Topic: Anyone know of a cheap fix for cracked valve stem seals??

[manjisann]

So my 94 Pontiac Sunbird has decided to take up smoking as a way of telling me it's time to retire the old girl. With the bluebook value being about a grand and 185k or so on the clock, getting the seals fixed isn't really a very appealing option (it'd be about 1500 ;( ) My tags are up in February.

Heres the question for all you smart mechanics out there (I know a few of you are very good with cars):

Is there anything that I can stick in the oil that will prevent it from squeezing through the cracks so I can pass emissions one last time. I know it's pretty much time to retire the old girl to the junk yard, but if I could get a few more months out of her I'd be able to  save some cash and buy a better (as in not smoking  ) car.

I'm pretty sure I'm out of luck here, but thought I'd just as, as you never know whats out there.

Thanks,

Brandon

[kslrr]

Well, there are some oil treatments that claim that they fix leaks.  What they do is cause the seals to swell up.  This is only temporary because I think it also then causes premature wear.  Also, adding something that increases the viscosity like Lucas Oil Treatment might also be a temporary solution.

[bucky katt]

do it yourself. shouldnt be that hard of a job. i did the ones in my saturn when it had 175k on it

[Sam Green Racing]

do it yourself. shouldnt be that hard of a job. i did the ones in my saturn when it had 175k on it

Get yourself to SLC  UT and give him a hand then.

Sam.

[Sam Green Racing]

Answer....I would but it's to far.

Sam.

[simon#42]

you can get valve spring compressors that just work on the spring . mine is made by snap on but there are probably plenty of other makes , if you use one of these you can change the stem seals without taking the head off saving loads of time and money . if you dont fancy doing it yourself it might be worth asking a local garage about doing it this way
simon

[bucky katt]

Answer....I would but it's to far.

Sam.

if i could afford the gas i'd do it in a heartbeat
i need a break from my family 

[Inigo Montoya]

I have used a product called Restore in the past. It was on a little old nissan stanza and it did help control oil burning and such. A can can be found at walmart(at least here) and will set you back about $6 or so. Put it in fresh oil and see what happens. Might work just long enough.

[MCRider]

you can get valve spring compressors that just work on the spring . mine is made by snap on but there are probably plenty of other makes , if you use one of these you can change the stem seals without taking the head off saving loads of time and money . if you dont fancy doing it yourself it might be worth asking a local garage about doing it this way
simon

Yup "external valve spring compressor". Works real good.

[manjisann]

I have used a product called Restore in the past. It was on a little old nissan stanza and it did help control oil burning and such. A can can be found at walmart(at least here) and will set you back about $6 or so. Put it in fresh oil and see what happens. Might work just long enough.

I'll have to look into that. I only need it to last long enough to pass emissions.

I'd really rather not tear the block apart as it's cold here and my ambition and such goes down in proportion to the temperature 

I was looking on our local want ads and it looks like I can maybe get a beater car for a grand, if it lasts me a year that will be good enough. Decisions Decisions 


Thanks all for the suggestions, And Bucky Thanks for the offer to come do it for me, but I just couldn't concience taking you away from your family 


Brandon

[bucky katt]

I have used a product called Restore in the past. It was on a little old nissan stanza and it did help control oil burning and such. A can can be found at walmart(at least here) and will set you back about $6 or so. Put it in fresh oil and see what happens. Might work just long enough.

I'll have to look into that. I only need it to last long enough to pass emissions.

I'd really rather not tear the block apart as it's cold here and my ambition and such goes down in proportion to the temperature 

I was looking on our local want ads and it looks like I can maybe get a beater car for a grand, if it lasts me a year that will be good enough. Decisions Decisions 


Thanks all for the suggestions, And Bucky Thanks for the offer to come do it for me, but I just couldn't concience taking you away from your family 





but i WANT to be away from my family 

Brandon

[Sam Green Racing]

Well stop making excuses Jeff.

Sam.

[bucky katt]

well in that case, i'm on the way Brandon!

[Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er]

Cracked or hardened? My Acura had the thermostat stick which created a blown head gasket. Mechanic said the seals were fine AFTER THE FACT. Wish I'd pushed him on it before hand. I had to start checking my oil level between changes after 16 years! That sucks. I switched to high mileage oil for $10 more and it cut the consumption. My assumption is hardened seals.

[manjisann]

Jerry, I'm not sure if it's cracked or hardened. I've had this car for about 10 yrs. I've been using valvoline high mileage in it (I'm not trying to start an oil debate, just laying out the facts.) A few months back I come out of work, my wife is in the car idling waiting to pick me up, and there is smoke coming out of the tailpipe. It's not a ton, but it was definately noticeable. The bizarre thing is after a while it stops smoking so much at idle, so I started thinking that whatever the bugger was wrong had somehow magically fixed itself. I took it to the IM place (thats all they do, so I can't imagine they'll lie to me) and they say that when they stuck her on the Dyno and gassed it, the whole bay was smoked out.

I know that a sticky valve will go away once it's warmed up, but the car kinda smokes all the time, which is what leads me to believe it's cracked valve seals. At this point I really don't have much to lose, so I'll probably try some of the Restore stuff and see if that helps. If anyone else has any reasonable suggestions, I'm interested.

Thanks,

Brandon

[cb650]

If the rest of the car is decent and you like it just do it.   I pulled the head on a old escort just to change a valve.  Valve was $10  and head gasket was 25 or so.  Took time and cussing but drove the piss out of it for a couple years. 

