Author Topic: CB750A Street ET bracket drag bike. A year to build it.  (Read 627337 times)

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Offline Jim F

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Re: CB750A Street ET bracket drag bike. A year to build it.
« Reply #1475 on: July 25, 2011, 06:11:26 PM »
The slide position looks pretty good for a first attempt at tweaking the springs. I think once you upload off the brake, those weaker springs will allow the slides to move up a lot quicker than before and net a better 60'.

Keeping playing with the springs and we could see an off the line wheelie the next time out-lol.

On another note, The Loney Motorsports division of Team Sam Green Racing took the 7 hour ride up to MIR for the MIROCK superbike series. We were able to arrive at the track on friday night in time to paying our weekend entry fees,  secure a parking spot and drop off the trailer. After a decent night sleep at the hotel, we returned to the track and set up camp. I decided to race my small tire Kaw in saturdays pro ET race and qualify the car tire bike for the Top Sportsman (T/S)class. I had problems with the 2 step dragging me through the beams on my first time run with the T/S bike. I pushed back to the sideline and was able to lower the launch rpm enough to settle the bike down. With a new slick on the bike, it launch but immediately went into tire spin which netted a crappy 60' and an 8.04 ET- enough to get comfortably in the show but it was a below par pass. We were able to get the small tire bike back to the lanes for a pass. Unfortunately it was not a straight pass but i still ran a 9.01. Next qualifying pass on the T/S bike felt a lot better than the ET showed it- 7.97@ 154mph. My final time run on the small tire Kaw was an 8.99.

First round eliminations in saturdays pro ET i dialed the little bike in at a 8.99 to my opponents 9.50. I gave chase and caught him opponent just before the mph cone. I didn't want to lift so i crossed the line at full throttle but didn't see my win light come on. Dang!!!!!! My ticket showed i brokeout with a 8.94 on my 8.99 dial in. The culprit for the lose was a better 60' than i had on any of my time runs. Oh well, it was too dang hot to buy back in so we loaded up and returned to the hotel for shower and get rested for sunday.

The first shakedown run on sunday the bike ran a 7.99 so i felt a 7.98 dial would be perfect for eliminations since i had run a 7.97 the previous day. My crew chief(wife) decided that a 7.97 dial in might be more realistic. First round eliminations my opponent dialed an 8.58. My bike left the line good and by the 330 mark i had caught and passed the other bike. I easy out of the throttle and took the win. Next round i had the #1 points leader. He dialed an 8.37 to my 7.98. I knew i needed to push the tree a bit with him since i had only been cutting .050 lights all weekend. Well, push i did but a bit too much-i got the redeye. Ouch.

It was a long ride back to SC yesterday.
First time run on the T/S bike
a bad weekend of drag racing is better than a good week of work
as little as I have been at the tracks there is one thing that I have learned.
the one that can guess the best is the winner and thats the most frustrating thing of all. As a tool maker and precision welder that just bugs
the SH%# out of me.
but you guys came home in one piece and looking forward to the next race
a BIG well Done Frank and Gladis (?)
2002 RC51 1000 (SP2)
1983 GS1100EC Suzuki
2002 998 Dukati (Customers Bike)
1992 KTM500 2 stroke
1975 CB750/836 Honda
1978 GS750/840 Suzuki

Online scottly

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Re: CB750A Street ET bracket drag bike. A year to build it.
« Reply #1476 on: July 25, 2011, 10:28:42 PM »

the one that can guess the best is the winner and thats the most frustrating thing of all.
 that just bugs the SH%# out of me.


LOL! Me too! I'd rather concentrate on tuning, and let the clock masters do their own magic. ;D
Don't fix it if it ain't broke!
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Offline jweeks

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Re: CB750A Street ET bracket drag bike. A year to build it.
« Reply #1477 on: July 26, 2011, 04:57:03 PM »
Jim,
     Put  the cam Bill has into the bike before changing the carbs. There is no risk and a lot of reward to getting the powerband lower in the rev range. The motor stays in the frame. Only the valve cover gets removed.
     Yes, valve lash changes can help a little. Advancing the existing cam a little is also something that will help.
Putting bigger carbs on a motor that is set up for top end won't help with your launch. Just my opinion.

