Topic: CB750A Street ET bracket drag bike. A year to build it.

[dragracer]

Weather looking ok for the race tomorrow guys. Are we ready to rumble??

[Sam Green Racing]

Come on Murphy, get it off your chest, spit it out, tell us what you're trying to say.

Sam.

Ba$tard. but I like you

That's better, I like you to.

Sam, moderator

[Sam Green Racing]

Weather looking ok for the race tomorrow guys. Are we ready to rumble??

I hope so

[Tintop]

Quick side note on the earth quake.  I'm 45 minutes north of Toronto, and my building was definitely shaking for about 20 seconds.  Blinds were hanging quietly, building was moving, weird.

[Bill/BentON Racing]

Samauto shall rise again....we ready! Bill

[scottly]

We're all eagerly awaiting your reports! Good luck!

[dragracer]

We're all eagerly awaiting your reports! Good luck!

I'm locked and loaded with my F' model . Hope to head up the highway in a few hours for the race. I plan to run at least 2 ET classes plus the kick and go class.

Looking forward to seeing the  ATL team members this afternoon.

[Jim F]

we will be there also
I will be getting there about an hour before bill to find a good spot
should be there around 3
see you guys there

Jim

Frank.........I talked to Bill this morning and he will bring the carbs up today

[Sam Green Racing]

Good luck all, hope the weather stays good for you.
I want to see a report in the morning, not staying up all night again.

Sam.

[Bill/BentON Racing]

60 ft times ...660 ft times
2.0267.........8.5
2.2406.........8.9
2.1276.........8.7
LOL,Bill and Jim .......and Frank and Gladys 

Artistic licence, Sam.
I wander how close.

[jweeks]

We're getting quicker. Were there traction issues, or is there still a lot of ET variations?

                                                  Hondamatic

[Sam Green Racing]

We're getting quicker. Were there traction issues, or is there still a lot of ET variations?

                                                  Hondamatic

Billy, got your phone message but couldn't make out what you were saying, bad line.
Looking at the 3 60 foot times, like Jon said, quicker but varying more than ever, another step bacwards, what caused it? were there differing wind speeds or big fluctuations in temps?

Sam.

[Bill/BentON Racing]

Sam,no....hard to type on phone when you're getting...older!
Ist run off the trailer 60 ft, 2.20
2nd run 60 ft, 2.24
3rd run 60 ft, 2.12
Range of .12 difference.
I said we were to get the bike right first....then consistent!
All three PRACTICE passes were better 60 fts.
All three passes lower ET's than 1/8 mile before.
Best 1/8 mile was 8,66,on the best pass,60 ft was 2.391 on the 12.948 pass in March.
Best 1/8 mile 2.391 60 ft,8,66 et,mph 1/8 92.67
All three practice passes were better 1/8 mile times and better 60ft(hand in hand)
ET first pass 8.54 mph 89.25
ET second pass 8.57 mph 90.10
ET third pass 8.35 mph 91.75
Now we're in the 12's!!!!!!!
More later on the race passes,gotta go try and sell old CL350 to a vintage racer bud.
Last night was BIG FUN! Valdosta here we come! Bill
Special thanks to Jim French!

[736cc]

Anybody have a new sound-bite of the quicker samauto?

[Sam Green Racing]

Billy, the correction to .12 on the 60 is much better but it is still 0.22 difference at the 8th and will go on to be allmost 0.3 at the 1000 foot mark.
If it's .3 at the finish line, we ain't got a race bike.
Quicker yes but not consistent enough.
Did you have to change gear before the line.
Look at the stats from the Rock.(differences)

3/20/11 60ft .139  660ft .293 1000ft .314.
5/20/11 60ft .150  660ft .316 1000ft .319.
8/26/11 60ft .120  660ft .220 1000ft .?

Sam.

[jweeks]

     The gearing increase should explain most of the improvement. It's still far from a consistent bracket bike. The numbers tell me to change out the cam. It may only be about 5 - 7 degrees less duration on the new cam, but it will help make more horses down low. If we're stuck with using the 75 cam, please advance it like I've suggested about a dozen times. The proof would be to run a few more local passes to check for variations. If the bike gets more inconsistent, we can just put the 75 cam back in or take away the added advance.
     I'm curious why the bike picked up mph every pass. Did the air get better?

