Topic: Over 40 rider? From the Washington Post...

[rpyles]

Since Quail's poll shows half of us are over 40, I thought this article from Friday's Post might be of interest:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A7460-2005Apr21.html

I live in Maryland, and always wore a helmet even when we didn't have to.
Be careful out there.
Richard

[Barrett99]

Good article.  My wife rotates call with an organ transplant team, quite a few of her donations are the result of motorcycle
accidents.  SC repealed the helmet laws around 1980 and the fatality rate has been climbing ever since.  I wear a helmet
to play ice hockey too.  You only get one head, one set of eyes, and one real set of teeth.  Better to protect what you have
if your going to engage in activities that involve moderate or significant risk to the participant.  Unfortunately a lot of people make
poor decisions and some pay for it with their lives.  A helmet may not save your life in a crash but the odds are surely better for you
with one than without.  We choose the amount of risk we can live with but the choice affects others also.

[Bob Wessner]

Good article, it's always worthwhile to see something that keeps us anchored in reality. That said, I think the headline is misleading. I'm not a statistician, but I am inclined to go with the theory that the over 40 segment is the fastest growing segment and when you look at the machines they ride, particularly Harleys, there is a certian amount of "I finally made it" status symboling there. The bikes are not cheap and it takes a certian amount of wealth accumulation (or high debt) to afford one.

[kghost]

I wonder how much the "reentry rider" affects these stats.

[StephenB]

How can somebody state he feels safer without a helmet! It is not our riding style that kills us, it is the   cars on the road which fail to see us because of our small silhouette and all the rest of it! And it is the   drivers of those cars who obvioulsy fail to recognize that we don't have no bumper and no airbag and no side airbag and no rear airbag and whatnot and who don't know how fast these things called motorbikes can go . And it is because those "reentry" riders on Harleys and 300kg 1300cc Hayabusa and whatnot who buy machines they cant handle well enough e.g. at low speed around town. They may have had a 125cc in the 70s or 80s and think they can handle it because they're wiser now. Reality is: they buying the wrong bikes either for their height or their abilities or whatever. They have to park in a way that they don't have to push their bikes back or forth or around the corner. Let them go on a parking lot and do the old stopping and swerve manoeuvers and eights and stuff. I have seen them on the Motorcycle Safety Courses! Believe you me, some of them I would not have allowed back on the road.

I am getting a chrisis when I hear that: we have not done a research yet! You don't need a friggn' research to know all that. Bollocks.

Why do I know: 14 riders aged 28 to 66 on a 10day trip through the European Alpes, various bikes fell over in the parking lot or low speed cornering, various people had to be pushed out of parking lots, three accidents with 2 being too fast around the corner and one on slippery road, all with no major consequences and able to continue, some nearly giving up because of the stress of 300km a day on twisty roads in the European Alpes, at least two guys aged mid 40s and mid 50 with brandnew f&*^ing big sportstourers (FJ1300 and K1200LT) which were clearly not up for it and both (two-up with wives) layed them down a couple of times whilst manoeuvering. So the guys with the problems were the over 40 ones, including me unfortunately. I was the guy sliding away on the wet road at about 25mph. Still got 8 lives left though. But I learned my lesson with rain just starting to fall. Geez, I still can't believe it. The guy in front of me took the same line and the same speed and he did not slip. WHY?   OH Why? I think tires, blooming non-sticking Metzelers

Sorry for the rant, but the reality is: some people just buy the wrong bike and get killed and I am sorry for the families they leave behind. Honestly, I think my wife is always worried when I am on the road. I am glad she still lets me go and ride my bikes.

Stephen in Ontario.

[Bob Wessner]

I remember a little tidbit of info from somewhere long ago, that right after it starts raining is the most treachorous period. Prior to the rain there's an accumlation of fine rubber, oil, fuel and whatever on the dry road surface from traffic. It takes a certian amount of rain and time to wash this off. Then your back to just plain dangerous wet. Ever since, if I can't avoid getting caught out on wet roads, I at least wait for a while. I'm not sure this ever saved me from anything, but it makes me feel better.

[Kevin D]

  I'm a 50 yr old re-entry rider riding the same CB that I put away 20 years ago. After my first (re)venture out I came home and considered what was different from 25 years ago. There were no cell phones, no Explorers with basher bars, no road rage. Every family now has 2 or more cars/suvs. Lots more traffic now, endless semis on the interstate leaving their retreads where they fall. Anybody ever hit one of those things? Roads here are now lousy, curbs are lined with 4 inch chunks of broken pavement. What used to be country roads is now mainstream suburbia, country roads are 25 miles away.
  Sooooo, I'm a fair weather and sunshine rider only. I pick my route carefully to avoid all the nonsense. Hines Park Drive is nice, winding road, few traffic lights. 7 mile rd, North Territorial, Huron River Drive, Pontiac Trail. I envy you guys that live where there are lots of good cycling roads.
  After one particularly nice ride last year, I came home and saw a TV news story where 2 cyclists were killed on Huron River Drive. It seems a crotch rocket crossed over through curves and head onned with a Gold Wing. I was chilled, and I still consider it as some kind of warning, as I was there only a few hours earlier.
  I tell people that there is no such thing as a fender-bender when you're riding. The cyclist who tangles with a vehicle will have broken legs or worse. 
  I still love to ride this bike. But it begs to be ridden hard and fast. When the tach passes 5000 rpm it turns into a rocket ship, but you all know that, don't you?  So I hold it back as much as I can and foul the plugs. I think it's probably a lot tougher for an 18yr old on a GSXR.