[754]

I think they should mention you need "the rope trick" or air to hold the valve closed, while performing this task.

 You know I met some cool old Mormon dudes with a vintage Sinclair station, still working near "The Temple" Both guys were around 65 or 70 and had both worked there over 30 years each.. nice guys.. Bet they could do that job & read a newspaper at the same time.

 One of their names was GAYLE, I think..
 We had to pretend we were maybe Mormon and cleaned up our language while we were there, they let us take photographs...station has been there since the 20, pic of the original station inside.. its still there, they just added a few bays.. orig part about 20x20ft..

 Oldest original station I have seen downtown in a  very long time..

[MCRider]

I think they should mention you need "the rope trick" or air to hold the valve closed, while performing this task.

 SNIP

Assuming you're talking about removing the springs without pulling the head? I did it on my CB750 by setting the pistons at TDC. The valve only dropped a fraction. Piece of cake.

[ColinMc]

I think you'd be surprised what the Lucas oil additive can do...despite all the bad info about foaming and all that crap. It did wonders in my Chevy Lumina right up until the day it was in a demolition derby lol. I had the same problem you are describing. I just substituted a quart of lucas each oil change and it wasn't perfect but it wasn't a mosquito smoker anymore.

[simon#42]

I think they should mention you need "the rope trick" or air to hold the valve closed, while performing this task.

 SNIP

Assuming you're talking about removing the springs without pulling the head? I did it on my CB750 by setting the pistons at TDC. The valve only dropped a fraction. Piece of cake.

yes thats what i do , get the piston to dead top center and the valve wont drop far

[manjisann]

Colin and all those with the rope trick, are you saying that the valve stem seals can be changed without removing the head, just the cam and the springs? I'm just wondering. Seeing as how it won't pass emissions anyhow, I'm not sure I'd be out a whole ton by trying that. I'm planning on selling it to a junk yard if I can't figure out a way to finesse her past emissions.

Now if I could just warm up the weather, 20F is just too cold to work up much ambition.

Brandon

[MCRider]

Colin and all those with the rope trick, are you saying that the valve stem seals can be changed without removing the head, just the cam and the springs? I'm just wondering. Seeing as how it won't pass emissions anyhow, I'm not sure I'd be out a whole ton by trying that. I'm planning on selling it to a junk yard if I can't figure out a way to finesse her past emissions.

Now if I could just warm up the weather, 20F is just too cold to work up much ambition.

Brandon

That is correcto mundo. The stem seals are on the top side of the head. If you can get the cam off and the springs, with the external compressor, you should be able to replace the stem seals no problem.

I know it can be done on a CB750 piece of cake. No first hand experience witha Saturn, but if its a SOHC with rocker arms....

[MCRider]

Here's a link to what the tool is and looks like. Scroll down to KD2078

http://www.mytoolstore.com/kd/kdengi13.html

[manjisann]

Neat tool MCRider!! Once I've pulled the seal, how do I get the new one in? All the seal drivers I've seen were rods, but if valve is still there, I can't see how that would be done.

Thanks,

Brandon

[bucky katt]

the new seal should just slide right down over the valve, in some vehicles theres a small cut into the guide that the seal kind of clips into. make sure before putting the new seal in that there are no burrs that might damage the new seal going on.

[simon#42]

Neat tool MCRider!! Once I've pulled the seal, how do I get the new one in? All the seal drivers I've seen were rods, but if valve is still there, I can't see how that would be done.

Thanks,

Brandon

just use a piece of tube , make sure it fits on the outside of the seal , there will usually be a small lip at the bottom that you can push against . a sharp tap with a hammer will seat it . usually the hard part is removing the old seals which have gone hard , i have a screwdriver with the tip bent at 90 degrees which i use to prise them off with

[MCRider]

Neat tool MCRider!! Once I've pulled the seal, how do I get the new one in? All the seal drivers I've seen were rods, but if valve is still there, I can't see how that would be done.

Thanks,

Brandon

just use a piece of tube , make sure it fits on the outside of the seal , there will usually be a small lip at the bottom that you can push against . a sharp tap with a hammer will seat it . usually the hard part is removing the old seals which have gone hard , i have a screwdriver with the tip bent at 90 degrees which i use to prise them off with

Yup that'sll work. My only unknown is the design of your seal. is it like our bikes, or something different. Automotive seals can be different.

But anyway, it still should be above the head and accessible with the spring off.

[754]

2 more things;
 I think on some motors, you may be able to get the rockers out, one at a time, leaving cam & timing intact.. even faster..

 As far as I know seal kits often come with a plastic sleeve, that MUST be put over the valve stem to PROTECT the seal. Failure to do so will destroy the seal before you get to use it..

[manjisann]

Sweet guys, I'll check the manual and see how feasible this is. I wouldn't do it if I had to pull the head, but if it's doable with only pulling the cam cover off, i've been this deep in there.

I'll let you guys know how it goes if I decide to try this. won't be till at least January, that way if I foul it up I'll have the money to buy the replacement beater

Brandon

[754]

Check out that Sinclair station, cool place..just West or north of the Temple 4 -6 blocks..

[MCRider]

Sweet guys, I'll check the manual and see how feasible this is. I wouldn't do it if I had to pull the head, but if it's doable with only pulling the cam cover off, i've been this deep in there.

I'll let you guys know how it goes if I decide to try this. won't be till at least January, that way if I foul it up I'll have the money to buy the replacement beater

Brandon

I was going to say...

Make sure you are in a situation where you have alternatives. THis is surgery and there may be complications...

But sounds like you're aware of that.