Topic: CB750A Street ET bracket drag bike. A year to build it.

[MRieck]

Just my thoughts, but for good measure I hope Bill would consider stripping ALL of the wiring off the bike and starting all over again with just the basics needed to run the bike. Perhaps the wiring wasn't what lead to the mishap in Virginia,  but I've pushed that bike off the end of the track myself because of a blown fuse.  At this point there's no reason to leave any part of the stock harness in place unless the bike retains the full charging system.

It'll be nice to see Sam Auto racing again.

I agree.....to mant butt connectors etc. Got to solder/heat shrink. Also have to use different colored wire.

[kmb69]

.....
I agree.....to mant butt connectors etc. Got to solder/heat shrink. Also have to use different colored wire.

What a party pooper!    That would take the challenge right out of it! 

Wilbur might get lost if it was color coded!     

[MRieck]

.....
I agree.....to mant butt connectors etc. Got to solder/heat shrink. Also have to use different colored wire.

What a party pooper!    That would take the challenge right out of it! 

Wilbur might get lost if it was color coded!    

He does use his tongue as a voltmeter. Accurate to .5 volts and can handle 30 amps.

[gschuld]

.....
I agree.....to mant butt connectors etc. Got to solder/heat shrink. Also have to use different colored wire.

What a party pooper!    That would take the challenge right out of it! 

Wilbur might get lost if it was color coded!    

He does use his tongue as a voltmeter. Accurate to .5 volts and can handle 30 amps.

 

George

[dragracer]

I'm certain Bill will go over the chassis with a fine tooth comb before he installs the freshly built engine this time. He'll have more power so I know he'll get it right.

Our friend Wilbur is a jack of all trades. He'd run circles around Mc Giver any day and is a good guy to have in your corner. He's also coming around as a dedicated racer. He's slowly making changes to his bike to make it more consistent for drag racing. I'm expecting to see him make rounds at the Cup finals in Valdosta.

[madmtnmotors]

.....
I agree.....to mant butt connectors etc. Got to solder/heat shrink. Also have to use different colored wire.

What a party pooper!    That would take the challenge right out of it! 

Wilbur might get lost if it was color coded!    

He does use his tongue as a voltmeter. Accurate to .5 volts and can handle 30 amps.

    

Colors, smolors... make them all black. I'm color blind anyway!     

[scottly]

Since there is no evidence of mechanical failure, even after close scrutiny, I'll propose an alternate theory. I've mentioned this possibility before off-line, out of respect for Sam, but it may be time to make my thoughts public.
IIRC, Bill had fitted a very strong rear brake, actuated by the left hand, AKA clutch, lever. If the motor quit, and the bike was coasting to a stop, Sam's natural inclination from clutch bikes might be to grab a hand-full of "clutch" to extend the coasting distance, locking the rear wheel?

[Sam Green Racing]

Since there is no evidence of mechanical failure, even after close scrutiny, I'll propose an alternate theory. I've mentioned this possibility before off-line, out of respect for Sam, but it may be time to make my thoughts public.
IIRC, Bill had fitted a very strong rear brake, actuated by the left hand, AKA clutch, lever. If the motor quit, and the bike was coasting to a stop, Sam's natural inclination from clutch bikes might be to grab a hand-full of "clutch" to extend the coasting distance, locking the rear wheel?

With out the timing ticket which I think must still be with Billy and the video that Larry Romig took and posted on Facebook which I can't find due to having problems with Facebook, we are still in a guessing game.
 Look at some of of the other info that has come up like the motor was still running after the accident and had to be switched off. I do have proof that it blew a fuse so how did it start itself up after the accident. Also, from memory of seeing that video but it was quite a distance away, the bike went to the left first then came round to the right. Had it low sided me, the bike would have slid away in front of me and the ignition kill tether would have stopped the motor, but from what I heard, it came down on top of me causing all the damage to my upper body and head. Again, if I parted company with the bike in a high side, the kill tether would have again stopped the motor, so no, the answer to that one is no, it wasn't still running.
In respect of Scott's idea and I can see no reason for him thinking it, the answer is no. In all the time I was riding the auto I had never ridden a clutch bike and I also knew the consequences of using the back brake at any speed above almost stopped. Lets hope we can find that video and timing ticket, I'm sure they will tell us more.

[Sam Green Racing]

I'm in touch with a lady at the moment who was track side at half track and was on the scene before the medics but she sounds a little vague, I'm waiting on her getting back with more if she can recall any details.

[Sam Green Racing]

Well she wasn't much help and seemed to think it was just before half track, how much before she couldn't recall.
I've contacted Larry to see if he can find the video so we just need Billy to join in with his thoughts and the timing ticket if possible.
I made almost 50 passes on the bike and have most of the timing tickets apart from the last one so still have all the increments that the bike made down track which might give us an idea what it did on the day if they vary much from previous runs.

[kmb69]

Sam, it was beyond half track - closer to 800-900' if I recall correctly. Mike and I were there within a minute or two and I don't recall any lady present when we first arrived. There was one guy there who told us the engine was still running and that he had switched it off. So, this is second hand info since it was not running when Mike and I got there.

Billy is MIA! Been trying to contact him for a couple of days now. Where's Billy?

