Author Topic: CB750A Street ET bracket drag bike. A year to build it.  (Read 607538 times)

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Offline Bill/BentON Racing

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Re: CB750A Street ET bracket drag bike. A year to build it.
« Reply #175 on: November 27, 2010, 03:17:24 pm »
Sam,Mike's right...no seat yet,probably Monday. :( Looking forward to checking it out.
Installed 1979 CBX European sport switch,cables go up instead of down...other one was broken where A cable attached.Bill


Off for more. ;D,Bill
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Offline Bill/BentON Racing

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Re: CB750A Street ET bracket drag bike. A year to build it.
« Reply #176 on: November 27, 2010, 03:21:59 pm »
Don't need a dual petcock. You can modify the carbs if you need to, but it's a wasted, time consuming task. A single outlet Pingel petcock works fine. You'll have enough fun mounting the carbs and manifolds to the head. The fine art of gentle persuasion..!

                                                                Hondamatic   :-\
Jon,thanks,I'm really looking forward to carb installation ;)hopefully they'll be on this time next week. ;D,Thanks for the help,I'm sure to need more.Bill
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Over 35 years of experience working on vintage motorcycles, with a speciality in Honda SOHC/4 with a focus on the CB750 and other models as well from 1966 - 1985.
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1993 HRC RS125 | 1984 NS400R | 1974 Honda CB750/836cc (Calendar Girl) | 1972 CB 500/550 Yoshi Kitted 590cc | 1965 Honda CB450 Black Bomber | 1972 Suzuki T350 | 1973 88cc | Z50/Falcons Pit Bike | 1967 CA100| 1974 CB350 (400F motor)...and more.
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Offline Sam Green Racing

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Re: CB750A Street ET bracket drag bike. A year to build it.
« Reply #177 on: November 27, 2010, 11:45:33 pm »
Did the seat reach you yet Billy, they said 5 days max.

Sam. ;)
Holiday and such Sam....don't be surprised if it takes 2 or 3 more.

Sorry you guys, my mess up. ::)

Sam. ;)
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Offline Bill/BentON Racing

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Re: CB750A Street ET bracket drag bike. A year to build it.
« Reply #178 on: November 30, 2010, 05:27:18 pm »
Sam,still no seat,probably tomorrow.Did get "your" headlight assembled(parts from 3 old units) and installed.F/fender mocked up.F/wheel is ready except for hi speed balancing.Has grips now(gotta safety wire them).Also new positive and negtive cables.A couple of pics:

Mike,had to paint the starter cover wrinkle blk also,been 30 years since I sprayed wrinkle finish! :D

Sam,your headlight ;)

Off to look for more pcs.Oh by the way,may have some real interesting pics soon of old 750 race bikes
and possibly working on them. ;D,Bill
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Over 35 years of experience working on vintage motorcycles, with a speciality in Honda SOHC/4 with a focus on the CB750 and other models as well from 1966 - 1985.
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1993 HRC RS125 | 1984 NS400R | 1974 Honda CB750/836cc (Calendar Girl) | 1972 CB 500/550 Yoshi Kitted 590cc | 1965 Honda CB450 Black Bomber | 1972 Suzuki T350 | 1973 88cc | Z50/Falcons Pit Bike | 1967 CA100| 1974 CB350 (400F motor)...and more.
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Offline H2Eric

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Re: CB750A Street ET bracket drag bike. A year to build it.
« Reply #179 on: December 01, 2010, 04:10:34 am »
I do like that tank. Black and gold always looks well on a bike. Reminds me of an AJS 7R  :) :) :)

Keep up the good work
Eric
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Offline Sam Green Racing

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Re: CB750A Street ET bracket drag bike. A year to build it.
« Reply #180 on: December 01, 2010, 04:19:34 am »
Hope it's a bit quicker than a 7R Eric ;D

Sam. ;)
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Offline H2Eric

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Re: CB750A Street ET bracket drag bike. A year to build it.
« Reply #181 on: December 01, 2010, 04:23:11 am »
Hope it's a bit quicker than a 7R Eric ;D

Sam. ;)

It'll be quicker than a 7R even if you have to push it !!
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Offline Sam Green Racing

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Re: CB750A Street ET bracket drag bike. A year to build it.
« Reply #182 on: December 01, 2010, 05:45:25 am »
 ;)
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Offline Lil Grizz

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Re: CB750A Street ET bracket drag bike. A year to build it.
« Reply #183 on: December 01, 2010, 06:02:24 am »
Looks great guys!
Big Grizzly
Randy Carabelli Built and tuned WERA/AMA/AHRMA Formula 750 Champion Honda

