Author Topic: CB750A Street ET bracket drag bike. A year to build it.  (Read 620389 times)

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Offline Bill/BentON Racing

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Re: CB750A Street ET bracket drag bike. A year to build it.
« Reply #475 on: February 17, 2011, 06:02:04 PM »
More progress/pics:
Before it's clean,it's ugly,but works. ;)

Gotta clean it up and wire rest of ignition.

Lights Sam! ;D

Back to it.Bill
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Over 35 years of experience working on vintage motorcycles, with a speciality in Honda SOHC/4 with a focus on the CB750 and other models as well from 1966 - 1985.
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Offline dragracer

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Re: CB750A Street ET bracket drag bike. A year to build it.
« Reply #476 on: February 17, 2011, 08:37:48 PM »
It's funny Frank, all the people that I have met from this forum, I met them on line before meeting them in person. You are the exeption despite living thousands of miles away.
For members reading this, I met Frank when we were both racing at Piedmont NC in 2008.
I was racing member Dusterdudes CBR600F3 and we were walking round the pits with Rob (rocking-M)
when we came across this very nice CB750F drag bike belonging to Frank. After that we kept in contact through Dragbike.com and eventually, Frank joined us in here. Here's to a few beersin a few weeks time. ;)

Sam. ;)


Thanks for giving the members the background on our first meeting Sam.
It was good to talk to another 750 SOHC'er. Most of the people i race with weren't even born when these bikes were ruling the streets and the track.  I had some problems with the clutch on the bike that day up in Piedmont. I was also racing my top gas Kawasaki. I enjoyed meeting you and the crew and had fun that day.

You might want to put a few root BEERS in that cooler for me Sam. I gave up the spirits in 1989 but i enjoy a good soft drink from time to time. Of course we drink sweetened ice tea here in the south so you had better start getting your taste buds primed-lol.

Sam, i do have one suggestion on the schedule for the weekend of the 12th. Carolina Dragway will be testing on friday the 11th. If you can make it down there to test the bike some on that day, on the 12th there will be an ET race at Union County Dragway, north of Carolina. This is actually more of a grudgefest being put on by some guys i help with race promotions. They've been doing this type event for about 3 years now and i convinced them after the first event or two to add an ET class. Eventually i got them to add a few other heads up classes in addition to the grudge racing and test and tune.

So..., here's my thought again, practice some at Carolina Dragway on friday in launching the bike and getting it and yourself dialed in. Come up to Union County on saturday morning and get into the ET bracket race so you can get some actual race experience. You can also just do some test and tune rounds if you like. The only drawback to Union County is its an 1/8th mile track. But keep in mind, you are only trying to get "real time" practice is an actual ET bracket race before you go to Rockingham. You will get to judge the stripe against an actual competitor versus making laps alone. There is a huge difference, trust me.

Anyway, thats my 2 cents. Plus, because these guys count on me to help organize the classes like i've done in the last 3 years, i'm obligated to them on saturday and wouldn't be able to come assist you guys at Carolina Dragway. Ok, so i'm being selfish and want my cake so i can eat it too. Hahahaha. Or as they say, i'm trying to kill 2 birds with one stone.

Seriously, this seems to make a lot more sense to me than just solo passes.

Give it some thought my friend and if the crew's schedule fits, please put some weight to my suggestion.

Union County Dragway does have a website- check it out. Nice, concrete track, some as glass.

Offline Sam Green Racing

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Re: CB750A Street ET bracket drag bike. A year to build it.
« Reply #477 on: February 18, 2011, 01:27:26 AM »
Sounds good to me Frank but will have to see if it fits in with Bill and Jims work load.

