Author Topic: CB750 clutch center question  (Read 2346 times)

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Offline MCRider

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CB750 clutch center question
« on: November 05, 2009, 01:13:04 PM »
Hello: Looking at the side of the clutch center that would be the inside, as it resides on the mainshaft, there is a shoulder about 2" in diameter, about 3/8" wide. On that shoulder, on my older clutch center (pre K2) there is a steel ring.

On the clutch center i am going to use, newer (post K2) there is no steel ring. I'm thinking that it may have fallen off when i hed it cryogenically treated. The aluminum would have shrunk faster and the ring fell off.

Or do the newer model hubs even have them?

You can see in this picture the older hub on left with stel ring around the shoulder.



On the right, the shoulder is bare aluminum, with a chanfered edge.  The edge on the left would not be chamfered, if the ring was off of it.

Unfortunately they carry different part numbers for a different reason. The newer hub hass holes drilled in it to get oil in between the plates. Maybe they are holes to let oil out of the clutchpack I don't know. Either way that is enough to require a different part number and deosn't lend any help to my question.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2009, 04:37:58 PM by MCRider »
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Offline Bill/BentON Racing

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Re: CB750 clutch center question
« Reply #1 on: November 05, 2009, 05:41:09 PM »
MC,I think you right,the one on right doesn't look like it ever had one,machined/chamfered edge as you stated makes it look like a factory change along w/holes.Bill
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Offline MCRider

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Re: CB750 clutch center question
« Reply #2 on: November 05, 2009, 05:57:12 PM »
MC,I think you right,the one on right doesn't look like it ever had one,machined/chamfered edge as you stated makes it look like a factory change along w/holes.Bill
That's what I'm thinking but i wish i could know for sure. The steel ring almost looks like a bearing race.  But I fitted all the pieces together and that part of the hub touches nothing and does nothing but standoff a thrust washer to keep it from bottoming on the clutch basket. it just spins free to the air.
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Offline MCRider

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Re: CB750 clutch center question
« Reply #3 on: November 05, 2009, 05:59:03 PM »
I got a call into the cryo tech. He said he did them himself and did not see a ring left behind when he unloaded the freezer. But he'll look again.
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Re: CB750 clutch center question
« Reply #4 on: November 05, 2009, 07:27:15 PM »
The hub changed during the tail end of the K1 engines, which appeared up until the early K2 bikes.

The later hubs had a few more oil holes in them, in different locations, from the earlier ones. This was done to improve the clutch smoothness, reducing the 'grabby' in-out box feeling of the earlier clutches. I've got a post in the "Thoughts" section about it, recently updated (I think Steve put it near the end of those pages).

From all appearances, it seemed that Honda seriously overbuilt the earlier engines. There were things like hardened and lightened cam sprockets, hand-ported heads, hand-balanced piston sets, sized-and-shimmed transmission spacers, and a number of other things that slowly disappeared as the horsepower dropped in the later style engines. This is the main reason why so many K0 part numbers are different from the later bikes, while the parts usually fit just fine between the models. Adding a steel band around the clutch hub, to contain the torque and strengthen a hub that the engineers were unsure of under American abuse, would be typical of the changes that came and went. Drag racers used a similar trick: they would cut into the hub a bit to add the collar, then also run a tiny ball mill down the sharp edges of tee inside corners of the splines to stress-relieve them (it worked!).
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Offline w1sa

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Re: CB750 clutch center question
« Reply #5 on: November 05, 2009, 07:48:23 PM »
Could it also have served to protect the clutch centre from excessive fretting and consequent fatigue by the clutch pressure plate under high load applications. And as you say, later deemed unnecessary?

Offline MCRider

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Re: CB750 clutch center question
« Reply #6 on: November 06, 2009, 05:46:44 AM »
Thanks H-man. But from your post its not clear if you are saying for sure this was one of the changes they made or if it was a change that "was typical" to have been made.

My original bike was K2. My parts bike from which I'm getting parts was at least a K3.

Short of a positve affirmation from you,  it sure would set my mind at ease if someone had a K2+ hub out to look at.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2009, 05:50:13 AM by MCRider »
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1988 NT650 HawkGT;  1978 CB400 Hawk;  1975 CB750F -Free Bird; 1968 CB77 Super Hawk -Ticker;  Phaedrus 1972 CB750K2- Build Thread
"Sometimes the light's all shining on me, other times I can barely see, lately it appears to me, what a long, strange trip its been."