1971 Yoshimura partnered R&D - Qualified 11th Daytona (James Christiano)
1975 WERA; #2 Expert Open 750 (John Fuchs)
1976 WERA Champion; #1 500cc, #1 Expert Open 750 (John Fuchs)
1976 AMA Daytona World Championship - Only Honda to qualify (John Fuchs)
1997 AHRMA Progressive Suspension Historic Cup F750 Champion (Will Harding)
1999 AHRMA Progressive Suspension Historic Cup Formula Vintage Champion (Will Harding)

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Offline Sam Green Racing

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Re: CB750A Street ET bracket drag bike. A year to build it.
« Reply #184 on: December 01, 2010, 06:35:17 am »
Now then young Marc, don't you be going round there pinching bits off it. ;D ;D ;D

Did you find out how close you are to Billy ?

Sam. ;)
C95 sprint bike.
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Offline dragracer

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Re: CB750A Street ET bracket drag bike. A year to build it.
« Reply #185 on: December 01, 2010, 02:42:48 pm »
What's going to keep the battery charged ? need a lot of sparks (unless we go out in first round  :-[) need lights for night running (most event run into the night) need starter motor for starting (unless you've found a kick start). Don't work to hard ;D ;D ;D ;D

Sam. ;)

Working headlights aren't necessary but there has to be a tail light in case you run into night racing. Street ET bikes must be self starting and use street tires- those are the main requirements. 

I use a battery powered bicycle light and screwed it into the plastic lens on my F model. It shines through the lens and you can select what mode to use-on all the time, flashing or even strobe to confuse the competitors. I would also suggest maybe wiring in an LED type 12 volt light with low amperage draw and place it inside the tail light assembly. I got one from Advance Auto for my Kaw dragbike- very bright.  I wouldn't think of running that sealed beam or other headlight with a total loss system with a Dyna 2000 ignition. Unlike MSD, Dyna needs lots of voltage to operate correctly- thats why i only run MSD. If you have to use a headlight, put a battery operated light inside that headlight assembly.

Offline Bill/BentON Racing

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Re: CB750A Street ET bracket drag bike. A year to build it.
« Reply #186 on: December 01, 2010, 03:37:49 pm »
Dragracer MSD like this,MC-1? See new headlight bulb in pic!Sam,a handheld battery box will fire us right up should you stall I mean it cut off ;) ;D..more likely me!I'll get Dyna 2000 out tonite and check for minimum voltage etc.754 ,I agree.Dragracer,Thanks and L'il Grizzly welcome aboard!See ya Sat. ;D,Bill
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Over 35 years of experience working on vintage motorcycles, with a speciality in Honda SOHC/4 with a focus on the CB750 and other models as well from 1966 - 1985.
______________________________________
1993 HRC RS125 | 1984 NS400R | 1974 Honda CB750/836cc (Calendar Girl) | 1972 CB 500/550 Yoshi Kitted 590cc | 1965 Honda CB450 Black Bomber | 1972 Suzuki T350 | 1973 88cc | Z50/Falcons Pit Bike | 1967 CA100| 1974 CB350 (400F motor)...and more.
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Offline j4hfr34k

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Re: CB750A Street ET bracket drag bike. A year to build it.
« Reply #187 on: December 01, 2010, 03:51:33 pm »
Hey Sam you do know the autos come with a removable kick start lever for emergencies, is you havent removed the gear I have a spare lever, it slips over a shaft under the left side foot peg below the gear shift. It has a ball like a ratchet that it clicks on, u kick it (really  easy tho it looks awkward) then click ot off and go. It has a littke spot under seat to keep it too but if saving weight just leave it In pits.
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Offline Bill/BentON Racing

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Re: CB750A Street ET bracket drag bike. A year to build it.
« Reply #188 on: December 01, 2010, 04:47:30 pm »
That was the emergency plan......old men kickstarting hi comp 836cc! ;D,but that shaft and its related parts were expertly removed by one M.Rieck.....I would have done the same thing. ;)Cranking or keeping it running shouldn't be a problem. More later.Bill
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Over 35 years of experience working on vintage motorcycles, with a speciality in Honda SOHC/4 with a focus on the CB750 and other models as well from 1966 - 1985.
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Offline j4hfr34k

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Re: CB750A Street ET bracket drag bike. A year to build it.
« Reply #189 on: December 01, 2010, 04:55:12 pm »
I hadn't thought of that before I opened my mouth. I do have a qyestion for Yall since ur working in an auto, is it possible, or theoretically possible to add another gear or two to thr auto?
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Offline Bill/BentON Racing