I'm OK with root beer, I can drink it till it comes out of my ears. ;D ;D ;D ;D

Sam. ;)
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Offline Sam Green Racing

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Re: CB750A Street ET bracket drag bike. A year to build it.
« Reply #478 on: February 18, 2011, 05:16:42 AM »
Did you find out which model that cooler was Mike?  Bill wanted to know if it made any difference regarding which port was feed in and out. I could phone their tech dept to find out but myself, I wouldnt think it mattered. With it being mounted on end, I would have thought it best to take the feed in to the bottom so that any air would be pushed out at the top, what are your thoughts?
Yes, Iced Tea is nice. ;D

Sam. ;)
C95 sprint bike.
CB95 hybrid race bike
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RS 175. sprint/land speed bike
JMR Racing CB750A street ET drag bike

Offline Jim F

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Re: CB750A Street ET bracket drag bike. A year to build it.
« Reply #479 on: February 18, 2011, 11:23:42 AM »
I have already checked with the war department and I have the green light for a weekend of practice/tuning/racing dialing in etc etc
my customers might have other plans but I will have to cross that bridge when I get to it.
getting close guys

Bill I will see you Saturday/Sunday which ever is good for you

let me know if I need to bring anything

Jim
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Offline Sam Green Racing

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Re: CB750A Street ET bracket drag bike. A year to build it.
« Reply #480 on: February 18, 2011, 11:30:05 AM »
Big bloke, big heart  8) 8) 8)

Sam. ;)
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Offline Jim F

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Re: CB750A Street ET bracket drag bike. A year to build it.
« Reply #481 on: February 18, 2011, 12:26:19 PM »
I resemble that remark............Thanks Sam
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Offline jweeks

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Re: CB750A Street ET bracket drag bike. A year to build it.
« Reply #482 on: February 19, 2011, 06:03:30 AM »
Oil coolers,
     If it doesn't have a built in one way check valve in it (why would it?) it won't matter. You can check it easily just after a pass. Is the surface of the cooler warm? If yes, it's working well. If it's really cold out (40's) it won't help at all. It's just there to cool off the oil during/after a pass. Anybody got a guess what kind of temperature that you guys are racing in?

                                                                               JW  ;)

Offline Sam Green Racing

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Re: CB750A Street ET bracket drag bike. A year to build it.
« Reply #483 on: February 19, 2011, 06:50:39 AM »
Jon, I've been keeping an eye on the temps, Carolina dragway Elevation 144 feet, average high around 75f at the moment.
When I have been to Valdosta in March and November, high 70s to mid 80s, cools right down when the sun goes down. I'm not sure of the effects on ET between running at mid day and 10 at night. ???

Sam. ;)
C95 sprint bike.
CB95 hybrid race bike
CB95 race bike
CB92
RS 175. sprint/land speed bike
JMR Racing CB750A street ET drag bike

Offline Sam Green Racing

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Re: CB750A Street ET bracket drag bike. A year to build it.
« Reply #484 on: February 19, 2011, 07:03:57 AM »
Quote Murphy,
I would feed from the bottom sir.  Hmmmmmmm...that doesn't sound right. ;D

You can say that again Mike :D,  on second thoughts, perhaps not. :D :D :D :D :D :D

Sam. ;)

C95 sprint bike.
CB95 hybrid race bike
CB95 race bike
CB92
RS 175. sprint/land speed bike
JMR Racing CB750A street ET drag bike

Offline Jim F

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Re: CB750A Street ET bracket drag bike. A year to build it.
« Reply #485 on: February 19, 2011, 08:55:36 AM »
aaaaawwwwwwwwwww shucks guys....... ;D
2002 RC51 1000 (SP2)
1983 GS1100EC Suzuki
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1992 KTM500 2 stroke
1975 CB750/836 Honda
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Offline Sam Green Racing

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Re: CB750A Street ET bracket drag bike. A year to build it.
« Reply #486 on: February 19, 2011, 09:32:43 AM »
Is this the Mechanic of the Month thread ;D ;D ;D, I'll nominate Billy. :D :D :D :D :D :D

Sam. ;) :D
C95 sprint bike.
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JMR Racing CB750A street ET drag bike

Offline joesmotos

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Re: CB750A Street ET bracket drag bike. A year to build it.
« Reply #487 on: February 19, 2011, 02:54:37 PM »
Seconds the nomination..go Bill!

