Author Topic: CB750A Street ET bracket drag bike. A year to build it.  (Read 618554 times)

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Offline jweeks

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Re: CB750A Street ET bracket drag bike. A year to build it.
« Reply #400 on: February 02, 2011, 04:38:52 AM »
Weekend in Rockingham - $700

Advice on winning - Free

Seeing Sam's face when he reads his first winning time slip - Priceless!!!

 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

     JW

Offline Bill/BentON Racing

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Re: CB750A Street ET bracket drag bike. A year to build it.
« Reply #401 on: February 02, 2011, 05:08:37 AM »
Weekend in Rockingham - $700

Advice on winning - Free

Seeing Sam's face when he reads his first winning time slip - Priceless!!!

 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

     JW
AMEN!!! ;) ;D ;D ;D,it will happen,Samauto much closer! ::)
BentON Racing Website
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Over 35 years of experience working on vintage motorcycles, with a speciality in Honda SOHC/4 with a focus on the CB750 and other models as well from 1966 - 1985.
______________________________________
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Offline Jim F

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Re: CB750A Street ET bracket drag bike. A year to build it.
« Reply #402 on: February 02, 2011, 05:38:07 AM »
I sent the link from Tiger to Bill yesterday and wanted to see if this would work.

http://www.1st-to-the-finish-line.com/products/chain-guard/universal.html

I will call and order if I get the green (Get it ) light.
I have the brake arm ready for one more fitting.
should be done with this over the weekend.

Our racing season has started with the 24 Hrs of Daytona
Cant wait too see Sam Green racing as well

Jim



2002 RC51 1000 (SP2)
1983 GS1100EC Suzuki
2002 998 Dukati (Customers Bike)
1992 KTM500 2 stroke
1975 CB750/836 Honda
1978 GS750/840 Suzuki

Offline Bill/BentON Racing

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Re: CB750A Street ET bracket drag bike. A year to build it.
« Reply #403 on: February 02, 2011, 05:43:32 AM »
Jim,the first one pictured is the one I recommend.Bill ;D
BentON Racing Website
OEM Parts | Service | Custom Builds
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Over 35 years of experience working on vintage motorcycles, with a speciality in Honda SOHC/4 with a focus on the CB750 and other models as well from 1966 - 1985.
______________________________________
1993 HRC RS125 | 1984 NS400R | 1974 Honda CB750/836cc (Calendar Girl) | 1972 CB 500/550 Yoshi Kitted 590cc | 1965 Honda CB450 Black Bomber | 1972 Suzuki T350 | 1973 88cc | Z50/Falcons Pit Bike | 1967 CA100| 1974 CB350 (400F motor)...and more.
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Offline Sam Green Racing

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Re: CB750A Street ET bracket drag bike. A year to build it.
« Reply #404 on: February 02, 2011, 06:11:50 AM »
I think you need to tell Guy how long it needs to be, just my 2 pence. ::)

Sam. ;)
C95 sprint bike.
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Offline Sam Green Racing

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Re: CB750A Street ET bracket drag bike. A year to build it.
« Reply #405 on: February 02, 2011, 06:36:08 AM »
Weekend in Rockingham - $700

Advice on winning - Free

Seeing Sam's face when he reads his first winning time slip - Priceless!!!

 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

     JW

I'll give it my best shot but, WINNING :o :o :o :o more chance of the Pope becoming a dad. ;)

Sam. ;)
C95 sprint bike.
CB95 hybrid race bike
CB95 race bike
CB92
RS 175. sprint/land speed bike
JMR Racing CB750A street ET drag bike