                                                          J.Weeks

Offline Bill/BentON Racing

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Re: CB750A Street ET bracket drag bike. A year to build it.
« Reply #1478 on: July 26, 2011, 05:31:57 PM »
Jim,
     Put  the cam Bill has into the bike before changing the carbs. There is no risk and a lot of reward to getting the powerband lower in the rev range. The motor stays in the frame. Only the valve cover gets removed.
     Yes, valve lash changes can help a little. Advancing the existing cam a little is also something that will help.
Putting bigger carbs on a motor that is set up for top end won't help with your launch. Just my opinion.

                                                          J.Weeks
Jon,I think Jim's talking about this winter.Cam,degree wheel,magnetic dial indicator,etc. all coming down to Valdosta.I want to see what it does with these changes(a matter of developing what we have)...next time out providing carbs do their job should be as good as it gets with current set up.In the 12's consistent,we run it,not we got a cam to install!! I believe 60 ft times will be the best we've had.You still coming to Valdosta? Bringing bikes? C'mon man! It's time! Bill
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Offline jweeks

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Re: CB750A Street ET bracket drag bike. A year to build it.
« Reply #1479 on: July 26, 2011, 07:14:42 PM »
Bill,
     If we show some consistency before Valdosta, maybe. If the cam goes in at Valdosta, very doubtful. I prefer to be there with Sam happy. My input stands on it's own merits.

                                                                   J.Weeks

Offline Bill/BentON Racing

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Re: CB750A Street ET bracket drag bike. A year to build it.
« Reply #1480 on: July 27, 2011, 06:03:36 AM »
Jon,we're going to test in 2 weeks.I talked w/Jim yesterday and we're making plans for Commerce or some local track.Results not what we want,and carbs ok,then cam goes in before Valdosta.Smiling Sam w/win slip or slips we want to see!! ;D What do you think it'll run w/gearing changes? We ran 16/48 last time out.Now it'll be 16/52.Stock was 17/48. Carbs a mystery til test or dyno.I think if we drop 60 fts down from 2.5-2.4 to 2.3-2.2 should show up on other end.If so we leave cam and carbs alone til winter.Bill
BentON Racing Website
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Over 35 years of experience working on vintage motorcycles, with a speciality in Honda SOHC/4 with a focus on the CB750 and other models as well from 1966 - 1985.
______________________________________
1993 HRC RS125 | 1984 NS400R | 1974 Honda CB750/836cc (Calendar Girl) | 1972 CB 500/550 Yoshi Kitted 590cc | 1965 Honda CB450 Black Bomber | 1972 Suzuki T350 | 1973 88cc | Z50/Falcons Pit Bike | 1967 CA100| 1974 CB350 (400F motor)...and more.
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Offline jweeks

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Re: CB750A Street ET bracket drag bike. A year to build it.
« Reply #1481 on: July 27, 2011, 01:28:40 PM »
Bill,
     Quarter Jr. gives you .1 improvement in the first sixty feet for the gearing improvement. 1.2 mph up at the finish line. 92.3 mph at the 1/8th mile mark. It doesn't show you going into the 12's. High 2.3 second sixty foot times at best.
     I'm tired of saying the same stuff. More power down low and the bike will get more consistent. It will also run quicker.  More gearing is a minor help. What you're playing with the carbs won't amount to much of any difference. If you're testing locally in  couple of weeks, please use Mike's looser valve lash recommendations. That will help a little.
     The motor has an adjustable cam sprocket. It can be advanced by removing the valve cover, loosening the two bolts holding the cam gear to the camshaft, spin over the motor by your choice of spots to advance the cam relative to the sprocket a little, re-tighten the bolts to the cam gear, and button up the valve cover. That's worth more than what you will be getting with the carb slide spring changes.
     Consistency requires more power at launch than you currently have. I'd be looking for 3 tenths improvement in the first 60' at a minimum to get a consistent bike. You need to launch the bike with more than stock horsepower at your launch rpm. Ignition box changes, carb slide spring cutting, and more rear gearing won't get you there.
     Even with a cam change, you need passes to give you a history to draw on for dialing in at Valdosta in November. Changing something every time out gives you no history to use. I don't know why you're expecting different results going down the same path. I've been down these paths before.
     If we go back many pages in this topic, I attached a picture in the early 80's of a Hondamatic CB750A drag racing on the track. It shows the bike with the front wheel about a foot in the air. The driver of that bike is in the performance motorcycle industry today. He fondly remembers winning a lot of bracket races back when he had that bike. It ran 12's. The point was that the powerband of his bike was so strong that it would pick up the front wheel in a power wheelie as it was going down the track. It didn't wheelie off of the line, but the power built so rapidly that it would pick up the front wheel going down the track. My drag hondamatic 750's run a wheelie bar just for that power wheelie problem.  It doesn't last long, but the bike picks up the front wheel every pass about 30' off of the starting line. The bike's wheelie bar wheels hit the ground, the front end immediately comes back down and the rest of the run is normal. That's what you and Sam need; the feeling of the front wheel trying to come up off of the ground as you are going down the track in low gear. Get the powerband to do that and I'll show you an ATM.

