Topic: The military's oath to protect the US against threats both domestic and foreign

[ElCheapo]

With all of the stuff in the news it make me sick what GW is doing. Now I will be marked as a terrorist for even saying so, too late (was done two summers ago, so who gives a *uck?).  Nixon was impeached for the very same actions that our president is in now. If my child said they wanted to be president I would have to have their head examined.

If memory serves me right, American servicemen (myself included) were sworn an oath to protect the states from enemies both domestic and foreign. So my question is why is a domestic terrorist allowed to continue to run the US? The fact that this is happening is all show a dereliction of military duties sworn by the US military. So in my opinion, those who are "serving" in the great terrorist war should be tried in court for dereliction of duties. They have failed to protect the US from domestic terrorists (present cabinet). In this they are in dereliction of their duties.

I don’t buy the hero crap coming from the Chicken Noodle Network (CNN) and other news organizations. They are not heroes. They are fools lead by bigger fools. In this they forget their job.

Nothing more fun than the powers that be telling you that it is ok to kill unarmed people of a foreign country.

Our government in the US will (like many other governments) will continue to do exactly as they please until they are called on it. They will lie until caught.

This is all stated by Marine Sgt. Thomas Neubauer – Scout sniper/ E.O.D.

[cbjunkie]

way to break open a can...

thanks for your service - i always wanted to be a sniper - too late now, oh well.
keep your head down!

[ElCheapo]

It's never to late to learn how to plot and successfully make a shot at 1800 meters 

No need to thank me. Myself and my unit were used to take down Noriega and his buddies. We ran missions cutting off his money long before the bug hurahh. I was there atleast a year before anyone even knew. Why do you think he was hiding and waiting to give up? I can tell it was not the shear might or fear of the Marines invading. He had no money and no coherts left alive. They were dead from lone bullets in the night. He was out of money and support.

[ElCheapo]

Nothing like SMASHING a can open with the ole' sledge o' matic 

[cbjunkie]

hmmm...maybe they ate already... 

[Gordon]

hmmm...maybe they ate already... 

I prefer to wait until I've had at least a few beers before getting into a good political discussion.

[ElCheapo]

Politics, beer, killing people. Yep, those go together.

[DiscoEd]

Nothing more fun than the powers that be telling you that it is ok to kill unarmed people of a foreign country.

This is all stated by Marine Sgt. Thomas Neubauer – Scout sniper/ E.O.D.

Hmmm...seems an odd quote from a sniper. From a sniper's perspective, I would think it would be more fun and exhillerating to go after the armed people of a foreign country.

Man ElCheapo, you sure know how to write a subject line! 

[cbjunkie]

the only thing better than beer, politics and killing people is beer, politics, killing people and christmas cheer!

[Uncle Ernie]

Sorry. You sound like you you want a fight, but I happen to agree. Who better to protest a war than a veteran?
If you want an argument, there're one or two places I can recommend.

[ElCheapo]

Nothing more fun than the powers that be telling you that it is ok to kill unarmed people of a foreign country.

This is all stated by Marine Sgt. Thomas Neubauer – Scout sniper/ E.O.D.

Hmmm...seems an odd quote from a sniper. From a sniper's perspective, I would think it would be more fun and exhillerating to go after the armed people of a foreign country.

Man ElCheapo, you sure know how to write a subject line! 

Really guys I am not looking for a fight. These matters are never "fun". This is a common misperception that many do have. I can tell you it is hard to shoot a man and realize that this guy is following command much like my own will not get home to see his little girl. This is tough only because I have young children of my own.

[cbjunkie]

I have nothing but respect for the iron-willed men and women who stand in the gap between my easy life and the vast world of violence. I loathe that their vow of obedience sometimes leads them down paths that I, who stand outside and judge from a different perspective, cannot believe are true, cannot pretend to support, and would never take myself.

[ElCheapo]

At that point in my life I was dumb, with a death wish. At 18 I could shoot anything and macho any woman on the planet into ecstasy. Bullet proof and invisable.

[DiscoEd]

Be convinced that to be happy means to be free and that to be free means to be brave. Therefore do not take lightly the perils of war.
--Thucydides-- Approx. 431 B.C.E.

ElCheapo, surely you must know that "fun" is subjective. One man's pleasure can surely be another man's pain. In the radio show The Shadow, it was said "Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men?”.

I believe that in 2005 we can answer this question. The answer is... other men.