Offline jweeks

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Re: CB750A Street ET bracket drag bike. A year to build it.
« Reply #406 on: February 02, 2011, 05:03:36 PM »
Sam,
     A winning time slip means winning one round of racing. Your Hondamatic will be one of the slowest bikes in Pro ET. That means that you will leave the starting line first almost all of the time. Your job is to leave the starting line with a half decent reaction time. You will leave 2 to 3 seconds before most of your competition. Some inexperienced racers will get nervous watching you go down the track while they wait for their tree to start down. That may cause them to red light, getting impatient to start catching you. Your opponent may also be distracted by the wait, watching you instead of watching for the tree to start down. This may cause them to have a bad reaction time. Some of the "experienced" racers will dial in soft, saying that it will take them longer to get to the finish line than it really will. The very quick ones like to do that. They are the ones catching the slower bikes, judging their throttle to get to the finish line just before their slower opponent. They go 145-160 mph on the top end. Most opponents go 125-140 mph. They are closing on the slower opponent by 5 to 20 mph. The small speed difference makes it relatively easy to judge how much gas to use to just pass the slower bike just before the finish line. They don't run right on their dial in, but win the races against poor reaction drivers and or slower bikes with problems.(missed shifts, wheelies, lack of traction, etc.) Fast bikes also have potential traction problems and breakage that may affect them. Dialing "soft" allows them to have a chance even if they have small problems.
     This works for most occasions except with slow Hondamatics. Visually, you look like most drag bikes to half track for an opponent trying to catch you. The second half of the track, it looks to them like you're on the brakes! You're running around 108-110 mph top end. They're closing on you at 35 -50 mph faster. It's much harder to judge putting their front wheel just in front of yours in the last 5 feet before the finish line when they're closing at a faster rate than usual. The other expectation that quick bike riders have is that a slow bike means a beginner. A beginner is inexperienced; poor reaction times and a lot of variations in the elapsed time it takes them to get to the finish line. Hondamatics don't know how to vary a lot. They don't spin tires, they don't miss shifts, they don't vary on launch due to inexperienced clutch release hands. They will repeat within a few hundredths. Fast bikes hate Hondamatics. They can't play games trying to judge the finish line. Their very expensive hardware can be beaten by a "beginner". Ego's are fragile; losing to an older, less expensive looking bike is undesirable.
     Sam, I've listed at least 4-5 ways that your opponent can beat him/herself without you doing much right! The Pope needs to change his opinion on protection.  You've got a  good chance to get at least one winning time slip. The Pope is on his own.... ;D ;D ;D

                                                         JW

Offline dragracer

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Re: CB750A Street ET bracket drag bike. A year to build it.
« Reply #407 on: February 02, 2011, 09:31:05 PM »
Hey Frank, quite a few people over on Dragbike.com rate Jackson as being the best option, did you manage to speak to Bill Wilson?
One of your mates, Keith LeBlanc is going to try to get there as well, he sure speaks well of you. 8)  ;)

Sam. ;)

Have not spoken to Bill as of yet. Will do so by the weekend and report back to you. Keith and i are long time rivals- friendly of course ;D. Seriously, we are good friends and have raced together for many years. He called me to let me know he was also working with you to find a good place to test. He had a call into Angel Miles, the co-owner of Carolina Dragway to be sure they would allow open testing. I told him to explain  to her you were coming from over the pond and this test session is very important for you as its the only opportunity you would have before going into race mode. I feel they will be accommodating of your needs. If not, we will find you an 1/8th mile track to at least get some seat time in and to dial the bike for the first 660'.

Fayetteville Motorsports Park is an option for 1/4 mile so check out their website. IF you go that far, you might consider Rockingham if they are open that weekend.

Offline Sam Green Racing

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Re: CB750A Street ET bracket drag bike. A year to build it.
« Reply #408 on: February 03, 2011, 08:57:56 AM »
Ya know guys, I really do feel privileged knowing that I have you lot batting for me, gives me a warm glow inside. 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)

Sam. ;)
C95 sprint bike.
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CB92
RS 175. sprint/land speed bike
JMR Racing CB750A street ET drag bike

Offline Jim F

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Re: CB750A Street ET bracket drag bike. A year to build it.
« Reply #409 on: February 03, 2011, 05:09:42 PM »
Talked to bill the other day and the chain guard for a 0-6 over swing arm will work
Guy e-mailed me back last night and gave me a price
will order tonight

to be continued

Jim
2002 RC51 1000 (SP2)
1983 GS1100EC Suzuki
2002 998 Dukati (Customers Bike)
1992 KTM500 2 stroke
1975 CB750/836 Honda
1978 GS750/840 Suzuki

Offline Bill/BentON Racing

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Re: CB750A Street ET bracket drag bike. A year to build it.
« Reply #410 on: February 03, 2011, 08:30:21 PM »
It's coming together,I mean apart!
Thanks,Jon Weeks,Samauto's in the 11's! ;) ;D

Time to wire! 8)


More parts tomorrow! ;D

Jon,thanks so much for the cool log book and the ET board.;D,Bill
BentON Racing Website
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Over 35 years of experience working on vintage motorcycles, with a speciality in Honda SOHC/4 with a focus on the CB750 and other models as well from 1966 - 1985.
______________________________________
1993 HRC RS125 | 1984 NS400R | 1974 Honda CB750/836cc (Calendar Girl) | 1972 CB 500/550 Yoshi Kitted 590cc | 1965 Honda CB450 Black Bomber | 1972 Suzuki T350 | 1973 88cc | Z50/Falcons Pit Bike | 1967 CA100| 1974 CB350 (400F motor)...and more.
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See our latest build 'Captain Marvel' CLICK HERE

Offline Sam Green Racing

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Re: CB750A Street ET bracket drag bike. A year to build it.
« Reply #411 on: February 04, 2011, 07:41:05 AM »
It's not looking good for testing at Carolina, just got this email from Franks mate Keith LeBlanc.

