Author Topic: Designing a new motor - wood models or CAD?  (Read 10007 times)

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Offline lordmoonpie

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Re: Designing a new motor - wood models or CAD?
« Reply #25 on: December 03, 2009, 01:08:30 AM »
Try rhino3d.

Tryout version at http://www.rhino3d.com/download.htm
Superb - thanks Mark, I'll give it a go tonight! Can't imagine it'll take me long to knock something up like you posted, say,errr, three years?!  ???
1994 Ducati 888 SP5
1951 Ducati 50cc Cucciolo
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Offline Sam Green Racing

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Re: Designing a new motor - wood models or CAD?
« Reply #26 on: December 03, 2009, 02:58:21 AM »
Try rhino3d.

Tryout version at http://www.rhino3d.com/download.htm
Superb - thanks Mark, I'll give it a go tonight! Can't imagine it'll take me long to knock something up like you posted, say,errr, three years?!  ???

You're up early my Lord ;D ;D ;D forgot, nearly time for lunch over there, working nights really dose mess one up :D :D :D :D

Sam. ;)
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Offline lordmoonpie

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Re: Designing a new motor - wood models or CAD?
« Reply #27 on: December 03, 2009, 04:13:14 AM »
Which means you're up late Sam! Been painting another town red have you?
Yes, lunchtime here - can't beat it, pouring with rain, duck in hoisin sauce sarnie and a big cuppa of earl grey...lovely! ;D
1994 Ducati 888 SP5
1951 Ducati 50cc Cucciolo
1981 Yamaha XV750 SE

Offline Sam Green Racing

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Re: Designing a new motor - wood models or CAD?
« Reply #28 on: December 03, 2009, 04:38:03 AM »
Which means you're up late Sam! Been painting another town red have you?
Yes, lunchtime here - can't beat it, pouring with rain, duck in hoisin sauce sarnie and a big cuppa of earl grey...lovely! ;D

Woke at 5.30am Simon, not sure why but it's pi$$ing down here as well :(
We are going sight seeing in Boston today, hope it stops raining.

Sam. ;)
C95 sprint bike.
CB95 hybrid race bike
CB95 race bike
CB92
RS 175. sprint/land speed bike
JMR Racing CB750A street ET drag bike

Offline lordmoonpie

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Re: Designing a new motor - wood models or CAD?
« Reply #29 on: December 03, 2009, 06:40:09 AM »
I don't suppose it'll matter Sam - you'll get as far as the Cheers Bar and stay there the rest of the day! LOL!
1994 Ducati 888 SP5
1951 Ducati 50cc Cucciolo
1981 Yamaha XV750 SE

Offline mlinder

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Re: Designing a new motor - wood models or CAD?
« Reply #30 on: December 03, 2009, 06:59:49 AM »
moonpie, when you start using it, learn to use the command line up on the top for dimensions instead of using the cursor. Getting used to working this way is much better for technical modeling.
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Offline tinyrobot

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Re: Designing a new motor - wood models or CAD?
« Reply #31 on: December 03, 2009, 09:59:19 AM »
Preface: My Rhino skills are rather intermediate at best. 

I would think that Solidworks would be a better solution specifically for the latter processes.  Solidworks has tools for creating molds from existing parts which will be very easy to translate to the sandcast molds later on.  I am not sure if Rhino will do that, I know it did not a few years ago.  Solidworks will also let you create animation of a complete engine assembly and allow for virtual testing.  So you can run flow, stress, heat tests, etc. etc.

Offline lordmoonpie

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Re: Designing a new motor - wood models or CAD?
« Reply #32 on: December 03, 2009, 01:38:31 PM »
I've been sent some info on IronCAD - twice the price of a rhino licence but looks to be the best of everything. Problem is it's too much money for me and looks complex. I need to find a solidworks reseller in the UK I think...
1994 Ducati 888 SP5
1951 Ducati 50cc Cucciolo
1981 Yamaha XV750 SE

Offline turboguzzi

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Re: Designing a new motor - wood models or CAD?
« Reply #33 on: December 04, 2009, 05:54:13 PM »
LMP, leave all the cheap wannabes with their stolen programs alone ,  ;)

Work with a real pro, send me your old moriwaki and i'll desing the motor for you with proper professional software, pro-E or Unigraphics, your choice... 

