sold a grommet that perfectly performs the function it was designed for.

[moham]

I imagine one could just continue to use the fiche diagrams on Honda dealer sites. I'm assuming this change only affects non-licensed Honda dealers.

[odin836]

It would be nice to have "current part numbers"...

I find it very difficult to order many parts from out of date fiches, and receive parts (especially bearings) with different part numbers that all look similar.