 Not looking good, Sam. Car event scheduled for 11-12. Track will have switched from Sunday T&T to Sat T&T by the time that weekend rolls around. Have left phone message with one of the track owners as well as posted on the track forum as to the possibility of some time trials for us sometime during the event, but heve not received a response as yet.
 Frank is also looking into some other track schedules, so keep in touch with him. Unfortunatly they are all farther from Atlanta than Jackson. There are also some smaller tracks closer to Atlanta but are 1/8th mile only and/or of questionable or unknown to me quality. Ask him about Twiggs as it has recently undergone renovation rumor has it. Still only 1/8th mile and not nearly as far as Valdosta. I'm sure some shakedown would be better than none before you get to Rockingham.
 Keith LeBlanc

Sam. :(
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Offline jweeks

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Re: CB750A Street ET bracket drag bike. A year to build it.
« Reply #412 on: February 04, 2011, 11:19:58 AM »
Sam,
     I agree that 1/8th mile testing is far better than none at all. Improving reaction times and getting a feeling for the launch then the wheelie are what's needed. Just run it out the back door in low gear. Should be in the higher 7's at around ~84 mph. Hanging on for the second 1/8th mile is the easy part. The only challenge there is with your neck muscles when it gets over a hundred.... You need a track that uses some traction compound on the track because you need to practice on similar track conditions to Rockingham. Making laps will help a lot. Remember to practice like you race. Never make runs within 15 minutes of each other. Oil temperatures will be affected by "hot" lapping the bike. The log book will help determine what is normal for that bike. For just starting out in bracket racing, practice and racing against competition is exactly the same. If you think that it's different because of someone being in the other lane, you're at a disadvantage. It's so easy to say, see the third yellow light, move the bike forward. It will be the most frustrating part of bracket racing, because it's so hard to control yourself. Practice helps to reduce the variations that you will have when you go down the track. Getting consistent in reaction times in practice is far more important than cutting a "good" light. We can fix the slow, consistent reactions, but we can't fix reactions that are all over the dial. Everybody reading this is pulling for you Sam.  ;D ;D ;D

                                                                            JW

Offline Sam Green Racing

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Re: CB750A Street ET bracket drag bike. A year to build it.
« Reply #413 on: February 04, 2011, 01:31:43 PM »
Hi Jon, I don't have a problem with running over the 8th mile. Over the last 20 years, I've probably done more 8th mile events than quarters.
The bigest problem will be getting to grips with a new bike that will probably launch a lot quicker and harder than anything I've ever been on.
Second problem is learning how to drag race. In the last 36 years I've only competed in 3 drag races and even they were all over the 8th mile. Learning to read the lights at the same time as learning to ride the new bike is going to be some experience.
I'll dig out some time slips that show the differences racing a bike that I knew but not the track, then slips where I was on a much more powerfull and strange bike on a very well prepaired track that I had never raced on.

Sam. ;)
C95 sprint bike.
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CB95 race bike
CB92
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JMR Racing CB750A street ET drag bike

Offline Sam Green Racing

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Re: CB750A Street ET bracket drag bike. A year to build it.
« Reply #414 on: February 04, 2011, 01:40:07 PM »
To add to my last post for anyone that don't know, I'm a Sprinter not a Drag Racer.
In the UK we have sprints over the 8th and quarter mile, the winner is the person with the quickest elapsed time. Sorta like qualifying for a drag race but with no eliminations, fastest time wins.

Sam. ;)
C95 sprint bike.
CB95 hybrid race bike
CB95 race bike
CB92
RS 175. sprint/land speed bike
JMR Racing CB750A street ET drag bike

Offline Sam Green Racing

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Re: CB750A Street ET bracket drag bike. A year to build it.
« Reply #415 on: February 04, 2011, 02:10:32 PM »
April 2004, my daily rider. A Honda VFR400RR, NC30. New to me prept track that needed re-doing.

 60ft         ET
2.448.    8.940.
2.254.    8.369.
2.377.    8.668.
2.131.    8.370.
2.110.    8.365.