                                                             Jon Weeks

[Jim F]

just a few pics of last night

I am going to let Bill do the Tach talk about what he and I did.........
althought we do need to go from a 40 pilot to a 42.5. Just a little lean down low
We did lean the needles on position and put in the MSD Box but I think we talked about that

Frank hard at work getting a bike ready


a really good crowd



and last but not least
the eye burning, lung busting, Top fuel Harley (Ask Bill about these.........sorry Bill) not your average SOHC Honda





 

[Bill/BentON Racing]

Gentleman,I repeat,this bike is still in test and tune state!Damn,you have to get something right before you get consistent.And Samauto had lots of issues! This bike only once ran a 2.3 60 ft and it was 2.391,a couple of 2.4s and all others were in the 2.5s.Those first three passes wiould be in the 12's,everthing continuing to improve.Now finally time to START to look for consistency.The gearing change according to Jon's software was not going to do what we did.It almost wheelied off line on last race!Gearing and cutting SPRINGS did it,box may help some.I find it a little confusing some of the thoughts bandied about,OK tho. By Valdosta this bike will run solidly in the 12's and be CONSISTENT.It takes TIME and MONEY to test and tune and race!!!!!
We're doing the best we can.Bill

[bwaller]

You guys are top shelf. I can appreciate that working for a living and racing once in a blue moon, and for a few seconds at a time is tough on continued development.

Be happy, think about how far you've come.

[Bill/BentON Racing]

Brent,I am ....or was.Some see glass 1/2 empty,others 1/2 full. Bill
Race results in a few...I think.

[Sam Green Racing]

Billy, turn on your Skype.

Sam.

[dragracer]

Gentleman,I repeat,this bike is still in test and tune state!Damn,you have to get something right before you get consistent.And Samauto had lots of issues! This bike only once ran a 2.3 60 ft and it was 2.391,a couple of 2.4s and all others were in the 2.5s.Those first three passes wiould be in the 12's,everthing continuing to improve.Now finally time to START to look for consistency.The gearing change according to Jon's software was not going to do what we did.It almost wheelied off line on last race!Gearing and cutting SPRINGS did it,box may help some.I find it a little confusing some of the thoughts bandied about,OK tho. By Valdosta this bike will run solidly in the 12's and be CONSISTENT.It takes TIME and MONEY to test and tune and race!!!!!
We're doing the best we can.Bill

Ok, so now i'm going to step on some toes in defense of my ATL race team members. I've got to standby my fellow southerners . Here we go-If any one of you think this bike or any new build is going to be an ATM right off the bat, you are severely deluded. Sometimes it takes years to make a bike dead on consistent.  This bike was not designed to be used for dragracing. It does bring odd characteristics to the table to begin with and those have to be overcome just to get it down the track from end to end. The guys have done an awesome job in slowly sorting out problems not of their making from carb issues to electronic gremlins- please give them proper credit for consistently lowering the ET's. As Bill stated, now lets just sit back and allow the mechanic rider and his helper/partner time to tweak the smaller issues like jetting and cam timing. I always believe in maximizing the hand i've been dealt before i ask for a new card. Every step along the way, the men have hit roadblocks and obstacles. Not once have they pointed fingers or complained but dutifully trudged along to find solutions that a lesser man would have given up on by now.

Bill played with valve settings to reduce lift and it somewhat changed overall duration- it did help with increasing vacum signal at low rpms so the slides on the carbs could rise higher and quicker to compliment the softer diaphram springs- that change acknowledged Jon's ascertion that the cam is too big. Bill and Jim realize the cam will need to be replaced. I'm sure he will do that once he makes a few more changes and does more testing with the present setup to get the bike running close to the same numbers over and over again as it sits now. The rider is still honing his staging and launching techniques so he can have repeatable actions to see if  the bike itself will net consistent results. Bill is going through a learning curve also so allow him time to get it right- its about seat time with a good bike underneath gentlemen. Bill has every ticket from every run and evaluates his past and present data after each pass. He knows the numbers vary better than any one of us. Once the rider and bike are synchronized- look out.  What i saw and heard of the bike last night is a significant improvement over any changes done in the past. These fellas have spent a lot of time doing the very best they can to turn a frustrating situation into a smile inducing adventure. I am happy for both Bill and Jim's accomplishments so far and appreciate their unwavering dedication to making Samauto a bike that all involved can be proud of without being critical. 