[Sam Green Racing]

To many people with different stories Keith, don't forget mate, I don't even remember being in the USA.
I remember arriving at the airport and being met by Billy and and Larry and then BLANK apart from stopping for food just before we reached the hotel we were staying in. We stopped at a late food place and it had a leaking roof, I don't even remember if we stayed to eat and that was all I remember before waking up in hospital.

[dragracer]

Bill's been very busy at work in the last month  or so and still dealing with his shoulder injury/ pain. I'm certain he'll surface soon enough to add any details he can remember.

As we said early on, the cause may never truly come into focus.

[scottly]

Here's a link to the video:

[Bill/BentON Racing]

Bill dealing with drama, report tonight

[kmb69]

Here's a link to the video:

Thanks Scottly.

Bill dealing with drama, report tonight

Drama? No, not you!

[Sam Green Racing]

Thanks Scott, It wasn't nice watching that again but as you can see, I'm more or less with Billy at the 330 but go off camera.
When I come back onto it, I'm sat up so that's where it must have cut out if it did cut out.
It looks like it starts to slide as I go through/past the two timing blocks (speed trap) at half track but it looks like I never parted company with the bike so if the kill tether didn't shut off the ignition, who knows if it was running or not and it does just about sound as if it is decelerating just before, not suddenly going silent like it would do if the ignition cut out.
Over to you guys, whats done is done as far as I'm concerned and nothing I can say will change things.
It would be nice if Billy could find that time slip though.
I'm still indebted to you all and thanks for 5 years of wonderful friendship and stacks of fun.

Best regards, Sam. 

[Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er]

I have been trying to view the video in stopped segments. Am I seeing smoke from the front tire?

[Sam Green Racing]

Not that I can see Jerry.

[kmb69]

I have been trying to view the video in stopped segments. Am I seeing smoke from the front tire?

Not that I can see Jerry.

Jerry may have something. Viewing it slo-mo and stopping the video, I think I can see smoke, reflection, liquid splash, or something at the front wheel when it all started to go wrong. Kind of looks to me like the back wheel was still driving.

[Tintop]

Not sure this info helps any but....I was once told by a tow truck driver that they always pick-up automatics by the driven wheels because if they are turning (even with engine off, in neutral) they turn the drive shaft and this can cause the torque convertor to lock-up.  So in this situation Sam would have still been going fast enough to have have this occur.  Would explain why the bike seems to coast fine as he sits up, then reacts like the rear wheel suddenly locked up.

my .02 

[Tintop]

A thought.....  If the torque convertor 'reverse' lock-up scenario is possible then that would explain a lot.  Sam says the engine died, at which point he sat up.  However others say it was running after the high side.  If Sam just sat up but didn't hit the kill switch, or shift to neutral, then the torque converter locking up would have restarted the engine (like a bump start) which would explain the violent powered spin at the end, and why it was running, and the wheel turning.  It would also explain why Mike found no mechanical issue.  Which leads back to it being an intermittent electrical fault that killed the ignition, then it worked again.  This is very possible as I fought that issue with the sidecar.  Running great then just die; pull off track, and it would then restart.

[gschuld]

I have a hard time understanding how it would be possible for the engine to have been running post crash as its clear Sam's hands were off the grips once the alternator cover touched down and threw him down.  Unless the tether was defective, it certainly should have shut off the engine IF it had been running at the time of the spinout.

George

[bwaller]

Thought there was a blown fuse?

[kmb69]

Not sure this info helps any but....I was once told by a tow truck driver that they always pick-up automatics by the driven wheels because if they are turning (even with engine off, in neutral) they turn the drive shaft and this can cause the torque convertor to lock-up.  So in this situation Sam would have still been going fast enough to have have this occur.  Would explain why the bike seems to coast fine as he sits up, then reacts like the rear wheel suddenly locked up.
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I don't think it works that way. I was just looking at one I have open in the shop and it appears that one of the clutches has to be engaged to turn the turbine with the rear wheel even if it's not in neutral. Neutral just diverts the pressure to neither clutch via a spool valve. The spool valve is designed so that it can only engage one clutch at a time. The turbine is splined to the main shaft but it freewheels unless a clutch is engaged. The engine has to be running, making oil pressure, to engage a clutch - they are both open or disengaged by default. My original PIOOMA theory was that both clutches had engaged and locked the rear wheel. Mike found no obstructions in the hydraulic passages that would have caused the low clutch to stay engaged. Hard to figure this one out.

I have a hard time understanding how it would be possible for the engine to have been running post crash as its clear Sam's hands were off the grips once the alternator cover touched down and threw him down.  Unless the tether was defective, it certainly should have shut off the engine IF it had been running at the time of the spinout.

George

Sam and the bike were still one as it landed on him. Maybe the tether was too long. The guy that jumped off that minibike, first one there, told me he had to kill the engine. Sam sitting up prior to the crash would indicate he thought something was going wrong but unfortunately he can't remember.

Thought there was a blown fuse?

Mike and I were just talking about this and we are pretty sure we started the bike after we got it back to the pits. Also, it rolled just fine taking it back to the pits.

One of my son-in-laws is a professional graphics guy. We emailed the video to him earlier today to hopefully get frame by frame pictures and see if we can see something.