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Re: CB750A Street ET bracket drag bike. A year to build it.
« Reply #190 on: December 01, 2010, 06:25:37 pm »
Mike you got it.....I think as long as we need 12v plus that maintenance free 12v21amp will go and go,plus we will have another back up and a hand held battery jump box if needed.Headlight can use flashlight or bulb...prefer flashlight.Tailight same.I used to use a 12v12amp battery and would run ignition only(Dyna S)for 25 mile sprint race.
battery still would be over 12v.Can vouch for Dyna's not working w/out 12v might spark @11+volts,but not 10+.Raced Road A on Sat.Sunday morning only time 590cc racebike didn't fire immediately...didn't fire at all! >:(
Was running Dyna III on that bike,had 12v going in box,10+ coming out.Replaced with Dyna S,never another ignition problem.Answer on more gears.You can change the gearing,but not more gears!1st and 2nd only.If it can or could be done Jon Weeks,Mr.Automatic will let us know. ;),Bill
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Over 35 years of experience working on vintage motorcycles, with a speciality in Honda SOHC/4 with a focus on the CB750 and other models as well from 1966 - 1985.
______________________________________
1993 HRC RS125 | 1984 NS400R | 1974 Honda CB750/836cc (Calendar Girl) | 1972 CB 500/550 Yoshi Kitted 590cc | 1965 Honda CB450 Black Bomber | 1972 Suzuki T350 | 1973 88cc | Z50/Falcons Pit Bike | 1967 CA100| 1974 CB350 (400F motor)...and more.
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Online Leino

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Re: CB750A Street ET bracket drag bike. A year to build it.
« Reply #191 on: December 02, 2010, 12:56:03 am »
That auto battery box is so large you can easily fit an Odyssey battery or something like it.
Odyssey battery works great on the JMR-Suzuki, total loss, Dyna 2000.
Starter kicks like a mule even after 5-6 rounds without recharging.

Offline Sam Green Racing

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Re: CB750A Street ET bracket drag bike. A year to build it.
« Reply #192 on: December 02, 2010, 04:58:28 am »
Well done team, you're filling me with confidence ;D ;D ;D ;D

Sam. ;)
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Offline dragracer

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Re: CB750A Street ET bracket drag bike. A year to build it.
« Reply #193 on: December 02, 2010, 09:59:54 pm »
What's going to keep the battery charged ? need a lot of sparks (unless we go out in first round  :-[) need lights for night running (most event run into the night) need starter motor for starting (unless you've found a kick start). Don't work to hard ;D ;D ;D ;D

Sam. ;)

Working headlights aren't necessary but there has to be a tail light in case you run into night racing. Street ET bikes must be self starting and use street tires- those are the main requirements. 

I use a battery powered bicycle light and screwed it into the plastic lens on my F model. It shines through the lens and you can select what mode to use-on all the time, flashing or even strobe to confuse the competitors. I would also suggest maybe wiring in an LED type 12 volt light with low amperage draw and place it inside the tail light assembly. I got one from Advance Auto for my Kaw dragbike- very bright.  I wouldn't think of running that sealed beam or other headlight with a total loss system with a Dyna 2000 ignition. Unlike MSD, Dyna needs lots of voltage to operate correctly- thats why i only run MSD. If you have to use a headlight, put a battery operated light inside that headlight assembly.

Thank's for that Frank, I was under the impression that the lights had to be working. :-[

You didn't get back to me about that clash of dates that you mentioned for the MIROCK and SEMDRA dates.
Are you sure these dates clash as the People that are organising the Manufacturers Spring Cup are still in talks with the two clubs so that the events don't clash. Would be nice to do all three for one plane ticket. ::)

Sam. ;)

Sam, on my GSXR 1100 i keep the headlight off when i'm racing but its still functional. I only turn it on at night coming back to the pits- not so much for me to see where i'm going but for the drunk idiots that got eliminated earlier in the day who are wandering around aimlessly.

Yes, the Cup people are waiting on SEMDRA and MIROCK but i heard from a reliable source that there would be a conflict between the Rockingham race and the 1st SEMDRA race.  While i did question the wisdom of  scheduling the SEMDRA race at that time, i was told to ask why MIROCK had scheduled on top of SEMDRA. Oh well, i guess the mindset is my kingdom is bigger and more important than yours so i'm not bending under any circumstances.  At any rate, maybe they will coordinate the schedules once both realize that one feeds from the other so why split racers between the two. MIROCK is growing bigger and better but SEMDRA has plained out- i feel they should do whatever it takes to retain racers.


