Topic: Fort Hood Shootings?!?!?

[Duke McDukiedook]

Yeah, straight from the 1984 playbook; eternal war, no real victory or end to it, just won and lost battles in some far off place- Pacifica.

Crazy to see how we inch closer and closer to Orwell's dystopian future.

[Bob Wessner]

Hi IC, you should put those turboparts in the High Performance thread, there's a thread at the moment and the guy is running a T3, you never know your luck....

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=58771.msg663244#new

Mick

[Terry in Australia]

I think Mick's been drinking again...................... 

[bucky katt]

all i'm going to say about this is................too bad they didnt kill his ass when they shot him. now the american people have to go through the expense of a trial and keeping his cowardly ass in prison. a couple more .223 rounds would have been alot cheaper.

[Retro Rocket]

Sorry guys,i had 3 posts open at the same time and when i came back with the link it put me in the last thread in line. I should wake up thoroughly before posting....

Mick

[Retro Rocket]

What post.....

Mick

[Terry in Australia]

all i'm going to say about this is................too bad they didnt kill his ass when they shot him. now the american people have to go through the expense of a trial and keeping his cowardly ass in prison. a couple more .223 rounds would have been alot cheaper.

That's interesting Fuzzy, I didn't realise he was still alive until I read your post, it'll be good to find out what his motivation really was, before they execute him. Cheers, Terry.

[bucky katt]

comatose and on a ventilator according to the latest reports. sure would be a damn shame if someone were to trip over the cord for that machine wouldnt it?

[Gordon]

comatose and on a ventilator according to the latest reports. sure would be a damn shame if someone were to trip over the cord for that machine wouldnt it?

Yes it would be a shame.  He needs to answer for what he's done, at least for the sake of the family and friends of his victims.  To die now would be the quick and easy way out for him.

[BobbyR]

Under the Code of Military Justice he is entitled to a Courts Martial.  If he wakes up it would be interesting if he is questioned so that they would find out if he a lone nut or part of something larger. In any event the penalty for murder is execution according to the code.

[bucky katt]

it would be interesting to see if he was acting alone or not, be a good thing to know i think.

[Hush]

One of the guys at work has an interesting thought, to counteract the mindless terrorism that can be driven by religious zealots possibly we need to play on their worst fears.
Our worst fears are realised when someone has no fear of strapping on a pile of explosives and walking into a crowded public area then detonating themselves for their cause.
Very hard to counter that (27 virgins aside).
Anyhow the Muslim faith professes that no man who partakes of pig meat shall be allowed into the kingdom of Allah.
Solution: gather up all the bits of exploded terrorist and wrap him in pig skin before burrial, this above all things would scare the bejezzus out of any Muslim zealot.
If you cannot be assured of a guaranteed pathway to your final reward, are you going to volunteer to go through with such an act?
It would only take a few such pig wrappings to cause a slow down in the body count, OK it's not very PC but so is blowing our young soldiers up and countless Muslim civilians in the process.
I'm only suggesting this for Muslim terrorists not the whole Muslim world by the way even if the Koran says that as an Infidel I must die.

[mick7504]

I wonder if it is at all possible for history to repeat itself.
A couple of years ago I visited Schloss Cecilienhof in Brandenburg Germany.  
Was in the same room that this conference took place.
It was a very sobering experience.


Churchill, Truman and Stalin.