A steady improvement right through apart from the 3rd pass where I got off the clutch a tad early causeing a slight bog. Bike had a very high 1st gear and had 60bhp at the rear wheel.

Sam. :)
C95 sprint bike.
CB95 hybrid race bike
CB95 race bike
CB92
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JMR Racing CB750A street ET drag bike

Offline Sam Green Racing

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Re: CB750A Street ET bracket drag bike. A year to build it.
« Reply #416 on: February 04, 2011, 02:26:52 PM »
November 2008, Dusterdudes CBR600F3. Piedmont NC, perfect track but both bike and track new to me. Moveing up from my 60bhp to the CBRs 100bhp took quite a bit of getting used to and trying to read the lights at the same time had me all over the place, first run had a missed shift when the air shift malfunctioned.

  RT      60ft     ET
.119.  2.089.  9.128.
.138.  2.096.  8.053.
.131.  2.101.  8.239.
.213.  2.126.  8.374.
.091.  1.996.  8.608.
.025.  2.098.  7.917.   As you can see, I'm going to need that practice, perhaps the auto setup
will come to my rescue.  :D

Sam. ;)
 
C95 sprint bike.
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CB92
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JMR Racing CB750A street ET drag bike

Offline dragracer

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Re: CB750A Street ET bracket drag bike. A year to build it.
« Reply #417 on: February 04, 2011, 02:50:55 PM »
Sam,

Keith and i will surely do what we can to find you a track to test that bike. In fact, i may be in the same boat as you. Trying  now to get a new set up on an old Kaw i acquired at the end of the season so i need seat time as well. We will teach each other over the course of the day- lol.

Macon International Dragway(Twiggs as Keith remembers it) is an 1/8th mile track that was recently redone from end to end. Its all concrete and hooks great. It down I-16 out of Atlanta going towards Savannah near Jeffersonville, Ga. The had a website- see if you can do a search on their schedule.

Offline Sam Green Racing

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Re: CB750A Street ET bracket drag bike. A year to build it.
« Reply #418 on: February 04, 2011, 03:16:47 PM »
Showing test and tune, Saturday 12th March. ;)

Sam. ;)
C95 sprint bike.
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CB92
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JMR Racing CB750A street ET drag bike

Offline Bill/BentON Racing

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Re: CB750A Street ET bracket drag bike. A year to build it.
« Reply #419 on: February 04, 2011, 06:19:22 PM »
Sam,just a couple hours away.Will work for Sunday.Sat.?,Bill     .025 not bad Jr. 8)
BentON Racing Website
OEM Parts | Service | Custom Builds
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Over 35 years of experience working on vintage motorcycles, with a speciality in Honda SOHC/4 with a focus on the CB750 and other models as well from 1966 - 1985.
______________________________________
1993 HRC RS125 | 1984 NS400R | 1974 Honda CB750/836cc (Calendar Girl) | 1972 CB 500/550 Yoshi Kitted 590cc | 1965 Honda CB450 Black Bomber | 1972 Suzuki T350 | 1973 88cc | Z50/Falcons Pit Bike | 1967 CA100| 1974 CB350 (400F motor)...and more.
______________________________________
See our latest build 'Captain Marvel' CLICK HERE

Offline Sam Green Racing

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Re: CB750A Street ET bracket drag bike. A year to build it.
« Reply #420 on: February 05, 2011, 05:56:06 AM »
I slowly and surely got better at guessing. ;)

Sam. ;)
C95 sprint bike.
CB95 hybrid race bike
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JMR Racing CB750A street ET drag bike

Offline dragracer

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Re: CB750A Street ET bracket drag bike. A year to build it.
« Reply #421 on: February 05, 2011, 10:23:59 AM »
Showing test and tune, Saturday 12th March. ;)

Sam. ;)
Great, thats a viable option for a good track. I made a few passes there on my top gas bike this past summer. Had 1.10-1.12, 60 foot times and ran 4.90's so i can tell you it does hook with the best of them.

I sent a cellular phone text message to Angel at Carolina Dragway to find out if you can test during their event. Normally they do allow testing if its a track sponsored event.

One other option is Greer Dragway which is just north of Atlanta Dragway near Greenville, SC. They recently resurfaced the entire track from end to end with new concrete. I usually go there once a year for a Red Cross charity event. Its an 1/8th mile track and IHRA sanctioned. They hold weekly bracket races there.

I've got other places we can try but lets see how the ones i previously mentioned pan out. We will get that bike down the track before Rockingham.

