Author Topic: Advice for a Newb  (Read 1141 times)

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Offline The Mayor

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Advice for a Newb
« on: November 16, 2009, 09:00:14 am »
'73 CB350F. I've had the carbs vacuum synced, and the bike starts easily enough, and accelerates seemingly smooth. But I've noticed that when once its warm (maybe after about 10 minutes of riding?) it's got a tendency to hang a bit on the idle. If I pull the clutch out enough to drop it down, it will stay though. Sometimes will drop if I 'blip' it too.

I'm still new to these bikes, and have plenty to check on it - but was hoping that maybe someone could point me in a logical direction on this one? Ideas?

Also, having an actually choke is new to me as well. I realize that with later 'chokes', it was only a fuel enrichment circuit being opened, thus it raised my rpms too. On a well tuned CB350F, what should I expect? Should the choke raised the rpms at all, or just make it easier to start? Should idle raise or drop as the bike warms up?

Thanks and sorry for any dumb questions!

Offline the technological J

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Re: Advice for a Newb
« Reply #1 on: November 16, 2009, 09:26:38 am »
i think it should drop.. after the bike warms up do u "turn off" the choke.. u could check ur fuel mix screws.. what kind of shape is ur air filter in?
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Offline the technological J

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Re: Advice for a Newb
« Reply #2 on: November 16, 2009, 09:28:59 am »
i think it should drop.. after the bike warms up do u "turn off" the choke.. u could check ur fuel mix screws.. what kind of shape is ur air filter in?
i reread ur post and the direction i would point u in would be the points.... bad timing would affect ur idle.. have u done ur valve clearances? hopefully u have because the carb synch is the last on the tune up list
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Offline Gordon

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Re: Advice for a Newb
« Reply #3 on: November 16, 2009, 09:53:11 am »
A common cause of the rpms hanging up is out of synch carbs.  You said you "had the carbs synched", did you do it, or did somebody else?  It seems like more often than not, when you pay somebody else to do carb work on these bikes, it doesn't get done all that well. 

Another issue could be one or more leaks in the rubber insulators between the carbs and the cylinder head.  You can try spraying some carb cleaner all around them with the engine running.  If the rpms change from doing this, then you have a leak.

It could also be as simple as needing to adjust the idle stop screw.  I don't remember exactly where it is on the 350F, but you'll see it somewhere on the carb rack.  It's the single, big, knurled edge thumb screw.  Turn in to increase idle, turn out to lower. 

You're correct in that the choke on your bike is not an enrichening circuit like on newer bikes.  It simply closes a plate in each carb to increase the vacuum on the jets and pulls in more fuel for a given volume of air.  Yours is also one of the earlier style chokes that does not have an idle speed cam on the choke arm, so closing the choke has no physical effect on the idle setting.  When the engine is cold, you either have to hold the throttle open with your hand on the grip, or turn in the idle stop screw, and then turn it back down when the engine is warm. 

Offline The Mayor

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Re: Advice for a Newb
« Reply #4 on: November 16, 2009, 10:07:41 am »
Thanks for all the answers. I haven't checked my valve clearances yet - I synced the the carbs because they had been off and supposedly cleaned and maybe rebuilt? I knew they were way, way off. I had a guy do it that works only on old Japanese bikes - was there while he did it and they seemed to sync pretty easily with the gauges.

The air filter is new, and I was missing the lid on the air box, so I one and sealed in with electrical tape. The rubber seems to be all good, no cracks. We checked for leaks with cleaner before we synced and didn't notice anything.

I generally have to turn the idle screw out a bit after it's warm, and it will idle steady at 1200. But still wants to hang - not all the time but maybe 60% of the time - at around 2000-2500 rpms after it gets hot.

I also haven't checked the timing. The points looked good to me, but like I said, I could be missing something.

Offline Gordon

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Re: Advice for a Newb
« Reply #5 on: November 16, 2009, 10:49:24 am »
The air filter is new, and I was missing the lid on the air box, so I one and sealed in with electrical tape.

This is at least part, if not all of the problem.  The "lid" over the air filter housing isn't supposed to be sealed.  That's where the air intake is.  If you sealed it up, your engine is having a really hard time getting air. 

Also, as Gabriel said, the carb synch is the last thing to be done after a full tune-up, because everything else you do will have an effect on the vacuum in the cylinders.  Do the complete tune-up, re-synchronize the carbs, and let your engine breathe, and it will run a lot better. 

Offline The Mayor

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Re: Advice for a Newb
« Reply #6 on: November 16, 2009, 11:10:50 am »
So it's designed to pull air from around the cover that goes on top of the air filter? I figured it relied on the air intake tube for that alone, and that it was probably getting too much with the air box wide open?

I realize that it needs a complete tune-up, albeit it's pretty close as is I think. I knew the carbs were way way off so I synced them just as a starting point, knowing that I would do them again later. I mainly just wondered if the hanging idle could be the result of something more obviously specific - like it being a symptom of something that only a dirty carb, etc could cause - considering it seems to run fine otherwise.

Thanks again for all the response, it'll be getting all that attention soon.

Offline hoodellyhoo

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Re: Advice for a Newb
« Reply #7 on: November 16, 2009, 11:53:34 am »
You are correct that the air comes from the air intake tube. Sealing the airbox cover won't matter.
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Offline Gordon

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Re: Advice for a Newb
« Reply #8 on: November 16, 2009, 05:20:53 pm »
You are correct that the air comes from the air intake tube. Sealing the airbox cover won't matter.

Sorry, it seems I've forgotten what the air box/intake for the 350 and 400 looks like.  It doesn't pull in air through a screened inlet in the tool tray/air filter cover like the 550 does? 

Offline The Mayor

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Re: Advice for a Newb
« Reply #9 on: November 16, 2009, 11:22:01 pm »
well, from what i can gather, there is an inlet that right behind the tool tray thats for the intake. the filter, under the tray, is supposed to have a cover that seals it off. but im gathering this from the manuals ive read; ive never seen the actual cover or even another 350F for that matter!

Offline Lars

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Re: Advice for a Newb
« Reply #10 on: November 17, 2009, 12:17:30 am »
Yes, the air inlet is behind the tool tray. A tube goes from there and into the airfilter box.

The procedure to have this engine run well, is as always:

1. Replace the spark plugs and adjust the gap.
2. Adjust the points gap and timing
3. Adjust the air screw in the carbs - all the way in and about 1 turn out, max 1,5
4. Adjust the valves
5. THEN - carb synch

Have a look here.. http://www.hondahobby.no/website.aspx?displayid=1736


BTW, have you checked the throttle cables? Sliding well in the hose and routed correctly?


Lars
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