Schloss Cecilienhof

[bucky katt]

One of the guys at work has an interesting thought, to counteract the mindless terrorism that can be driven by religious zealots possibly we need to play on their worst fears.
Our worst fears are realised when someone has no fear of strapping on a pile of explosives and walking into a crowded public area then detonating themselves for their cause.
Very hard to counter that (27 virgins aside).
Anyhow the Muslim faith professes that no man who partakes of pig meat shall be allowed into the kingdom of Allah.
Solution: gather up all the bits of exploded terrorist and wrap him in pig skin before burrial, this above all things would scare the bejezzus out of any Muslim zealot.
If you cannot be assured of a guaranteed pathway to your final reward, are you going to volunteer to go through with such an act?
It would only take a few such pig wrappings to cause a slow down in the body count, OK it's not very PC but so is blowing our young soldiers up and countless Muslim civilians in the process.
I'm only suggesting this for Muslim terrorists not the whole Muslim world by the way even if the Koran says that as an Infidel I must die.

funny you should mention this. I'm a huge Tom Clancy fan and in one part of his 2003 book, Teeth of the tiger, several groups of terrorists go to large shopping malls all throughout the US with machine guns to wreak havoc. well at a mall in the DC area 2 of the books characters are training in anti-terrorist skills at the same mall the terrorists strike at. as one of the muslim fanatics is dying, one of the trainees goes to a sporting goods store and gets a football and places it in the guys hands and tells him as he's dying "that there is a good ol' iowa pigskin youre holding in your hands" or something to that effect and the terrorist hears that just as he's dying...................

i'm just saying............

[BeSeeingYou]

There has been 75 suicides at Ft. Hood since the Iraq War started in 2003.  The number is skyrocketing in the military and is higher than it has ever been in the 30 years that it has been tracked.  This guy was about to be deployed to Afghanistan and did not support or believe in the war and did not want to go.  I think it has more to do with cracking under stress than some sort of terrorist act.  Obviously there is a serious problem with stress related violence and the ability to diagnose it before it reached a crisis point.

[cudjo]

I'm not trying to start anything here but as far as i am concerned " multiculturalism" just isn't working and yes Bucky we must stop pandering to minorities and start setting some pretty clear rules as to what these people can while they are living under OUR roof or every piece of tradition is going to be lost forever. We had a school here that removed our flag because it offended some minority and i think that is disgraceful, the flag went back up after a public uproar. I could go on for hours because i see my country changing for the worse and after saying this i will probably be labeled a racist. I loved my country the way it was, not the way it is going...

Mick

who is the minority, and what is there problem with your flag?

I know there are issues with the racist culture regarding the native people there, but i dont know about any of the specifics?

[cudjo]

We recently had an incident in Oz where a group of wannabe Muslim terrorists were caught planning to attempt a very similar shooting at an Army base in Sydney.

When I first heard about this one, I couldn't help but wonder if there was some link between the two incidents? Too early to tell, but I wouldn't be surprised.

Sure, not all Muslims are terrorists, but it seems that all terrorists (at the moment, at least) are Muslims........... And these are the people who want Christmas "toned down", so as not to offend "non Christians".  

It really depends on your point of view doesn't it?  Think of it from the Muslim point of view.  In Afghanistan the civilian death toll directly attributed to Coalition forces is around 6000.  In Iraq it's hard to get a hard number but it is in the tens of thousands.  That's Christians killing innocent Muslims.  Many in the Muslim world call this terrorism.   We sanitize it and call it "collateral damage" but when it happens to us we call it terrorism.  All the victims in terrorist attacks as well as the civilian victims in Iraq and Afghanistan are innocent civilians and they are dead.  What's the difference?  Is it that their lives are not as valuable as ours? Or because we cloak it in some legal veneer called war and somehow it's justifiable.  But innocent is still innocent and dead is dead.  I am not trying to justify or condone terrorism and I am as disgusted with it as the next person but I have to say that our hands are little cleaner. 

Thanks for saying it srust58.
I was hoping that someone would bring up the fact that any group killing another group causes terror, and are terrorists by default. The fact that someone brought their brand of murder to us (9/11) does not make it worse than our brand of murder ("war") I put quotes on "war", because that is what our government brands it in its current context. But war to me means soldiers from one government fighting soldiers from another.... Im not saying that we cant send our soldiers to fight if there is not an opposing 'army" im just saying lets be real about whats going on. Our soldiers are fighting against regular citizens, who have joined a militia. Those militias are usually formed by people who say that they are fighting against outside forces imposing on their culture.