The millions killed by Hitler knew it, The 25 million killed by Stallin knew it, The 2.5 or so million killed by Pol Pot knew it. 5000 gassed Kurdish people knew it. The list goes on.

So yes, while the man of conscience, including myself, might not find "fun" is such things... there is and has been clearly no shortage of those who do.

-DiscoEd

[cbjunkie]

yo, DE - i think you missed the bitter sarcasm.  some might find it "fun"...i don't think il heepo is one of them. he sounds like a man who woke from the dream of youth to discover the horror of being led by twisted souls who know better but ignore it in the heady rush of greed and fear.

maybe...

[DiscoEd]

yo, DE - i think you missed the bitter sarcasm.  some might find it "fun"...i don't think il heepo is one of them. he sounds like a man who woke from the dream of youth to discover the horror of being led by twisted souls who know better but ignore it in the heady rush of greed and fear.

maybe...

CBJ, Nope not missed. Read and understood. I was simply pointing out that although some such as The Cheap One and myself may not see the "fun" in it, there are those who have and who do.

-DiscoEd

[martini]

Maybe there is hope.

One of the most depressing days of my life was when GW got re-elected. I just couldn't believe people could be that easily manipulated and led.

[Jonesy]

hmmm...maybe they ate already...

I prefer to wait until I've had at least a few beers before getting into a good political discussion.

(Hence the origin of the saying "You can't reason with a drunk...")

My blood has boiled long enough reading these posts. I figured I'd better wait a day to cool off before I say something...

So, it sounds like what you guys are saying is ol' Dubya is a terrorist and all who voted for him are terrorists. So, in keeping with what has been preached, lets go back and find out who voted for who and bump off all those who supported him and make the ol' US of A great again and terrorist free. Next thing you know, we'll have elections where only one guy is running and the vote is a mere formality. Sounds like dictatorship to me...  (Please note the sarcasm!)

COME ON, PEOPLE!!

It's everyone's civic duty. The nation spoke. We made out bed, now we are lying in it. If things go to hell, that's why we have term limits. I don't like war any more than the next person. After getting to know a few people that lived over in the middle east and hearing their views on the subject, I have a different perspective. I guess I hold the view they had of Harry Truman in his later term: "Don't shoot the piano player, he's doing the best he can.."

Gosh, I sure miss the days when this country was more unified. But, there is the reality of the world we are in right now. I think George Carlin put it best: "We (as Americans) are always willing to trade more and more of our freedom the for the feeling (the illusion) of safety."

BTW... I thought this was a motorcycle forum. Wasn't expecting to find heated politcal diatribes.

[ElCheapo]

I was just pointing out that we have all been duped. I have friends that voted for the guy (neither here nor there), But I can tell you many of the supporters are calling for his head. Not based on politics, based on the fact that we in the states were duped.

No body likes politics or religion.. Both of these run as they please until they are caught.

I am just saying that.......... no one cares and it shows. Not sure why I served.... Fellow vets (from multiple conflicts) share my view.

[Gordon]

BTW... I thought this was a motorcycle forum. Wasn't expecting to find heated politcal diatribes.

Quoting from the main page:  "Open Forum
                                             Feel free to talk about anything and everything in this forum."

[dusterdude]

gordon,1 applause for you sir.

[clarkjh]

gordon,1 applause for you sir.

as do I

James

[ElCheapo]

Gordon you get one from me too

[Japbikemike]

I was just pointing out that we have all been duped.

Funny...I thought the same thing in '92 when I resigned my commission and again in '96.

[Jonesy]

Hey Gordo- DUH!

I know that's what it says at the top of the page. You obviously missed where I wrote about the sarcasm. I know, it's perfectly permissable to discuss anything here. I'm just making the point that if I'm looking for a hot political debate, if I was perusing the net I doubt the SOHC/4 website would be the first place I'd look. I was very upset with El Cheapo's original comments. After his explanation, I see I read too deeply into his post. I now understand better what he is saying. I concur the basis of why we went over there is very shaky, to say the least.

However, point taken. These instances remind me of why I should stay out of these arguments. Half of you hate me now, fine. Smite me all you want. I guess I should be thankful we have the right to argue these things and have forums like this to convey them, despite the fact it's painful at times.

"Democracy is a horrible form of government. But, I'm afraid it's the best we've come up with so far..." -Thomas Jefferson

(BTW- Cheapo, you have my utmost respect. Semper Fidelis!)