Topic: Cam and crank engine bonding technique

[paddy paul]

Does any one know the name of the the new technique that the race teams are using on there cam's and crank's, I read about a Suzuki team that was caught using it last year and they were disqualified for the race.. It's some kind of bonding that basically reduces all drag on the moving parts... I just can't remember what the process is called.. Thanks

[Sam Green Racing]

Perhaps some sort of ceramic coating but why would they be banned, need to know more of the story.

Sam.

[paddy paul]

no, it was a some type of a metal application that was actually put on the cam shaft and crank  but in the little write up ( cycle World I believe) they say it makes it super slick so there is hardly any friction at all.... I think it was world super bike but they disqualified the team for the race and took away there point.. I will do some more searching and try to find more info..

[voxonda]

Now that get's me interested!

Rob

[paddy paul]

Nitriding process , Maybe, but I think there is another type of process that they where doing. I will continue searching

[754]

Nitriding has been around for years, more a hardening treatment, than friction reducer..

[paddy paul]

 The treatment is called WPC I could not get the page from the site to copy and past but just google WPC and camshaft a lot of car racers and I guess moto GP, are using this, but the cool thing is it can be used on any engine parts including piston and rings.......www.turbomagazine.com  click on the tech bar, scroll down to the article on WPC

[voxonda]

Well some regulations state that you cannot mess with the internals of the engine, like with the Superstock bikes.

[turboguzzi]

DLC, diamond like carbon

Ducati adits using it on many internals of the D16 motogp tool, but it might be banned indeed form WSBK if the stock model doesnt use it.

VERY expensive

[lordmoonpie]

I've got DLC (Diamond Like Coating over here - diamond is carbon :-)) parts in my 750 engine - only on the gudgeon (wrist) pins for the pistons admittedly but well worth it. The friction reduction is large and the coating so durable that the pins will allegedly last for the lifetime of the engine and multiple piston changes.

Some teams coat their pistons too and even their transmissions to reduce friction. Cost was about £20 per pin to have it done, it's not just a chemical vapour deposition process though because the DLC has "thickness", the pins are machined so that pin plus DLC is the same diameter as a stock pin. You can do it to cams and cranks too if you have mega bucks.

They come black black and shiny and it's hard not to dribble when looking at them LOL! 

[voxonda]

Would it be possible to put it on a crank?

Rob

[MFHP]

Hi,
I'm new here and still soaking up all these loads of information from this forum. This is just great.
And I might just help out in this question.
The coating could be DLC-Coating. It adds a diamond hard micro thin coating to the parts reducing drag significantly.
I stumbled over this just lately in an Automotive Technic mag (German ATZ) in an spezial issue of that mag about the Formula Student.
And Yes it can be put on a crank or any other rotating part like the cam, gears etc.

Greetings,

Mike


750 K77 and 500Four K1 (1975)

[lordmoonpie]

It is probably an expensive options to put it on the crank but it'll work nicely. Have a word with Len at Cat Engineering about it Rob....he did my pins (picture on the ultimate engine thread)

www.cateng.co.uk

[livefast_dieold]

My two cents.

I had studied this process at university. It's an amazing technology indeed, and it's used when moving parts can't be lubricated by oil or grease (e.g. when in vacuum or for food processing machines).If alone, it's not as effective as oil in friction reduction but the combination of oil+DLC is of course better, and the components become practically immortal.

[paddy paul]

www.wpctreatment.com.....    this process is different than the DLC, and they say it's much cheaper, the WPC treatment does not change the dimensions of the part, I'm going to have them shoot  me a quote for a cam and I will post it here for all.......

[754]

If the DLC builds up surface slughtly..
then it could tighten up a worn (but smooth) rare camshaft or crank, I am thinking..

[voxonda]

If the DLC builds up surface slughtly..
then it could tighten up a worn (but smooth) rare camshaft or crank, I am thinking..

+1
My thoughts exactly.

[ColinMc]

Had DLC done to some internals on my Ducati motor...expensive but worth it...i hope lol.