Someone else here wrote that the reason that we are in afghan. Is because of money. I agree whole-heartedly. As a matter of fact in our recent "wars" $ is the primary if not the only reason. I could write a book on why I think that is the case, but I wont.

I will say that I can see the point of any group that is fighting against a foreign invader whatever that foreign invader says there reason is. It is not up to us or anyone to say how the next country builds their existence.

I would bet that a large percentage of us on this forum would be the first to join if not the leaders of militias if we had foreigners invading our country in any capacity. Sure a huge amount of the public would sit aside and wait things out but a lot of us would not sit around and wait to see what the next country would decide to do with us after the took control.

[Duke McDukiedook]

These are some rumors in the blogosphere that this guy was taking psychotropic drugs for depression, maybe he was one of the few that have suicidal/homicidal tendencies while on his meds. Small numbers of people in studies conducted on these types of drugs have been known to go bonkers when they are on these types of meds.

I'm not sure if religion really plays into this that much Hush, I think this guy just snapped and killed a lot of people. Some white dude does this and he is just a looney white dude that killed a bunch of people. This guy happens to be a Palestinian-American and everybody wants to label this a terrorist act.

[BobbyR]

There has been 75 suicides at Ft. Hood since the Iraq War started in 2003.  The number is skyrocketing in the military and is higher than it has ever been in the 30 years that it has been tracked.  This guy was about to be deployed to Afghanistan and did not support or believe in the war and did not want to go.  I think it has more to do with cracking under stress than some sort of terrorist act.  Obviously there is a serious problem with stress related violence and the ability to diagnose it before it reached a crisis point.

Our troops are exhausted. In Vietnam you did one tour as an enlisted man. You could opt for a second if you wished. These poor soldiers are on there 3rd and 4th tour into that hell, some have wives and kids at home. I imagine the PTSD cases will be much higher than any we have witnessed before. I supported this war at the onset, now I see the Nam all over again with lives lost and no positive outcome.

[Retro Rocket]

I'm not trying to start anything here but as far as i am concerned " multiculturalism" just isn't working and yes Bucky we must stop pandering to minorities and start setting some pretty clear rules as to what these people can while they are living under OUR roof or every piece of tradition is going to be lost forever. We had a school here that removed our flag because it offended some minority and i think that is disgraceful, the flag went back up after a public uproar. I could go on for hours because i see my country changing for the worse and after saying this i will probably be labeled a racist. I loved my country the way it was, not the way it is going...

Mick

who is the minority, and what is there problem with your flag?

I know there are issues with the racist culture regarding the native people there, but i dont know about any of the specifics?

Not only was the flag removed from a school {but reinstated soon after}, it was banned from one of our biggest outdoor concerts, "the big day out". This was after Muslims went to one of Australia's most popular beaches and started abusing Aussie girls because of their lack of clothes and bashing life guards on the beach. This led to a riot where the Aussie flag was worn proudly by the Australians protesting their behaviour , the PC idiots turned this into a racist gesture leading to the ban of the flag at the concert, it had the reverse effect as thousands of people turned up with the flag. A teacher at another school was sacked for recommending that the Aussie national anthem be played in the morning at the school, the guy was sacked because it upset the Muslims who refused to have the anthem played. This sort of crap is killing everything we value as tradition in Australia and we will soon be a country with no identity at all. The Muslims make no apology for this as they think it is their rite to do this and also don't hide the fact that they want to make Islam the number one religion in the pacific and with Indonesia {the largest Muslim population on the planet} sitting right above us, makes this a scary { and very possible}prospect. It is obvious that you don't believe in the wars OS and that is fine {i don't like it either} but there is no denying this bloke was a devout Muslim and with his views on this subject shouldn't have been in Fort Hood at all. The armed forces are the ones there to protect our way of life and are our last line of defense, I don't think it is particularly smart to have people that don't share our ideals in the front line of our defense forces, this is only asking for trouble. Think about it, you are defending your country and for some reason your family becomes a target, do you support your country or your family, i know that is very vague but it makes the point, is it really worth the risk.? I expect to be called "racist" again as it seems the ones that take the neutral middle ground need labels to make them feel better or make their point. I am NOT racist i am just sick of the pandering to minorities at the expense of the rest.....You want to live in my country then respect my way of life or get out...

