Author Topic: The bronze bushings (No luck) (Read 7011 times)

BigBoi · « **on:** November 19, 2009, 06:44:31 AM »

Hey all,

I'm looking to purchase a couple for my '72 750K. I've done a few searches on the site and have come across the following:

Partsnmore - Out of stock
Old bike barn - Too afraid to order from them given their rep (And can't find them on their site)
Z1 - Can only find the bearing conversion
M3 Racing - Seem to be the version with the flange (77+)
Ebay - Can't find any

Does anyone know of any other place that I can get them? Also, can someone give me a good reason why I shouldn't just get the steel ones from Honda? I'm meticulous when it comes to maintenance, so I'm not worried about the bushings going dry and rusting.

Thanks!

JBMorse · « **Reply #1 on:** November 19, 2009, 07:08:04 AM »

I wonder about this as well. Motorcycle Classics magazine recently did swing arm bushings on their CB500 project series. They said they got the bushings from Charlie's Place in San Francisco. They have a website but it doesn't look like they have an online store. You'd probably have to call them.
Hondaman does swing arm rebuilds, maybe he also sells the bushings separately?
Also, do a search on the bushings. There was recently a good thread on them explaining what you have to do and what kind to get.
Good luck!

BigBoi · « **Reply #2 on:** November 19, 2009, 07:15:51 AM »

Yes, I've familiarised myself with the process. I send Hondaman an email yesterday and although he does do the rebuilds, he unfortunately doesn't sell the bushings alone.

nippon · « **Reply #3 on:** November 19, 2009, 07:19:10 AM »

You could pm Ricky_Racer. I think he has a pair of them.

nippon

vorhese · « **Reply #4 on:** November 19, 2009, 07:29:40 AM »

I'm going to be having Hondaman make me a pair and upgrade my '76 swingarm.

BigBoi · « **Reply #5 on:** November 19, 2009, 07:30:21 AM »

Quote from: nippon on November 19, 2009, 07:19:10 AM

You could pm Ricky_Racer. I think he has a pair of them.

nippon

Sent him a message. If anyone else has different options, I'm certainly open.

BigBoi · « **Reply #6 on:** November 19, 2009, 07:30:57 AM »

Quote from: vorhese on November 19, 2009, 07:29:40 AM

I'm going to be having Hondaman make me a pair and upgrade my '76 swingarm.

Yeah, I would love to send him my swingarm to have it refurbished, except that it'll cost a fortune from here in Canada.

HondaNorway · « **Reply #7 on:** November 19, 2009, 08:03:54 AM »

What's so good with these bronze bushings? What is the original bushings made of (have'nt looked at mine, yet) ?
Does the bike ride much smoother?

-stian

BigBoi · « **Reply #8 on:** November 19, 2009, 08:12:14 AM »

Quote from: HondaNorway on November 19, 2009, 08:03:54 AM

What's so good with these bronze bushings? What is the original bushings made of (have'nt looked at mine, yet) ?
Does the bike ride much smoother?

-stian

From what I've read, it goes like this:

- Originally, they were made of plastic which hardened and wore badly. Handling was a little more poor.
- They are now made from steel (Honda parts). The sleeve is also steel, which will wear quickly given steel on steel and this will also rust.
- Bronze bushings are durable and will not rust.

Thus my post to find some. $:-\$

MCRider · « **Reply #9 on:** November 19, 2009, 08:16:42 AM »

Quote from: HondaNorway on November 19, 2009, 08:03:54 AM

What's so good with these bronze bushings? What is the original bushings made of (have'nt looked at mine, yet) ?
Does the bike ride much smoother?

-stian

Do some searches on swingarms in FAQs etc. Hondaman has written extensively on it.

In a nutshell: Honda cheaped out on the swingarm bushing material. The old stuff is weak wears out, and the lube system is inadequate. The new stuff is steel on steel which is incorrect from an engineering standpoint. Even with good attn to maintenance cycles its still likely to rust up and seize as again the path for lubrication is poorly designed and inadequate.

HondaMan uses bronze which is self-oiling, I think its called Oilite?, as well as cuts grese paths in the bushings so they get grease throughout, adds another grease nipple to the bolt, machines the bushing after install to fit the collar, etc.

When we press the bush into the swingarm it distorts and no way will it turn properly on the collar without specialized work. Still we, and most shops, simply bolt it up and run.