Offline dragracer

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Re: CB750A Street ET bracket drag bike. A year to build it.
« Reply #194 on: December 02, 2010, 10:20:52 pm »
Dragracer MSD like this,MC-1? See new headlight bulb in pic!Sam,a handheld battery box will fire us right up should you stall I mean it cut off ;) ;D..more likely me!I'll get Dyna 2000 out tonite and check for minimum voltage etc.754 ,I agree.Dragracer,Thanks and L'il Grizzly welcome aboard!See ya Sat. ;D,Bill

Wow, you mean someone still has an MC1 with the original box??? I've got an MC3 on my SS and one on my Kaw. I use a standard 14amp battery in both but i do charge them between rounds and have no onboard starter to draw down the voltage.

I agree that an Odyssey battery is the way to go to retain sufficient voltage between rounds in case they round robin you and there's no time to charge the battery. Keeping a swap out battery on hand makes sense as well.

Hey, do you guys plan to put an airshifter on the bike for that one shift it makes??? Lol.

Oh yeah, one other question about launching the bike, since it has a convertor that i assume has been modified for a higher launch stall, do you intend to put a rear brake master cylinder on the left side hand bars so you can flash the convertor and launch off the lever??? Seems like doing it this way would give a better reaction time and decrease the 60' versus putting your foot on  the existing rear brake pedal to flash the convertor or just rolling hard on the throttle from idle. No rules say you can't put both brake levers on the handle bars as far as i know.

Offline Sam Green Racing

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Re: CB750A Street ET bracket drag bike. A year to build it.
« Reply #195 on: December 03, 2010, 01:24:10 am »
We do have an air shifter Frank but there is no rush to fit it as the bike will run more or less the same time even launching in top.
Re the rear brake/clutch master cylinder for use instead of foot brake, check out the pics on page 16. ;D

Sam. ;)
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JMR Racing CB750A street ET drag bike

Offline jweeks

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Re: CB750A Street ET bracket drag bike. A year to build it.
« Reply #196 on: December 03, 2010, 07:30:52 am »
Wow, miss a few days - I miss a lot around here. MC-1 bad for a total loss system. Got to go to a digital MSD box. It will run the bike at a far lower voltage than the MC-1 will. How do I know? Prostar race; second round; bike is normal until 400'. Wouldn't rev over 5 grand. Lost race. MC-1 with 10.9 volts. Went to see MSD trailer at Indy Nationals later that year. Found out that the MC-1 couldn't handle the low voltage that my battery had dropped to. The digital boxes that MSD had (and tested in front of me) would run at least 1.5 volts lower than the analog MC-1. I was running a Yuasa 16 volt battery with 5 passes on it from fully charged. If you've got an aftermarket ignition that has a wire for electronic tach, you'll be ahead of the game. The stock mechanical tach of  the 750 series will work with the automatics; it's just not that accurate. The mechanical tachs will repeat accurately, they just may be a few hundred rpm off. For drag racing, the only critical rpm is the redline. I use MSD with a redline chip to ensure that no valves get introduced to any of my rotating pistons. You use the tach for the one shift. I've used the mechanical tach for shifting with a .001 second variation between back to back quarter mile passes.
     Yes the bike revs faster without the charging system. No, the street bikes aren't required to show a working headlight or turn signals. Yes, a lot of racers use a switched led as the tail light. Those are required in case you run off of the end of the track, beyond the track lighting. The people in the tower want to know if you are off of the track safely or not. Stock batteries weigh a lot. Most serious racers have gone to the rechargeable drill batteries on their bikes. Custom mounts for the batteries are available. They change out in seconds. Haven't tried to restart a bike with them. The only time that you would be required to restart a bike is if you are shut down coming up to the starting line. Usually that happens when there is a problem at the far end of the track or the timing system has a problem.
     Flashing the converter is being thought of wrong. If you apply the rear brake and give the bike gas, you are loading the motor against the converter slippage. To "flash" the converter, you would bring the rpms up just as you leave the starting line. Without a load on the converter, it will slip more briefly. This will allow you to leave the line at a higher rpm. (flashes higher) The problem with flashing the converter is that you can't do it consistantly. Sam is doing bracket racing. A couple of hundredths quicker inconsistently isn't what he wants. The load of brake is a very effective rev limiter for the torque converter. Most drag racing bracket street classes don't allow a launch rev limiter. The Hondamatic has a natural one until you get very high horsepower. Every torque converter has a stall speed. That means that if you can rev the motor to that rpm against a brake, the bike will stall/stop running. The load that the torque converter applies to the motor keeps the rpms below the stall speed for most circumstances. My 10 second Hondamatic uses a two step to keep the rpms at a fixed point below the stall speed for my launches. Sam's motor doesn't make quite that much horsepower... Remember that when you dyno test a Hondamatic, you're losing at least 20% of the horsepower through the slippage of the torque converter. The forced slippage of the converter causes a dramatic rise in the temperature of the oil in the bike/converter. That's why you can't load the converter for very long on the starting line. The higher oil temperatures thin out the oil's viscosity and slows the bike. You have to use a good external oil cooler to try to control the oil temperature fluctuations. Consistency racing is reducing all variations as much as possible.
     Transmissions - my favorite fantasy. Two wide gears control the Hondamatic. Newer bikes use thinner/stronger gears. There is physically room enough to fit a 4 speed into the motor. (say from a newer 600cc sport bike) Since you'll never see over 100 horsepower at the gears (20+% loss in the converter) the strength isn't an issue. The custom shafts for the gears; the shift forks and mounts for the two additional gears; the shift drum to control all of that - well I just feel that the cost is rather high.....! IF you're going to do all of that, why would you keep the two clutch packs and shafts between the converter and the tranny? The clutch packs are to cushion the shifts/launches. Another variable that isn't desired in racing. I'd like to see a sprocket/chain arrangement to bypass the clutches and a complete transmission module from another bike used. That has some machining issues and a big strength issue when welding to the stock case half. Maybe it can be done. I know that someday I will try it. If anybody is ahead of me, please post pictures!!!!