Joe H

Offline 736cc

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Re: CB750A Street ET bracket drag bike. A year to build it.
« Reply #488 on: February 19, 2011, 03:34:39 PM »
are we there yet? :D

(sound bite puh-leez) 

Offline Sam Green Racing

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Re: CB750A Street ET bracket drag bike. A year to build it.
« Reply #489 on: February 19, 2011, 03:50:56 PM »
736, what do you think it is like for me, thousands of miles away in the early hours of the morning almost waiting for news ;D ;D ;D I've been talking to Juha Leino in Finland for over 2 hours in the hope that we might hear something. His wife just dragged him off to bed, it was that or devorce :D :D :D :D :D Fill us in Billy, is it a runner ;)

Sam. ;)  very tired and suffering from alcohol poisoning :D :D :D :D just a little ::)
C95 sprint bike.
CB95 hybrid race bike
CB95 race bike
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JMR Racing CB750A street ET drag bike

Offline Bill/BentON Racing

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Re: CB750A Street ET bracket drag bike. A year to build it.
« Reply #490 on: February 19, 2011, 04:23:22 PM »
736, what do you think it is like for me, thousands of miles away in the early hours of the morning almost waiting for news ;D ;D ;D I've been talking to Juha Leino in Finland for over 2 hours in the hope that we might hear something. His wife just dragged him off to bed, it was that or devorce :D :D :D :D :D Fill us in Billy, is it a runner ;)

Sam. ;)  very tired and suffering from alcohol poisoning :D :D :D :D just a little ::)
Sam,check your PM"s.A runner tomorrow,Afternoonish 4-5.00pm EST.Big Jim coming over.
Maybe a pic or two later.Thanks to all for the comments.Joe,no Bonneville report? Com'on man! ;D
BentON Racing Website
OEM Parts | Service | Custom Builds
BentON Racing Facebook
Over 35 years of experience working on vintage motorcycles, with a speciality in Honda SOHC/4 with a focus on the CB750 and other models as well from 1966 - 1985.
______________________________________
1993 HRC RS125 | 1984 NS400R | 1974 Honda CB750/836cc (Calendar Girl) | 1972 CB 500/550 Yoshi Kitted 590cc | 1965 Honda CB450 Black Bomber | 1972 Suzuki T350 | 1973 88cc | Z50/Falcons Pit Bike | 1967 CA100| 1974 CB350 (400F motor)...and more.
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See our latest build 'Captain Marvel' CLICK HERE

Offline Trav-i

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Re: CB750A Street ET bracket drag bike. A year to build it.
« Reply #491 on: February 19, 2011, 04:37:37 PM »
Cool, so should I be listening for it here in Gainesville tomorrow? ;D
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Offline Sam Green Racing

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Re: CB750A Street ET bracket drag bike. A year to build it.
« Reply #492 on: February 19, 2011, 04:43:44 PM »
ok, while were waiting, heres my thing making noise for your hearing pleasure



Sounds fantastic. 8) I remember when you got it and thought it was totally not you, what with all your imaculate sandcast restos. 8) 8) 8) 8)

Sam. ;)
C95 sprint bike.
CB95 hybrid race bike
CB95 race bike
CB92
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JMR Racing CB750A street ET drag bike

Offline jweeks

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Re: CB750A Street ET bracket drag bike. A year to build it.
« Reply #493 on: February 19, 2011, 05:04:38 PM »
Sam,
     Getting cooler will only improve your ET by how rich your carbs start out. I don't usually run to the rich side. Usually when the sun goes down and the temperature drops by 15+ degrees, I'd be looking at going up a jet size. Without it, you'll slow down. I jet for where I'm running temperature wise most of the time. I'd expect under a 3 tenth range from 80 to 45 degrees. If you go hotter, the ET will drop off rapidly. I lost 5 tenths going from 50 degrees to 105 degrees F. bracket racing. I didn't bring lean enough jetting for the unusually hot weather. What you bring for spare jets will determine how well you'll run under a wide temperature variation. I usually bring about 5-7 points up in jetting for cooler temperatures and just accept the drop in ET when it really starts to get you sweating. So long as you always use the log book, it will pay you back many times over with ET changes due to jetting changes and or temperature variations. The carbs have allen head screws just for easy bowl removal on the bike. The stocker phillips head screws on the carbs will round off with repeated removal. Event bracket racing will be done in the 10 am to 5 pm area I'm assuming. I'd expect a temperature range within 20 degrees F. A little fatter jets for the first time trial and for the final, with the majority of racing on the same set of jets. If we keep it under 80 degrees for the entire event, the jetting won't be a major issue. A jet change (one size) is around .04 second difference. We need practice and rounds documented to see the personality of your bike. It will be far easier after the first hundred passes.
     Bill, your fans await! The sounds of the first startup - checking for leaks - listening for the sounds - not finding anything wrong - wring the throttle one time. I wish that I could be there for that. ;D My vote is for a crisp throttle with an initial low rpm idle. :D