                                                                      J. Weeks

Offline Bill/BentON Racing

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Re: CB750A Street ET bracket drag bike. A year to build it.
« Reply #1482 on: July 27, 2011, 06:30:47 PM »
Jon,thanks,hope to see you @ Valdosta.Points well taken.Sam will be happy......once again! ;)Bill
BentON Racing Website
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1993 HRC RS125 | 1984 NS400R | 1974 Honda CB750/836cc (Calendar Girl) | 1972 CB 500/550 Yoshi Kitted 590cc | 1965 Honda CB450 Black Bomber | 1972 Suzuki T350 | 1973 88cc | Z50/Falcons Pit Bike | 1967 CA100| 1974 CB350 (400F motor)...and more.
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Offline popslady

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Re: CB750A Street ET bracket drag bike. A year to build it.
« Reply #1483 on: July 28, 2011, 06:59:47 AM »
MR WEEKS:  The perfect run is when the shift light is glowing in your face 12" before the finish line in the TOP GEAR no matter how many gears you have in motor ? RIGHT ?  I took down 5 rounds of bikes in 15 hours of racing with the same dial in and the shift light glowing in my face at 1319' [ D ] and the GREEN WIN LIGHT on the scoreboard on my side of the track. Won  " THE NIGHT OF THUNDER " with the most consistent ET. 18.20 and reation times of [ .07 to .01 ] in the 5 races. We had a all motor BUSA 68" [  10mm stroker ] that ran 8.05 in 1/4 MILE but could not keep the front wheel on the ground = only one rider could make a full pass on this bike " SHINE ".  If they = BUSA, KAWA 1400, GSXR 1000 wheelie against me then my TURTLE 400cc Hondamatic will get that win ticket. I would see SAM'S ATM with no front fairing and his knees forward as a big catch the wind drag to give him all ET'S up and down.

POPS BK911 ST/ET NHRA

Offline Sam Green Racing

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Re: CB750A Street ET bracket drag bike. A year to build it.
« Reply #1484 on: July 28, 2011, 03:19:04 PM »
Flights booked Billy, it's just a case of,  DO I NEED TO BRING MY LEATHERS ?

Show me some close repeaters and I'll bring them. ;)

Sam. ::) ;)
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Offline Bill/BentON Racing

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Re: CB750A Street ET bracket drag bike. A year to build it.
« Reply #1485 on: July 28, 2011, 03:31:01 PM »
The next thing"yall" get to see will be time slips. ::) Bill
BentON Racing Website
OEM Parts | Service | Custom Builds
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Over 35 years of experience working on vintage motorcycles, with a speciality in Honda SOHC/4 with a focus on the CB750 and other models as well from 1966 - 1985.
______________________________________
1993 HRC RS125 | 1984 NS400R | 1974 Honda CB750/836cc (Calendar Girl) | 1972 CB 500/550 Yoshi Kitted 590cc | 1965 Honda CB450 Black Bomber | 1972 Suzuki T350 | 1973 88cc | Z50/Falcons Pit Bike | 1967 CA100| 1974 CB350 (400F motor)...and more.
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Offline jweeks