Shipping within Europe is cheap,

Simple, no? what say you?

TG

 


Offline mlinder

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Re: Designing a new motor - wood models or CAD?
« Reply #34 on: December 04, 2009, 07:36:13 PM »
Um, mine aint stolen... and many, many of the things available for the others are available for Rhino....

They just cost money, and I dun need 'em.
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Offline turboguzzi

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Re: Designing a new motor - wood models or CAD?
« Reply #35 on: December 05, 2009, 01:07:40 AM »
Um, mine aint stolen... and many, many of the things available for the others are available for Rhino....

They just cost money, and I dun need 'em.

hei hei hei, just kiddin' man, there was even a wink attached...

just like I was kidding about him sending his VTR moriwaki over... in my dreams

sometimes tongue in cheek doesnt get through on the net. sorry about that

TG






Offline mlinder

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Re: Designing a new motor - wood models or CAD?
« Reply #36 on: December 05, 2009, 08:40:41 AM »
Um, mine aint stolen... and many, many of the things available for the others are available for Rhino....

They just cost money, and I dun need 'em.

hei hei hei, just kiddin' man, there was even a wink attached...

just like I was kidding about him sending his VTR moriwaki over... in my dreams

sometimes tongue in cheek doesnt get through on the net. sorry about that

TG







:P
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Offline turboguzzi

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Re: Designing a new motor - wood models or CAD?
« Reply #37 on: December 05, 2009, 02:01:17 PM »
good, now that we have this thing settled, may I ask the lord what are you trying to achieve?

I mean, are you shooting for a specific race class?

I am pretty involved with modern bikes too and currently there's a real avalanche of new, very sophisticated V-Twins out there, KTM(super compact), Aprilia (new 1200 engine shown), Moto Morini (a real beast and also designed very smartly), Buell, not to mention Ducati that churns out 150 in street trim, 200+ in race tune.

So as a design and mfg exercise this could be cool, to beat factories that use pro fluiddynamics 3D and 2D calculus/simulation, can test endless combinations of pipes, airboxes, cams, whatever is a tall call.

its sad, but the days when someone like Britten could challenge the big names with a home made effort are gone IMHO. never mind that he had pretty serious resources form his real estate dealings and that many of the people put endless hours into that project without pay (Just happen to know a guy who was involved, he said john was hugely charismatic when having to pull people into the project).

That said, I would definitely go for CAD as with old school tooling, the wood patterns are your only documentation and changes are hard to track or implement. 

I happen to spend a lot of time designing in 3D and I would estimate  quite a few hundred hours just to build a motor to a basic rough level, well above that to start sending out part files to contractors. 

Expect to have a learning curve of about 2-3 months until you can get really prolific/effective with a top shelf 3D CAD package. You should get to a level where its responds like a hand tool and you have no limitations as about how to build parts. The basic stuff is easy but when you get to high level surfacing you might want to look into some training.

Hope it will be an easier starter than the CR750 when its ready  :)

Will be happy to contribute my knowledge.

TG


   


 

Offline lordmoonpie

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Re: Designing a new motor - wood models or CAD?
« Reply #38 on: December 06, 2009, 01:05:43 PM »
Thanks for the advice TG - I'll think about sending you the Moriwaki...

OK now I've thought about it I'll keep it  :D

What do I want to achieve? Well just a major project to tie me up for a few years. It's either this or have a go at my own Honda six and I am such a fan of the Britten I thought I'd have a go at a sort of homage to the great man. I doubt by the time I finished it it would be competitive as you say but that won't stop me having a go.

If I could make something decent wwll the culmination of the dream would be to run it in the BEARs class at Daytona, then, I'd be done with building, restoring maybe even biking itself.

For now though, it's sketches on paper and we'll see if I can get it into CAD at some point.
1994 Ducati 888 SP5
1951 Ducati 50cc Cucciolo
1981 Yamaha XV750 SE