Offline Jim F

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Re: CB750A Street ET bracket drag bike. A year to build it.
« Reply #422 on: February 05, 2011, 01:42:19 PM »
Hey Sam,

The chain guard has been ordered from Tiger Racing
I will be going back to bills on Sunday (Tomorrow)
to do some more fitting on the brake stay arm
I have all the mounting locations done and just had to deal with some
clearance issues.

see you tomorrow Bill about 11

Jim
2002 RC51 1000 (SP2)
1983 GS1100EC Suzuki
2002 998 Dukati (Customers Bike)
1992 KTM500 2 stroke
1975 CB750/836 Honda
1978 GS750/840 Suzuki

Offline Sam Green Racing

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Re: CB750A Street ET bracket drag bike. A year to build it.
« Reply #423 on: February 05, 2011, 01:47:26 PM »
Thanks' Jim, did you tell Guy who the guard was for?

Sam. ;)
C95 sprint bike.
CB95 hybrid race bike
CB95 race bike
CB92
RS 175. sprint/land speed bike
JMR Racing CB750A street ET drag bike

Offline jweeks

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Re: CB750A Street ET bracket drag bike. A year to build it.
« Reply #424 on: February 05, 2011, 02:04:44 PM »
Sam,
     Get the launch with a clutch confusion out of your mind! Not knowing what the bike will do when you let the clutch out can concern anyone. Your reactions that you posted shows just what I've been writing about! Reactions that varied. You got better at it. Probably the same thing will happen with the 'matic. Practice is to get you and Bill comfortable with what the bike is going to do. As you get more comfortable, your reactions get better. Your 60' times show that your clutch slippage wasn't consistent and/or the traction varied. Probably mostly your left hand controlling the clutch lever varied. 1.8 second 60' times aren't radical - you won't point at the sky - you won't break the rear tire loose. You just go forward. Hondamatics just go forward. See the last yellow light, release the rear brake, and go forward. You go wide open on the throttle when the first yellow comes on. The torque converter is the best rev limiter without electronics that you can find. Don't worry about the tach; don't worry about the revs. Tree starts - wide open throttle -last yellow -release brake -start going down the track. Revs slowly climb up into the powerband - the front wheel gets light - starts coming off of the pavement. Get your weight forward to limit the upward motion on the wheelie. In a second or less the front wheel is back on the ground. You can use the rear brake to limit the wheelie, but it will cause variations in et. At the 1/8th mile mark, if we get the gearing right, you do your only shift under full power. (At around 10 grand) Look for the finish line and shut down the throttle just after you cross the line. When you get out of the gas, the bike won't slow down much. The engine won't act as a brake. Use the brakes lightly to slow the bike down to a comfortable mph. Look for the turnoff and judge your speed accordingly. You will probably get back onto the gas to get to the turnoff. Slowly go down the return road, collect your time slip, and return it to your pit area. It will need the 15 minute cool down before running it again. The challenges are one at a time; Stage to the same depth every time. Apply the rear brake to keep the bike from creeping forward; First yellow - full throttle; last yellow - release the brake. Feel the front end getting light -  shift your weight forward to keep the front end down. 1/8th mile mark (line across the track and or cones on the concrete barriers) shift it. Finish line- get off the gas and use a little brake. Just one thing at a time to worry about. The rear brake lever will act as an on/off switch. You don't affect your 60' times by how quickly you release it. About 3 runs down the track and you should be getting comfortable that it will do the same thing every time. After making a couple of "full" passes, you can compare the segment times from each run. That should be when you decide that you've made a really good decision to build a Hondamatic drag bike.
     Bill may have the greater variations. Having a little experience riding wheelies helps with not shifting your weight around side to side and always keeping the front wheel pointed straight forward. Trusting what the bike will do is the biggest help to riding it. The lack of doing much going down the track is a little eerie to me. I'm used to having to look at the tach, hitting my shift points, and staying busy. A Hondamatic is a ride in the country in comparison. You just have to point it straight and hit your one shift point. Moving your head on the top end to look around will slightly slow you down. I find a spot where I can see the other lane and the finish line as it approaches, keeping the helmet in one position. Don't worry about your reaction times! Consistency is what you're trying to do. Yes, you always need to launch in the tire tracks that the cars make. Line up between the car tracks and you may find out what happens when you get antifreeze or tranny fluid under the rear tire. Quick views of the walls usually happen then.
     You'll have a second test and tune time on the Friday before the event. I'll help work with you both on reaction times and bike placement. This is supposed to be fun. Don't fill your heads with doubt or too much information! This will give you a memory that will really last - until the next time that you do it again...

                                                                         JW