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Re: CB750A Street ET bracket drag bike. A year to build it.
« Reply #1486 on: July 28, 2011, 03:34:43 PM »
Pops,
     It's moving around on the bike without a fairing that causes variation. I've run 11's years ago on my Hondamatic at a Prostar event at Lebanon Valley NY, running sub .04 packages with no fairing. Lost second round with a .029 package.  Made 5 consecutive passes within .01 reactions. That was me at my best. Starter remembered me 7 years later when I ran at Sanaire Quebec Prostar meet (not on a hondamatic). Called the bike the most consistent bracket bike that he'd ever seen. Yes, fairings do reduce variations with head winds, but all 'matics are sensitive to cross winds. Sam's bike has a too high powerband problem that eventually will get resolved. Any dragbike takes time to get right.
     I've run a few twin Hondamatics; still have one with a Suzuki top end going back together. I'm looking for a sub 13.4 time slip with it. Want to get the quickest Hondamatic twin record back from Vic Force. He used some of my input to build his combination. Won't be getting down your way anytime soon. Travel costs keep me local. Don't even know if I can afford Valdosta in November. Congratulations on your win.
     Bill, everyone will enjoy seeing some consistent time slips from that bike!

                                                                              Jon Weeks

Offline Sam Green Racing

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Re: CB750A Street ET bracket drag bike. A year to build it.
« Reply #1487 on: July 28, 2011, 04:13:57 PM »
Well past bed time, will get back in the morning.

Sam. ;)


PS, love you all, it will work, I'm sure. 8)

Sam. ;)
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JMR Racing CB750A street ET drag bike

Offline dragracer

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Re: CB750A Street ET bracket drag bike. A year to build it.
« Reply #1488 on: July 28, 2011, 08:47:21 PM »
Bill,
     If we show some consistency before Valdosta, maybe. If the cam goes in at Valdosta, very doubtful. I prefer to be there with Sam happy. My input stands on it's own merits.

                                                                   J.Weeks

What lift/ duration cam will you guys be putting in the bike next?????????? I think i miss that post.

Offline Sam Green Racing

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Re: CB750A Street ET bracket drag bike. A year to build it.
« Reply #1489 on: July 29, 2011, 08:43:06 AM »
12 hours later ;D ;D ;D don't know the specs Frank but the cam is a DP295b from Dynoman.
Ground by Web from an RC profile for Hondamatics.

Sam. ;)
C95 sprint bike.
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JMR Racing CB750A street ET drag bike

Offline dragracer

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Re: CB750A Street ET bracket drag bike. A year to build it.
« Reply #1490 on: July 29, 2011, 09:18:36 AM »
12 hours later ;D ;D ;D don't know the specs Frank but the cam is a DP295b from Dynoman.
Ground by Web from an RC profile for Hondamatics.

Sam. ;)

Cooooool, so it specific for the characteristics of the Hondamatic. This should be really interesting when its installed.

Likely high on lift but short on duration. Dang, that sentence sounded like an ad trumpeting the need for  viagra-lol
« Last Edit: July 29, 2011, 09:21:00 AM by dragracer »

Offline Jim F

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Re: CB750A Street ET bracket drag bike. A year to build it.
« Reply #1491 on: July 30, 2011, 07:09:21 AM »
Bill,
     If we show some consistency before Valdosta, maybe. If the cam goes in at Valdosta, very doubtful. I prefer to be there with Sam happy. My input stands on it's own merits.