[jsaab2748]

That article seems to be about older riders and not necessarily EXPERIENCED riders.

[kghost]

Well, What I was driving at was that your reaction times and reflexes do tend to degrade as one ages. I'm probably not nearly as good as I used to think I was. Ride in your youth then get back into riding in middle age and things have changed. I agree with the post above, that road conditions have changed. There are also physiolgical changes for older riders. I had a friend who crashed his dirt bike riding over a curb! At the last minute his bi-focals caused the curb to jump.

I guess the old saying applies: Experience and Treachery beat youth and exuberance.

The problem with re-entry riders is they don't have any experience or treachery. Maybe they think they do.

Sometimes you eat the Bear sometimes the Bear eats you.

[Bob Wessner]

Couldn't agree more on the reaction time, etc. I would add to that my night vision is not what it use to be as well. All these factors have altered my riding plans. I don't ride at night, in the rain or heavy traffic. It's not all that limiting really.

[kghost]

There's another old saying in Aviation......

A superior pilot uses superior judgement to avoid situations requiring superior skill.

I think the more miles you get "in the saddle" as they say in Texas the better you get at recognizing hazards and rapidly destabilizing situations. Wise riders don't put themselves in nearly as many bad spots.
 
Kudo's to you Bob for recognizing areas where you no longer feel comfortable. Its a sport about fun, if its not fun anymore don't do it. The safer you are the longer you will ride

[jsaab2748]

Maybe I missed something when I read the article. I just thought it had a slant to it. I took it as meaning that the sport is now more dangerous based on rider's age more than anything else. It made me wonder what percentage of the statistics involve middle aged people who've never even owned a bike before this latest "custom bike craze" hit. A lot of these guys have little or no previous riding experience. I do think that kghost brings up a good point in his last post though, and that's what separates most of us from the statistics. just my opinion.......ride long and safe....jim

[Bob Wessner]

I agree, I thought it had the same slant. I cut this from the Hurt Report;

"20. Motorcycle riders between the ages of 16 and 24 are significantly overrepresented in accidents; motorcycle riders between the ages of 30 and 50 are significantly underrepresented. Although the majority of the accident-involved motorcycle riders are male (96%), the female motorcycles riders are significantly overrepresented in the accident data."

I'm not sure if they are suggesting no one over 50 should be riding, or just did not include them. I hope it is not the former.

[Zeke]

I would say that age has little to do with it.

Experience has to be part of it.  But I think it's mostly psychological.

I use my bike to commute to work.  The traffic is crazy.  I can't and don't relax at all when I ride.  When I ride on the weekends the traffic isn't as crazy but I still pay extra attention -- way more attention than when I drive a car.  Also, I have the "benefit" of having been in an accident already and I won't be forgetting that anytime soon.

The baby boomers referred to in the article probably tend to "cruise" more, like going out for a sunday drive.  You simply can't afford to ever let your mind wander when you ride or you run the risk of becoming a statistic.

Ride Safe, and keep your thumb on the horn button.

Zeke

[david 750f]

A little more info on the US motorcycle safety study from a Canadian viewpoint..

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1106866212262&call_pageid=1082109820622&col=1082109820617

David

[Bob Wessner]

Interesting Dave. Sounds again like, helmet, helmet, helmet. I know some folks abore the State forcing them to do something, even if they voluntarily and intelligently use helmets. The problem with that is there are still far too many who don't get it or don't care and their actions influence the insurance rates the rest of us have to pay. I would rather not subsidize them until Darwin's Law ultimatel solves the problem.

[BobbyR]

I think all of the posts have valid points. I stopped riding in 1980 at 30 and picked it back up at age 45. Was I better at 25 than 45? I don't think so. One problem is Bikes are very easy to operate, but riding is a different matter. You get on a bike after a few years and you worry more about shifting than anything else. After and hour or two, you feel so comfortable, you feel you have never been better. Very dangerous illusion. When I got back on I had a string of exciting rides, now there is less excitement and more pleasure since I have fewer exciting close calls. I now anticipate to make up for slightly slower reflexes. I am not a the rider I was at 25, I am better. I am not sure at what age, I will stop riding. There has to come a time, I just hope i am smart enough to realize it. 

