Author Topic: Bill & Melinda Gates; Are they stupid? What am I missing here?  (Read 2276 times)

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Offline Uncle Ernie

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Bill & Melinda Gates; Are they stupid? What am I missing here?
« on: November 29, 2009, 07:27:46 AM »
They're sending all this aid to Africa to save kids. 
Why aren't they sending condoms and birth control information?  Is it some kind of social or religious dictum that these women have babies and then watch them die in a land that is inhospitable to human life?  And these women keep having these babies- One or 2 isn't enough.  What is the thinking here? 

Am I just an unfeeling butt?  What am I missing?
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Offline Sam Green Racing

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Re: Bill & Melinda Gates; Are they stupid? What am I missing here?
« Reply #1 on: November 29, 2009, 07:40:21 AM »
They have birth control info and condoms Paul, guess they are not educated enough to understand, been the case for years, just makes you sorry for them.

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Offline Inigo Montoya

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Re: Bill & Melinda Gates; Are they stupid? What am I missing here?
« Reply #2 on: November 29, 2009, 09:04:29 AM »
Question ernie, how is does this make bill and melinda stupid? Considering that we have governments around the world AND other people doing the exact same thing?

Another thing to consider is it seems that the men in those countries do not want to use rubbers.

Offline BobbyR

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Re: Bill & Melinda Gates; Are they stupid? What am I missing here?
« Reply #3 on: November 29, 2009, 09:23:09 AM »
All of the above. Why are they stupid? They are trying to ease the suffering of those who were born do to their parents ignorance.
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But we were boys, and boys will be boys, and so they will. To us, everything was dangerous, but what of that? Had we not been made to live forever?

Offline 6pkrunner

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Re: Bill & Melinda Gates; Are they stupid? What am I missing here?
« Reply #4 on: November 29, 2009, 11:26:57 AM »
These kids are already on this planet. Bill and Melinda have the money and have proven themselves as terrific philanthropists. While the next generation may or may not be kept in the rubber, these poor souls are already here. Better to save children than to erect structures and buildings named for yourself. Or donate to some politician.

Offline Uncle Ernie

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Re: Bill & Melinda Gates; Are they stupid? What am I missing here?
« Reply #5 on: November 29, 2009, 11:40:13 AM »
I just seems to me that stopping the cycle would be more important.  A woman watches her baby starve to death so she has another and then another?  How does this make sense?  Saving a kid is a nice idea.  So you support the kid until it grows up and then has more kids that are either dying of AIDS or starving to death.   ???

I guess there's a lot in this world that doesn't make any sense.  Nothing new there.  Maybe I need to learn to ignore it. 
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Offline greasy j

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Re: Bill & Melinda Gates; Are they stupid? What am I missing here?
« Reply #6 on: November 29, 2009, 12:01:51 PM »
the african wing of the catholic church is radically conservative and they have a lot to do with it. social stigma also. condoms are badly needed, but also a general attitude that using them is wise. it needs to be cool with the 'angry guy in the sky'. and cool with your neighbors/countrymen.

people make choices based on social pressure more than anything else. and people in survival mode tend to live more 'in the now'. we are used to planning for the future because we have the luxury. so while they may not reason out that it is unwise to have unprotected sex, if they inuitively feel that it is unwise based on social stigma they may make the right choice.

the priests, politicians, etc ,local and abroad, are to blame here and should be ashamed of their actions to date.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2009, 12:10:58 PM by greasy j »

Offline bucky katt

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Re: Bill & Melinda Gates; Are they stupid? What am I missing here?
« Reply #7 on: November 29, 2009, 12:10:20 PM »
what they need to do before worrying about kids in africa is maybe take care of the people here at HOME. lots of people here in the US are in dire need right now.
Of all God's creatures there is only one that cannot be made the slave of the lash. That one is the cat. If man could be crossed with the cat it would improve man, but it would deteriorate the cat.
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Offline greasy j

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Re: Bill & Melinda Gates; Are they stupid? What am I missing here?
« Reply #8 on: November 29, 2009, 12:12:32 PM »
diggin the Ramones avatar bucky

Offline ev0lve

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Re: Bill & Melinda Gates; Are they stupid? What am I missing here?
« Reply #9 on: November 29, 2009, 12:25:42 PM »
the african wing of the catholic church is radically conservative and they have a lot to do with it. social stigma also. condoms are badly needed, but also a general attitude that using them is wise. it needs to be cool with the 'angry guy in the sky'. and cool with your neighbors/countrymen.

people make choices based on social pressure more than anything else. and people in survival mode tend to live more 'in the now'. we are used to planning for the future because we have the luxury. so while they may not reason out that it is unwise to have unprotected sex, if they inuitively feel that it is unwise based on social stigma they may make the right choice.

the priests, politicians, etc ,local and abroad, are to blame here and should be ashamed of their actions to date.

Ding! It's a complicated thing trying to do good.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexico_City_Policy - not condom specific but gives you an idea the kind of restrictions, coercion and penalties NGO have to face.