                                                                   J.Weeks

What lift/ duration cam will you guys be putting in the bike next?????????? I think i miss that post.
  295 cam                                Current 125-75  .400 In Dur. @ .040 = 262 degrees LC 105  Lash .005
                                                                       .375 Ex Dur. @ .040 = 257 degrees LC 104.5 Lash .005
Total Duration:
306° in   296° EX
Lobe Centers:
105°
Lift:
.390" IN   .360" EX
Lash:
.004" IN    .006" EX

Web is grinding this cam and they measure duration @.050. I don't know what it is @.050 but it cannot be less than 250 and is probably around 260.
Hey Mike
One day I need to come up to Boston and take a course from you about cams
When It was time for the cam to be installed on my 836 I had someone that raced these bikes
and built the motors do the install.
very interesting math............I just could never figure it out
2002 RC51 1000 (SP2)
1983 GS1100EC Suzuki
2002 998 Dukati (Customers Bike)
1992 KTM500 2 stroke
1975 CB750/836 Honda
1978 GS750/840 Suzuki

Offline dragracer

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Re: CB750A Street ET bracket drag bike. A year to build it.
« Reply #1492 on: July 31, 2011, 09:44:29 AM »
Thanks for the specs Mike.

Offline bwaller

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Re: CB750A Street ET bracket drag bike. A year to build it.
« Reply #1493 on: July 31, 2011, 12:03:06 PM »
Not to de-rail guys but we spoke of Dynatek replacing failed components. I was told they wouldn't warranty my crank triggers, but ultimately they sent me a new plate, good on ya Dyna folks. ;D  I bought mine early 2009 and it sat here until I finished the engine. They knew it was three years old and off warranty, but certainly can't tell it only ran two hours before failing. Oh well I'm happy.

I asked Larry about the 2000 system. He told me sales for the single cam Hondas were almost non-existant and they are no longer listing a system for our bikes. But as he mentioned the Dyna box's are the same, and the crank trigger plate is the same as several other bikes, my replacement is labelled GS1100. The only model specific part is the rotor, and they only have a few of those left.

Offline Sam Green Racing

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Re: CB750A Street ET bracket drag bike. A year to build it.
« Reply #1494 on: August 01, 2011, 03:09:41 PM »
Well the flights are booked and I get into Atlanta on Thursday 10th November.
Before that there is a short flight to Finland to sort out Juha and Jesse Leino. ;D
I'm spending a few days with Juha and family at the Finnish Championships at Alastaro in September, should be a lot of fun if the weather is kind. ;)

Sam. ;)
C95 sprint bike.
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RS 175. sprint/land speed bike
JMR Racing CB750A street ET drag bike

Offline Leino

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Re: CB750A Street ET bracket drag bike. A year to build it.
« Reply #1495 on: August 02, 2011, 12:40:33 PM »
The world traveler now. ;) ;) I'll be going to Finland in the near future...if Juha will have me. ::) Would be nice to have Sam there too. What's that sound?????? Oh ....Juha's wife crying. :o ;) ;D
My wife said she is ready for the challenge, just bring it on!!!  ;D

Offline Sam Green Racing

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Re: CB750A Street ET bracket drag bike. A year to build it.
« Reply #1496 on: August 02, 2011, 12:55:09 PM »
 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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JMR Racing CB750A street ET drag bike

Offline Sam Green Racing

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Re: CB750A Street ET bracket drag bike. A year to build it.
« Reply #1497 on: August 02, 2011, 03:20:33 PM »
I'm not sure how she would get on with Murphy but she wouldn't have a problem with me. I am able to get on with all the ladies, providing they do as they are told. ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
Don't let her see this Juha. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Sam. ;)
C95 sprint bike.
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CB92
RS 175. sprint/land speed bike
JMR Racing CB750A street ET drag bike

Offline Leino

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Re: CB750A Street ET bracket drag bike. A year to build it.
« Reply #1498 on: August 03, 2011, 12:40:33 PM »
I'm not sure how she would get on with Murphy but she wouldn't have a problem with me. I am able to get on with all the ladies, providing they do as they are told. ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
Don't let her see this Juha. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Sam. ;)
Sam... sounds to me you've never met a Finnish woman ;)
Welcome to my home anyway   ;D  ;D  ;D
 Juha

Offline Sam Green Racing

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Re: CB750A Street ET bracket drag bike. A year to build it.
« Reply #1499 on: August 03, 2011, 02:25:45 PM »
Ya mean they won't do as they are told. :o :o :o :o :o :o :o

Sam. ;)
C95 sprint bike.
CB95 hybrid race bike
CB95 race bike
CB92
RS 175. sprint/land speed bike
JMR Racing CB750A street ET drag bike