                                                                          Hondamatic ;)

Offline Bill/BentON Racing

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Re: CB750A Street ET bracket drag bike. A year to build it.
« Reply #197 on: December 04, 2010, 06:29:27 am »
Jon,thanks,we'll be running the GSXR tach,will wire to Dyna 2000,the ignition we'll also be using.May wire low wattage bulb for headlight,we're running a CBX control with a switch,but am drilling back of shell for quick swap out to flashlight if needed.Tailight,switched LED or something similar to headlight.Battery to start will be the one in pics,12v21amp.Brakes up front ;stock caliper or Brembo 4 piston....if we can solve clearance problem with spokes.
Just finished installing new fork oil and seals,gotta paint lower legs(as soon as it warms up)gloss black.Then reassemble f/end with a better tire,wheel(old one bent)and disc..disc 2.6 lbs. lighter.Pics later today.Thanks,Bill
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Over 35 years of experience working on vintage motorcycles, with a speciality in Honda SOHC/4 with a focus on the CB750 and other models as well from 1966 - 1985.
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1993 HRC RS125 | 1984 NS400R | 1974 Honda CB750/836cc (Calendar Girl) | 1972 CB 500/550 Yoshi Kitted 590cc | 1965 Honda CB450 Black Bomber | 1972 Suzuki T350 | 1973 88cc | Z50/Falcons Pit Bike | 1967 CA100| 1974 CB350 (400F motor)...and more.
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Offline Bill/BentON Racing

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Re: CB750A Street ET bracket drag bike. A year to build it.
« Reply #198 on: December 04, 2010, 04:52:52 pm »
More pics! Damn it Gumby,won't quit raining,I need to paint lower legs. :(

Sam,you didn't really go down the strip with this? ;D ;D ;D :o :o

I thought I was supposed to put it together..not take it apart! ;D
Sam leaves all the dirty work for me. :o ;D
BentON Racing Website
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Over 35 years of experience working on vintage motorcycles, with a speciality in Honda SOHC/4 with a focus on the CB750 and other models as well from 1966 - 1985.
______________________________________
1993 HRC RS125 | 1984 NS400R | 1974 Honda CB750/836cc (Calendar Girl) | 1972 CB 500/550 Yoshi Kitted 590cc | 1965 Honda CB450 Black Bomber | 1972 Suzuki T350 | 1973 88cc | Z50/Falcons Pit Bike | 1967 CA100| 1974 CB350 (400F motor)...and more.
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See our latest build 'Captain Marvel' CLICK HERE

Offline bwaller

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Re: CB750A Street ET bracket drag bike. A year to build it.
« Reply #199 on: December 04, 2010, 07:15:12 pm »
Ah I don't know Mike, is it ever any different in a build like this? It all looks familiar... thrity-five years worth of slow going, scratch & claw for every inch of progress. It's starting to look good though guys.

Oh and I bet the crew chief sure would like to be closer at times.