Critics of the Mexico City Policy refer to it as the "global gag rule", arguing that, in addition to reducing the overall funding provided to particular NGOs, it closes off their access to USAID-supplied condoms and other forms of contraception.[15] This, they argue, negatively impacts the ability of these NGOs to distribute birth control, leading to a downturn in contraceptive use and from there to an increase in the rates of unintended pregnancies and abortion.[15] Critics also argue that the ban promotes restrictions on free speech as well as restrictions on accurate medical information.[16][17][18][19] The European Parliamentary Forum on Population and Development presented a petition to the United States Congress signed by 233 members condemning the policy. The forum has stated that the policy "undermines internationally agreed consensus and goals".[20]

Some more fun with US national politics
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2003/sep/25/aids.usa

I don't envy these folks trolling in the mine field of family planning...

Edit:
Thanks for bringing it up UE. I probably wouldn't have read the B&MG Foundation brief on the subject otherwise.
http://www.gatesfoundation.org/global-health/Documents/family-planning-strategy.pdf

The need to increase contraceptive R & D is a priority for our strategy, but we are increasingly aware that support for young scientists may be insufficient to reinvigorate a field that private companies have left. On September 2, 2009, we opened a Request for Proposal to develop contraceptive technologies as part of our grand Challenges Explorations initiative. This program awards small grants of $100,000 (U.S.) each to support early-stage research projects. Our hope is that we will tap into some new ideas that will support family-planning efforts in the future.

By focusing on increasing women’s access to contraceptives in Sub-Saharan africa and South asia, we strive to maximize our impact on the health of mothers and children. Reaching the millions of women and couples who desire contraceptives requires the dedication of
all our government, donor, private-sector, research, nongovernmental, and community partners. Because our resources are limited in relation to what is needed to address unmet needs globally, we work closely with other foundations and existing and emerging donors to ensure funds are spent well, improve policies, enhance the efficiency of services procurement and delivery, and, ultimately, save and improve lives.

How cool is that?
« Last Edit: November 29, 2009, 12:37:00 PM by Iggy »

Offline BobbyR

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Re: Bill & Melinda Gates; Are they stupid? What am I missing here?
« Reply #10 on: November 29, 2009, 01:06:30 PM »
Africa has been a strife torn area since I was a kid in the 1950's. There are tribal frictions and plain criminal exploitation by all of the superpowers. There is no simple answer. Warren Buffet trusted Gate's judgment, motives, and honesty enough to turn over half his money to the foundation. I am no fan of Gates, but you have to admire good deeds.
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But we were boys, and boys will be boys, and so they will. To us, everything was dangerous, but what of that? Had we not been made to live forever?

Offline oldbiker

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Re: Bill & Melinda Gates; Are they stupid? What am I missing here?
« Reply #11 on: November 30, 2009, 12:35:36 AM »
OK, I'm a cynic. If any government or individual has money to give away, they should give it to the needy in their own country first.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2009, 12:37:22 AM by oldbiker »

Offline Hush

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Re: Bill & Melinda Gates; Are they stupid? What am I missing here?
« Reply #12 on: November 30, 2009, 02:09:20 AM »
I've always said I am only too happy to contribute to the African problem as long as my donation is used to dig wells and throw 40 gallon drums of contaceptive chemicals into it. ;D
It seems that having 12 children is a survival thing, they expect that 8 or 9 will not make it to maturity and be able to help with the family chores so solution...make heaps of kids and allow for natural attrition.
Personally I would prefer that they value maybe 3 kids and see they get the food/medicines etc to make them strong and healthy.
The AIDS problem is also a contributing factor with some areas of the African continent having 80% of their population HIV+.
Guess if we are leaving it up to nature and thereby God, parts of Africa will be unpopulated in the future.
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Offline kghost

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Re: Bill & Melinda Gates; Are they stupid? What am I missing here?
« Reply #14 on: November 30, 2009, 07:22:48 AM »
If he were stupid he wouldn't have all that money to begin with.

Its his money...Last time I checked the Beauty of the USA was he can spend it any way he damn well pleases.
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Offline BeSeeingYou

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Re: Bill & Melinda Gates; Are they stupid? What am I missing here?
« Reply #15 on: November 30, 2009, 08:52:05 AM »
If he were stupid he wouldn't have all that money to begin with.

Its his money...Last time I checked the Beauty of the USA was he can spend it any way he damn well pleases.

Succinct and to the point, kghost.  I guess he sees a greater need in areas of the third world than here at home.  While it is true we have kids with needs here they are not dying by the 100's of thousands from disease and malnutrition.  I saw an interview with Warren Bufffet and Bill and Melinda Gates a while back and came away impressed.  We need more people like them instead of clowns like Donald Trump.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2009, 07:31:01 PM by srust58 »

Offline BobbyR

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Re: Bill & Melinda Gates; Are they stupid? What am I missing here?
« Reply #16 on: November 30, 2009, 09:00:35 AM »
If he were stupid he wouldn't have all that money to begin with.

