Topic: KO's ?? just what is so great about them? The blew up didn't they?

[ElCheapo]

As I am starting to search for other 750's my wife posed a resonable question. All while stating facts that she knows of the KO's from reading my stuff and listening to me and occassionally reading this forum.

If KO's were known for blowing the drive chain as well as a host of other problems that Honda weeded out later, why is the bike worth so much? Old Pinto's that burst into flames are worth nothing for the most part. Old Gremlins are about in the same game. These parts are rare also.

I think this is a good point. A bike becomes worth more because it was prone to killing itself and its parts? Not sure how this all works. While the 750 was a great bike when it was first introduced to the the world, blowing chains - effectively killing the bike was not a good sign for the market.

After considering her question, I am of the opinion that much of the early K prices are buyer driven hype. Rarity of parts and the cost of the bikes is driven up by the fact that they left a trail of parts an bits when they blew a chain? I can tell you sellers of these parts feed like wolves in a bloody slaughter when early K owners buy parts.

Afterall a Haybusa that delivers almost twice the horsepower and far better handling is worth less than the KO? Might I add atleast 100 times more reliable also. 

[cbjunkie]

"value" is a slippery concept, and the answer cannot be divined using the principal of supply and demand alone.

unlike the pinto or gremlin, the star of the 750/4 continued to rise post-inception as the quality of the materials and means of manufacturing were refined. it can be imagined that this is the very reason the sandcast models are so incredibly valuable to collectors now.  from humble beginnings...THE SUPERBIKE!

Model A fords weren't exactly automotive champs by today's standards, either, but you'd be hard pressed to deliver one in museum condition for less than several thousands of dollars...

here we observe the value of "mystique". (revel in it, owners) what will the market bear? and do we believe the prophets or the salesmen? is there a difference?

[Bob Wessner]

They are desired, Gremlins and Pintos are not. Simple as that I guess.

[Jonesy]

You have to look at the bike in it's context:

At the time the K0 was introduced, it was like nothing else on the road. It was the first bike to offer a disc brake, electric leg, 4 cylinder SOHC motor and 5-speed gearbox in a street-legal package. Plus, it was a steal at just under $1,500. Sure, these weren't new innovations, but Honda was the first to put them all together in a standard, affordable package. You could get a 4-cylinder bike from, say, MV Augusta- If you were the CEO of General Electric. Plus the "Sandcast" bikes were rare enough to begin with, only some 7,000 or so made. Who knows, if they only made a few thousand Pintos, between their small numbers and reputation for a firey death they might have attained some sort of cult status. The Pinto broke no new ground. It came from a time the American auto industry would like to forget. The CB750 Ushered in a brand new era in motorcycling.  Before it came along, most motorcycles had spotty reliability and being relatively crude pushrod twins, shook alot. The silky-smooth 750 changed everyone's perception. Honda broke it's back with all the R&D and testing that went into the new bike to make it (despite it's flaws) the best machine on the road. Did Ford do that with the Pinto??

Now, of course, a modern bike of half the capacity can easily blow the sidecovers off a 750. That's to be expected. Technology will keep progressing. Hopefully, cars nowadays don't blow up so easily, either!

[GroovieGhoulie]

Blowing chains or not, I still want a K0 REALLY bad!

[ElCheapo]

I agree on the cult status of some vehicles, reguardless if it makes sense. In some circles my old Maverick (while a pile o' #$%*e) is worth a lot of money rust free or not.

And no the Pinto just seemed to burst into flames. No R&D needed in that realm. I just think that KO's are way over priced even with thier hertage if you will. I guess for my collection I think I will get some side covers together and make a fake KO out of a K1. Only the most anal of judges can tell the difference between wrinkle tanks and non-wrinkle tanks without opening the cap. I just refuse to pay the high dollar they are selling for right now. And if I am careful I can take a set of K1 gauges look dead like a set of KO's. I can be happy with a psuedo KO. It will still turn heads like any of the other bikes I am building I suppose.

[Bob Wessner]

Actually, it would not take that much to discern the difference between a K0 or K1 and it is more than just side covers. But then, in the absence of such anality (that a word?) the observer might not know the difference between a K0 and a K8.

In some ways, I can agree with you. If I did not already have a K0, sort of  , I probably wouldn't pay that much for it either, but I sort of fell into it years ago. However, many would and therein lies the market.

[ElCheapo]

Actually, it would not take that much to discern the difference between a K0 or K1 and it is more than just side covers. But then, in the absence of such anality (that a word?) the observer might not know the difference between a K0 and a K8.

In some ways, I can agree with you. If I did not already have a K0, sort of  , I probably wouldn't pay that much for it either, but I sort of fell into it years ago. However, many would and therein lies the market.

True true true. In the expedition that would be making a good faker I would problably learn more about the bikes than I could ever learn any other way.  Really hoping for that KO to drop into a furture score. You never know.....

For me it would be like a trophy of sorts just to say I had one. Not that I would clock the miles I do on the other bikes. Nor would I participate in the super bike foolishness I normally do in the corners.