I think the commonly available bronze bushings are not oilite, and are not machined for grease paths. They are better than OEM steel on steel, but still a sad compromise.

If at all possible let HM take care of it. If not, do the best you can.

mystic_1 · « **Reply #10 on:** November 19, 2009, 08:21:28 AM »

I believe the grease paths are actually machined into the pivot tube, not the bushings. Early 750 models had pivot collars with two spiral grease paths per side, later models reduced this to one grease path per side or eliminated the paths entirely.

mystic_1

MCRider · « **Reply #11 on:** November 19, 2009, 08:24:31 AM »

Quote from: mystic_1 on November 19, 2009, 08:21:28 AM

I believe the grease paths are actually machined into the pivot tube, not the bushings. Early 750 models had pivot collars with two spiral grease paths per side, later models reduced this to one grease path per side or eliminated the paths entirely.

mystic_1

Yes I think your right. HM then restores and improves the grease paths in the collar. In one of his posts he shows how we can do this ourselves, essentially with a Dremel type tool.

But I thought he said he did it in the bushings too, but maybe just the collar.

In any event it is a proper engineering job.

vorhese · « **Reply #12 on:** November 19, 2009, 08:27:18 AM »

Plus on the '75 and later swingarms, they didn't put zirks on the end of the swingarm bolts. Durrr, Honda.

mystic_1 · « **Reply #13 on:** November 19, 2009, 08:38:10 AM »

Yup, they expect you to squeeze grease through the center of the swingarm from underneath (where they moved the zerk to) and then all the way down to the ends of the arm. So, instead of having to move grease down one path of about two inches from the zerk, you're trying to move grease down two paths, each several inches long, at the same time.

As you say, "Durrrr, Honda"

mystic_1

MCRider · « **Reply #14 on:** November 19, 2009, 08:45:22 AM »

Here's one post in FAQ: some coments oon SA bushes about 1/2 down 1st pg in Suspension; another comment near end of 2nd pg.
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=7401.0

And here:
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=35425.0

I know there is one somewhere that discusses the bushings in detail. Trouble finding it.

voxonda · « **Reply #15 on:** November 19, 2009, 08:54:52 AM »

I am on the other side of that big lake, can make every bronze bushing you would like. If it does not work out, let me know.

Rob

BigBoi · « **Reply #16 on:** November 19, 2009, 09:21:30 AM »

Quote from: voxonda on November 19, 2009, 08:54:52 AM

I am on the other side of that big lake, can make every bronze bushing you would like. If it does not work out, let me know.

Rob

Message sent.

754 · « **Reply #17 on:** November 19, 2009, 09:29:38 AM »

I can make them as well but Hondaman has more info on setting up the end play. Your sleeve has to be looked at or replaced/eworked.. that sort of thing..

I am a bigger believer of fitting the pieces properly After pushing in the bushings, than to try to mail a solution that wont be 100 %

vorhese · « **Reply #18 on:** November 19, 2009, 09:34:01 AM »

Basically, if there's one improvement you should do, it's fix the stock swing arm issues.

MCRider · « **Reply #19 on:** November 19, 2009, 10:02:20 AM »

Quote from: vorhese on November 19, 2009, 09:34:01 AM

Basically, if there's one improvement you should do, it's fix the stock swing arm issues.

Agreed.

The swingarm has so much leverage to overcome bad bushings that it masks its own poor performance. The SA will go up and down regardless of the condition of the bushings and as long as it goes up and down its OK, right?

If one puts the bike on centerstand, disconnect the shocks and remove the rear wheel so you can really feel the SA movement, I'd bet 9 out of 10 CB style bikes on the road today have bad bushings, worn or locked up. That translates to all kinds of subtle suspension issues, rough ride, wiggles in the turns, even straight line stability.

steam-powered man · « **Reply #20 on:** November 19, 2009, 01:02:09 PM »

i ordered my Honda bushings last monday, should be here today. bushings I ordered are OEM metal/composite material. why OEM?