[74cb750]

one of the reasons I would guess the fatality reate in Canada is lower than in the US...less twisty roads. Could this be?

[low-side]

     I don't think age has much to do with it.  I'm 28 and got passed through a curve by a guy on a Beemer like I was parked the other day.  I stopped for gas and there he was and he was probably 60 or better.  Later on that day I came up on a group of riders who seemed to be in their 30s to 40s on Harleys.  You could see most of their sissy bars twitching back and forth going through a long, fast sweeper - they were steering, not counter-steering.  It's about skill and experience.  The guy on the Beemer has probably ridden something since he was a teenager or earlier while the guys on the Harleys probably haven't been riding very long.  Talking to guys at stations, a lot of people in their 40s and 50s are motorcycle newbies and think they can do the same things as any other motorcyclist - ride in the rain, draft off of cars and trucks, ride fast, corner hard, and you can tell that they have little to no experience with these things.  There's almost a sense of entitlement to do those things because they have made the effort to do so, and they are entitled to suffer no consequences for a failed effort.
     You've got to know your limitations and realize what can happen.  Since getting knocked down in Jan. of '98, I can't take a right hand corner for crap (shoulder injury).  I don't even try.  I can lean the bike over on lefts til I'm scraping shiny expensive parts though.  I get passed by cars at night all the time because I'm watching for deer and trying not to outrun my headlight.  Don't corner fast if you can't see the road surface well enough to tell if there's sand or pea gravel on it.  Simple things I do to stay alive and able to ride another day.  And I always have a DOT and Snell approved full face helmet along with a leather jacket and boots - even if it's 110 out because road rash sucks.
     

[Uncle Ernie]

I'm seeing more and more people get into the sport with no experience starting out with huge bikes they have no clue about. How often have I watched guys paddling with their feet as they go slow, hitting the brakes hard and swerving wide to avoid a manhole cover on a nice day, over cooking a turn while trying to keep up with some friends and having no idea how to scrub off speed (and no idea he should have entered a lot slower), etc? Wasn't it Hurt who said that in most solo accidents, the rider did nothing but stiff-arm and grimmace? If I'm honest, 98% of the problems I've had were at least partially my fault (went over on my 400/4 at about 10mph in the middle of a turn for no apparent reason, and a car hit me while looking right at me).  The more experience you have, the less you have to think, so I susoect your reaction time is just as good as someone younger.
And statistics can be made to say anything you want.

[Duke McDukiedook]

Since it seems to be fashionable to resurrect old threads this one seemed like a dandy.

"Personal choice is what we want," said Jim Cannon, 45, of Richmond, head of the Virginia Coalition of Motorcyclists. "In my case, I feel a lot more aware without a helmet. I feel unencumbered. Truth be known, I'm probably a safer rider without a helmet."

Egads, I hope nobody is depending on this guy to bring home any bacon. 

[vfourfreak]

Since it seems to be fashionable to resurrect old threads this one seemed like a dandy.

"Personal choice is what we want," said Jim Cannon, 45, of Richmond, head of the Virginia Coalition of Motorcyclists. "In my case, I feel a lot more aware without a helmet. I feel unencumbered. Truth be known, I'm probably a safer rider without a helmet."

Egads, I hope nobody is depending on this guy to bring home any bacon. 

Could fit nicely on a tombstone.

If the FIM allowed racers compete without a helmet, how many do you think would do so ? In my estimation, the square root of fcuk all. Safer rider without a helmet my arse.

Kev

[FlatShoalsRoad]

On July 1st I was first on the scene to a bicyclist who hit a telephone pole. He wasn't wearing a helmet, and was crumpled on the ground with blood and little chunks of bone dripping out of his ear. Still at Grady Hospital. And that was a bicyclist! The damage at moto speed would be catastrophic.

Sent from my HTC6500LVW using Tapatalk

[vfourfreak]

On July 1st I was first on the scene to a bicyclist who hit a telephone pole. He wasn't wearing a helmet, and was crumpled on the ground with blood and little chunks of bone dripping out of his ear. Still at Grady Hospital. And that was a bicyclist! The damage at moto speed would be catastrophic.

Sent from my HTC6500LVW using Tapatalk

Graphic description ! But that is needed so numbskulls (pun intended) get to realise the bad things that can happen. Look at M. Schumacher, a man who knows how to handle risk and of huge experience both on the track and the slopes, in a coma almost 7 months now. He may recover, and I hope he does. If however he had not been wearing a helmet I would say he would have succumbed long ago, if not on the spot.

Wear a helmet everyone, please. And the best of other equipment, gloves, boots, jacket etc

Kev

[faux fiddy]

Some guy shut down hiway 9 yeaterday almost 24 hours ago. He rear ended a trailor, and from what I saw he the bike was a cruiser, probably Harley.


Since they mention Harley, I would like to see percentages of death by different manufacture.