Mick

[MCRider]

Without picking any certain post to reply to, I'd like to input 2 cents.

Perspective: AS wars go, the "war on terror" has not been a major military event. Korea was 50,000 US dead in 2 years. Nam was 50,000 US dead in 9+ years. Likely more US soldiers were killed in the Battle of Gettysburg (3 days) than so far in Iraq and Afghanistan.

This is just for perspective, and TPTB know this. and money spent on military has near the highest if not the highest economic multiplier of all "stimulus" spending a government can do.

We were told at the onset that this would last a long time. I expect it to be everybit the "cold War' until one side or the other capitulates.

The bad guys are relentless and have no desire to work this out. I lived my entire life till the end of the cold war "in doubt of the mushroom shaped cloud" as the Kingston Trio put it. Now we live in doubt of the Terrorist. Little is new here.

If we don't define the battlefield, previously Iraq and now Afghanistan, they will define it for us, make no mistake. We would be fighting this in Atlanta or Detroit or Indy, if not in Afghanistan. They have told us so, and 9/11 is the proof.

Oil and heroin and other market issues are an unfortunate distraction from the real and present threat. They exist most unfortunately as no human or society is lilly pure.

The march of terror and militant islam is a real thing and must be dealt with, and in dealing with it many mistakes have and are yet to be made. That should not mask or otherwise detract from the real and brutal threat to life that exists.

[BobbyR]

If we don't define the battlefield, previously Iraq and now Afghanistan, they will define it for us, make no mistake. We would be fighting this in Atlanta or Detroit or Indy, if not in Afghanistan. They have told us so, and 9/11 is the proof.

The point is, we have not defined the battlefield. Bin Laden is still on the loose. Rather than fight scattered firefights, you find the leaders and kill them, no matter where they are in the World. Quietly and effectively. No place is safe. That is terror battling terror.

 

[Retro Rocket]

If we don't define the battlefield, previously Iraq and now Afghanistan, they will define it for us, make no mistake. We would be fighting this in Atlanta or Detroit or Indy, if not in Afghanistan. They have told us so, and 9/11 is the proof.

The point is, we have not defined the battlefield. Bin Laden is still on the loose. Rather than fight scattered firefights, you find the leaders and kill them, no matter where they are in the World. Quietly and effectively. No place is safe. That is terror battling terror.

 

And you know what Bobby, the ironic thing here is, it seems anyone who wants to, can go and train in Afghanistan and fight their Jihad and a lot of these guys actually meet up with Bin Laden personally, it is about time someone infiltrated this inner circle and just puts a bullet in his head, surely its not that hard. It would be a sacrifice for the guy doing the shooting but we are already sacrificing troops for no gain at present.

Mick

[Hush]

OK time out for some humour:


Australian Shooter Magazine

An interesting letter in the Australian Shooter Magazine this week,
which I quote:

"If you consider that there has been an average of
160,000 troops in the  Iraq  theater of operations during the past 22
months, and a total of 2112 deaths, that gives a firearm death rate of
60 per 100,000 soldiers.

The firearm death rate in  Washington  ,  DC  is 80.6 per 100,000 for the
same period. That means you are about 25 percent more likely to be
shot and killed in the  US  capital, which has some of the strictest gun
control laws in the  US  , than you are in  Iraq  .
 
Conclusion: The  US  should pull out of  Washington  ."

 

[Retro Rocket]

Nice one Hush, i had seen that before and still had a chuckle then....

Mick