[toycollector10]

Cheapo, Cheapo, Cheapo....Spitfire fighters blew up, P51 Mustangs blew up, E type Jags have blown up, The Hindenberg blew up, a few K0's blew up..It's a design classic, timeless, sweet, sweet, sweet.....Now Cheapo, if you're not with us, you'r against us!! and we  don't want to start a fight in here do we??

[6pkrunner]

Desireability of a 1953 Corvette versus a 1960 Corvette. A 1968 Charger versus a 1975 Charger.
And with a mittful of cash you can buy a brand new Hayabusa at any corner store. Not so with a K0. And the two are eons apart. Its the collector mentality. Hard to explain. I know you are only joking here, but it is difficult to explain. Sentimentality and identification with fun times from the past make up a big chunk of it. When the K0 was running the streets it was dropping jaws left right and center. By the time the K7 was out there were many more higher zoot bikes out and the novelity of the Cb series was diminished. While still a great design, there were many that upstaged it by then.

[dusterdude]

none of these bikes are worth the money some fool is willing to pay.

[ofreen]

After considering her question, I am of the opinion that much of the early K prices are buyer driven hype. Rarity of parts and the cost of the bikes is driven up by the fact that they left a trail of parts an bits when they blew a chain?
After all a Haybusa that delivers almost twice the horsepower and far better handling is worth less than the KO? Might I add atleast 100 times more reliable also. 

The chain problem was just that, a chain problem.  The K0 has the same amount of clearance in the countersprocket area that the later 750's have.  As far as reliability goes, the K0 surpassed anything else available at the time.   K0's have higher prices because they have become relatively scarce and they represent something significant to a lot of people.  Consider that if no one gives a darn about K0's, soon there wouldn't be any left.  They would be used up and discarded.  Think of all the 750s that has happened to.  I used to go into motorcycle wrecking yards around here and see CB750s literally piled up like so much trash.  I'd look at odometers and see bikes with only 20,000 miles on them.  They were there because few gave a darn and put no value on them.  A couple of years ago, one of the yards cleaned out most of the SOHC stuff, throwing it all into dumpsters and hauling it off.  Complete engines, frames, wheels, etc.  They threw stuff away that would have people on this list salivating like dogs downwind from a slaughterhouse.   It was sad to see and probably someday I'll wish I had bought it all.

Greg
'75 CB750F

[Brookesy]

My 2c.

"If you owned the last 2 KO 750's on the planet, what would you do?"
Torch one of them!
That way the last one becomes the last one on the planet and is 100 times more valuable.

If all the CB750's ever made were still available - they would be worth almost nothing and would probalby be less desirable.
Anything rare is desirable - to someone.

But it goes deeper than that.
Each generation of young people has certain things that turn their wheels.
The CB750 and some cars did it for us.
They were unobtainable to most of us at the time so they become disirable - and a link to the past.
Deep down we don't want to see them discarded and forgotten - maybe because it reminds us that we'll be discarded and forgotten when we're obsolete.

When we get to the point where we have a few spare $$$ to spend, we chase the things that were out of our reach when we were young - and broke.
They become valuable again and the cycle goes on.

The next generation may not give a #$%* about the CB750, the K0 or the Sandcast
The prices will fall and the rarest of them will still have some value.

A K0 was advertised (unrestored but low miles) here for $12,000 recently.
If someone desperately wants one and has the cash it's probably worth it.
It's irreplacable after all.

It does change the fact that stcok ,modified, chopped...
They're a great of piece of history - and pretty too.

[mcpuffett]

here, here, could'nt have said it better myself brooksey mick.

[GroovieGhoulie]

It's a good point about the next generation not caring about them and prices coming down. 

At least I hope so, being 25 right now, maybe I'll be able to afford a museum-quality K0 someday when my peers can finally afford stuff and don't care about it. 

[cb650]

They are desired, Gremlins and Pintos are not. Simple as that I guess.

Not generally but I have seen a couple of each that would be nice to have.   One was pinto station wagon even.  Well it did have a 351 in it runnin 11s in the 1/4. 



                            Terry

[Bob Wessner]

Well it did have a 351 in it runnin 11s in the 1/4.

True enough, there are always exceptions. There are probably K0's that are worthless as well. 

[Jonesy]

I guess for my collection I think I will get some side covers together and make a fake KO out of a K1. Only the most anal of judges can tell the difference between wrinkle tanks and non-wrinkle tanks without opening the cap. I just refuse to pay the high dollar they are selling for right now.

Who's making you?? If you don't want to, then don't!

And if I am careful I can take a set of K1 gauges look dead like a set of KO's. I can be happy with a psuedo KO. It will still turn heads like any of the other bikes I am building I suppose.

Then, what are you complaining about? If that makes you happy and that's what you want to do, then go for it..

Now, if you really want to split hairs, can someone tell me why anyone in thier right mind would pay twice the amount of a modern H-D for a mid-60's one?? It's not like they are that old...

[cb650]

all depends on objective.  Finally got through to my son at a car show about the guy that WORKED on HIS 29 original ford as opossed to the #$%* down the street that PAYED to have his "29" street rod (comaro front end fiber body) BUILT by somebody else.   



               Terry

[74cb750]

well put brooksey.

Recently while in a dealership, I noticed 60's and 70's muscle cars were selling for more than the older Fords etc. JProbably because I (like most of us) would rather have something you can actually drive in the real world.