                                                                                      JW

Offline Sam Green Racing

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Re: CB750A Street ET bracket drag bike. A year to build it.
« Reply #494 on: February 19, 2011, 05:39:51 PM »
This is all going to be new to me Jon. In the Uk, we usually finish racing by 4pm and there is very little change in temps/weather conditions in that time.
With the little RS175 two stroke that I was useing for land speed racing, the jetting/temprature was critical but despite having all the weather testing equipment, I was never able to colate enough data to work out what was needed in the jetting department.
If it's going to take 100 passes to colate enough data with the auto, I'm afraid Billy is going to be very busy during the summer months. :(

On a brighter note, I picked up the team polo shirts this morning. (or should I say yesterday morning)  bed time guys. :D :D :D

Sam. ;)
C95 sprint bike.
CB95 hybrid race bike
CB95 race bike
CB92
RS 175. sprint/land speed bike
JMR Racing CB750A street ET drag bike

Offline joesmotos

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Re: CB750A Street ET bracket drag bike. A year to build it.
« Reply #495 on: February 19, 2011, 07:49:35 PM »
Bill this is ya'lls 15 mins not mine.lol

And you know i cant leave stuff alone,some updated headwork coming soon.
Think titanium
and portwork
and nitrous

ok you guys have fun
Joe H

Offline jweeks

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Re: CB750A Street ET bracket drag bike. A year to build it.
« Reply #496 on: February 20, 2011, 07:49:31 AM »
Sam,
     If you want to achieve the best possible ET (fuel/air ratio) over the widest conditions, you learn with lots of experience and or a lot of technology.  If you just want to have fun, set the bike up a little rich and ignore the jetting changes. The way to know if the jetting is right is to monitor the exhaust temperatures per cylinder.  The snowmobile crowd uses that to keep their 2 strokes making the most power without seizing pistons. You can use that technology to play back rpm vs temperature over time to see if the carbs are jetted right for a pass. Same technology would seem to be right for top speed competition. There are fuel injection systems that will automatically do what we're trying to but: it's expensive, lots of setup time, and very sensitive to fuel quality. Most of the articles that I've read about injection vs carbs gives the carbs the edge in the midrange. Hondamatics live for the midrange. I'm not writing about what you need to do to get started. I'm writing about what can be done in the future to make it quicker. Show me anybody who is entirely happy with what they have built and I'll show you somebody who hasn't driven their bike yet. You've stated that you would like to get an 11 second ET time slip. What if you're close, but not there? Just give up and not try to make improvements?  That's not the Sam I know! ;D
     Bill, remember that the Daytona race only happens once a year, but this bike has been over a year in the making. There's always reruns for TV, but the first startup happens only once in a build.  ;)  There would have been $$ there for subscriptions to the webcam feed from your shop. Next time Sam, get the merchandising right and the build will be next to free!!   ;D ;D ;D ;D

                                                                             JW

Offline Leino

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Re: CB750A Street ET bracket drag bike. A year to build it.
« Reply #497 on: February 20, 2011, 08:27:35 AM »
A runner tomorrow,Afternoonish 4-5.00pm EST.
It's almost 6.30pm... where's my video?  ;D

Offline Sam Green Racing

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Re: CB750A Street ET bracket drag bike. A year to build it.
« Reply #498 on: February 20, 2011, 08:58:47 AM »
It's only mid day over there Juha, you'll be in bed when it's posted. ;D

Sam. ;)
C95 sprint bike.
CB95 hybrid race bike
CB95 race bike
CB92
RS 175. sprint/land speed bike
JMR Racing CB750A street ET drag bike

Offline Leino

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Re: CB750A Street ET bracket drag bike. A year to build it.
« Reply #499 on: February 20, 2011, 09:07:23 AM »
It's only mid day over there Juha, you'll be in bed when it's posted. ;D

Sam. ;)
I demand justice!!!  :o
Or was it a video...  ::)  ;D