Its his money...Last time I checked the Beauty of the USA was he can spend it any way he damn well pleases.

+1
Dedicated to Sgt. Howard Bruckner 1950 - 1969. KIA LONG KHANH.

But we were boys, and boys will be boys, and so they will. To us, everything was dangerous, but what of that? Had we not been made to live forever?

Offline Bob Wessner

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Re: Bill & Melinda Gates; Are they stupid? What am I missing here?
« Reply #17 on: November 30, 2009, 09:29:10 AM »
what they need to do before worrying about kids in africa is maybe take care of the people here at HOME. lots of people here in the US are in dire need right now.

They do that as well.

http://www.gatesfoundation.org/united-states/Pages/program-overview.aspx
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Offline ev0lve

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Re: Bill & Melinda Gates; Are they stupid? What am I missing here?
« Reply #18 on: November 30, 2009, 09:37:06 AM »
http://home.windstream.net/bsundquist1/qs.html

Wow. That's a hell of a read - amongst many.

How'd you run up on this guy MRieck? Googling by name he's almost invisible interspersed with the other Bruce Sundquists although I suppose if you were interested in Earth's carrying capacity you'd find him faster.

http://home.windstream.net/bsundquist1/author.html

Anyways, thanks for that link!

Offline Uncle Ernie

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Re: Bill & Melinda Gates; Are they stupid? What am I missing here?
« Reply #19 on: November 30, 2009, 07:31:36 PM »
It's not a matter of what they do with their money- at least for me.  As stated, it's their money and they can do what they want.
I've got a consternation thing going on because birth seems to be the equivalent of murder to me.  Saw a thing on 60 Miutes some time ago where people are sending these nutty-buddy bars over.  They featured a woman whose first 3 kids died of starvation- yet she has 2 more!  What the hell is up with that?   Hello!- people are starving because there's NO FOOD.  People are dying of AIDS because you keep having unprotected sex. 

OK.  Time to put it back in the drawer.  I've spent 2 days trying to do a tune-up and my valve lifter fell out after I got it all buttoned up.  I'm very irritated...
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Offline kghost

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Re: Bill & Melinda Gates; Are they stupid? What am I missing here?
« Reply #20 on: November 30, 2009, 08:27:15 PM »
Statistically College educated people have less children then High school graduates......

Its an education thing......


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Offline Duke McDukiedook

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Re: Bill & Melinda Gates; Are they stupid? What am I missing here?
« Reply #21 on: November 30, 2009, 10:43:00 PM »
Africa = lots of poor guinea pigs for medical testing.

You do the math- and you don't need a high school diploma or GED to figure it out.  ;)
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Offline BobbyR

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Re: Bill & Melinda Gates; Are they stupid? What am I missing here?
« Reply #22 on: December 01, 2009, 12:47:02 PM »
It's not a matter of what they do with their money- at least for me.  As stated, it's their money and they can do what they want.
I've got a consternation thing going on because birth seems to be the equivalent of murder to me.  Saw a thing on 60 Miutes some time ago where people are sending these nutty-buddy bars over.  They featured a woman whose first 3 kids died of starvation- yet she has 2 more!  What the hell is up with that?   Hello!- people are starving because there's NO FOOD.  People are dying of AIDS because you keep having unprotected sex. 

OK.  Time to put it back in the drawer.  I've spent 2 days trying to do a tune-up and my valve lifter fell out after I got it all buttoned up.  I'm very irritated...
One one level I agree with you. Their culture and the culture of the third world seems to include having a bunch of kids. In Colonial America they had lots of kids since a number would normally pass away from things like a simple infection. The first appendectomy was not performed till 1887.
Dedicated to Sgt. Howard Bruckner 1950 - 1969. KIA LONG KHANH.

But we were boys, and boys will be boys, and so they will. To us, everything was dangerous, but what of that? Had we not been made to live forever?

Offline bucky katt

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Re: Bill & Melinda Gates; Are they stupid? What am I missing here?
« Reply #23 on: December 01, 2009, 01:53:01 PM »
what they need to do before worrying about kids in africa is maybe take care of the people here at HOME. lots of people here in the US are in dire need right now.

They do that as well.

http://www.gatesfoundation.org/united-states/Pages/program-overview.aspx



thats cool, i learned something new.
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Offline donny

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Re: Bill & Melinda Gates; Are they stupid? What am I missing here?
« Reply #24 on: December 02, 2009, 05:22:16 PM »
they are just ignorant.  I was riding on a shuttle bus with a peace corp kinda hippie dood who was telling me how wonderful and advanced cultures are in third world countries he had been to.  He was so proud of his work helping them get potable water.   I asked him why after thousands of years they haven't learned not to #$%* upstream and get water downstream. Or crap in a hole in the ground to prevent disease.  He couldn't answer that.
Well, anyway good for him for helping.
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