.. have read here that the OEM bushings were steel - think Honda would design straight steel bushings over a steel sleeve?
.. have read here that the OEM "steel" bushings will rust. how, if properly maintained?
.. have read here that Honda grease fittings are crap - checked mine, they are fine
.. have read here that tight bushing fit-up will prevent grease from going where it needs to go - sleeve has greaseways to partially address path of grease. to ensure proper greasing, take the shocks/whatever off and swing the arm through a greater arc to "sweep" the grease around the sleeve. or do what i do and take 20minutes to remove/fully grease the sleeve annually
.. have read here that the grease channels are inadequate. see above
.. have read here that the swingarm ends will be out-of-round from pressing in replacement bushings. checked w/inside calipers, is fine

we're all independant biker types, right? individuals, right? so I do my research, then do what's reasonable, practical and cost-effective. (flame suit on).
bobp

HondaNorway · « **Reply #21 on:** November 19, 2009, 02:38:18 PM »

I took my sving arm apart this evening, and I got a pleasant surprise. One of the previous owner's have changed the stock bushing's to bronze type!

BigBoi · « **Reply #22 on:** November 19, 2009, 04:57:46 PM »

Quote from: HondaNorway on November 19, 2009, 02:38:18 PM

I took my sving arm apart this evening, and I got a pleasant surprise. One of the previous owner's have changed the stock bushing's to bronze type!

You're very fortunate! If only we could all be so lucky. My previous owner was a bit of a fool, pardon my french. Everything on my bike was done 50% or just plain incorrectly. I found quite a few jewels taking it apart.

Retro Rocket · « **Reply #23 on:** November 19, 2009, 06:28:38 PM »

Quote from: shoemaniii on November 19, 2009, 01:02:09 PM

i ordered my Honda bushings last monday, should be here today. bushings I ordered are OEM metal/composite material. why OEM?

.. have read here that the OEM bushings were steel - think Honda would design straight steel bushings over a steel sleeve?
.. have read here that the OEM "steel" bushings will rust. how, if properly maintained?
.. have read here that Honda grease fittings are crap - checked mine, they are fine
.. have read here that tight bushing fit-up will prevent grease from going where it needs to go - sleeve has greaseways to partially address path of grease. to ensure proper greasing, take the shocks/whatever off and swing the arm through a greater arc to "sweep" the grease around the sleeve. or do what i do and take 20minutes to remove/fully grease the sleeve annually
.. have read here that the grease channels are inadequate. see above
.. have read here that the swingarm ends will be out-of-round from pressing in replacement bushings. checked w/inside calipers, is fine

we're all independant biker types, right? individuals, right? so I do my research, then do what's reasonable, practical and cost-effective. (flame suit on).
bobp

Steel on steel is a cheap fix and will wear out much faster than the brass, you also want to hope the wear is in the bush and not the swingarm or in the future you will have to replace the worn out swingarm and bushes. No one would be doing brass to address the problem if there was no problem in the first place.

Mick

BigBoi · « **Reply #24 on:** November 19, 2009, 06:35:18 PM »

Quote from: retro rocket on November 19, 2009, 06:28:38 PM

Quote from: shoemaniii on November 19, 2009, 01:02:09 PM
i ordered my Honda bushings last monday, should be here today. bushings I ordered are OEM metal/composite material. why OEM?

.. have read here that the OEM bushings were steel - think Honda would design straight steel bushings over a steel sleeve?
.. have read here that the OEM "steel" bushings will rust. how, if properly maintained?
.. have read here that Honda grease fittings are crap - checked mine, they are fine
.. have read here that tight bushing fit-up will prevent grease from going where it needs to go - sleeve has greaseways to partially address path of grease. to ensure proper greasing, take the shocks/whatever off and swing the arm through a greater arc to "sweep" the grease around the sleeve. or do what i do and take 20minutes to remove/fully grease the sleeve annually
.. have read here that the grease channels are inadequate. see above
.. have read here that the swingarm ends will be out-of-round from pressing in replacement bushings. checked w/inside calipers, is fine

we're all independant biker types, right? individuals, right? so I do my research, then do what's reasonable, practical and cost-effective. (flame suit on).
bobp

Steel on steel is a cheap fix and will wear out much faster than the brass, you also want to hope the wear is in the bush and not the swingarm or in the future you will have to replace the worn out swingarm and bushes. No one would be doing brass to address the problem if there was no problem in the first place.

Mick

Not such a cheap fix either...just checked at Honda tonight...32$ Canadian each.

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Author Topic: The bronze bushings (No luck) (Read 7011 times)