Sorry Sam and Jon if i offended either of you- but if the shoe fits................   We can have a coke next time we're all together and talk about it- lol.

By the way, i sucked last night. I even lost the kick and go race to a young buck eventhough i had the faster bike. In this case, youth and diligence overcame old age and overconfidance.

[Bill/BentON Racing]

Frank......................well done,unlike the kick and go!
Ok,Race Report
1st race.....another white slip...thank  you,thank you very much(best Elvis imitation)Cool!
Dialed 8.34....ran 8.51. .056 light 60 ft 2.23,lets see,in order 2.20,2.24,2.12,2.23. 3 out of 4 within .04. MPH 89.96
2nd race dialed 8.44...ran 8.42,oh well so it goes.60 ft.............drumroll please,remember this setup at best was going to do 2.3 according to computer.Well,can you say 2.0131!!!!!!!!!Only ..0132 away from 1.9999!!!!!!! We'll find .014.....I'll push harder off the line  ;)MPH 86.33 I knew we were done..cause I redlighted,went when the yellow went OFF!We both broke out,.02 for us,.03 for him.So discount the MPH.
This bike is much closer,I KNOW!
Bike never ran so good! Thanks to all who help and still do. BE HAPPY,this was supposed to be fun..last night was,Sam in England,Jon's race rained out,simmer down boys,it'll be OK! Bill

[dragracer]

Frank......................well done,unlike the kick and go!
Ok,Race Report
1st race.....another white slip...thank  you,thank you very much(best Elvis imitation)Cool!
Dialed 8.34....ran 8.51. .056 light 60 ft 2.23,lets see,in order 2.20,2.24,2.12,2.23. 3 out of 4 within .04. MPH 89.96
2nd race dialed 8.44...ran 8.42,oh well so it goes.60 ft.............drumroll please,remember this setup at best was going to do 2.3 according to computer.Well,can you say 2.0131!!!!!!!!!Only ..0132 away from 1.9999!!!!!!! We'll find .014.....I'll push harder off the line  ;)MPH 86.33 I knew we were done..cause I redlighted,went when the yellow went OFF!We both broke out,.02 for us,.03 for him.So discount the MPH.
This bike is much closer,I KNOW!
Bike never ran so good! Thanks to all who help and still do. BE HAPPY,this was supposed to be fun..last night was,Sam in England,Jon's race rained out,simmer down boys,it'll be OK! Bill

Now where is Jim with that youtube video of the kick and go race?. The international SOHC community  can share in my embarrasement. I have brought shame and dishonor to the single stick denomination-lol. Next year, i will redeem myself. 

[Sam Green Racing]

Frank, no one is offended but here is the take from the UK.
I appreciate all the hard work done by the team but it's clear to see that the cam is the bigest problem and it only takes a few hours to change it, it's a drop in job on the stock settings. Minor adjustments to carburation and ignition only make the bike quicker, they might make it fractionaly more consistent but no where where it needs to be to be of any use. We were at Valdosta when Chad Isley went out due to dropping 2 10ths, he was dumb struck as to why it had happened, Hondamatics just don't do that, ask Jon. (or Chad if you can find him) Developing a bike might take time and money but a Hondamatic should run consistent times irelavant of/to the state of tune that it's in. If it's a bit off it will run consistent slow numbers, if in tune, quicker ones, but still be more consistent than our bike is now. We have 8 weeks to get it right before I have to perform in front of a European Top Fuel Champion, a former British TF champion, a British Funny Bike Champion and a British  ProStreet Champion, all of who know me, what a let down if I go out in the first round because the bike will not repete.
Billy, if you have the TIME, I have the MONEY. Change the cam and get the bike to Commerce and get some data to work off. $20 to test and tune and ? $30 gas to get you there and back, I'll send it to you each week, just do it.
I don't have a lot of time left (getting tired of working 50 hours a week to fulfill a dream) and when the work stops, the money runs out and I stop everything.
Love you all but this is where the buck stops.

Sam.