Topic: Building an endurance engine

[livefast_dieold]

Ok, BIG problem. This afternoon I went installing the tyres, but the guy at the shop wasn't able to install the 130 mm tyre I ordered. Turns out the rear rim (which is an aluminium cast, made in the '70 by OZ) is for a 500 four, not 750.
Now I put on a 3.50 tyre (110 mm), the original size for a 500, how about racing with it? Or is it too dangerous?

Not a real problem, certainly not in Adria which is quite a slow track. Actually it might good and help make the bike more flickable, seriously.

Wouldnt worry too much.

Regardless, next time remember that before ordering tires, you should check your rim widths 

Last thing, (but might be too late) the Avon Racing AM23 130/650-18 "cantilever" is designed to work with narrow rims, even 2.15 accoridng to the specs. You might be in luck and find one to fit in Adria. It's expensive but it might be your only solution for a good rear tire on your narrow rim.

http://www.avonracing.com/club_page.aspx   

I know, but the guy that sold me the rims is a "good old trusted" friend who said they was for a 750 and I just didn't check. He's no more a "trusted" friend. Thanks for the advice, but I chose Heidenau to avoid the huge expense for the Avon.

Thanks for the kind words guys, I can go to bed and get rested for tomorrow, a lot to work still to do!

[livefast_dieold]

Sadly I have to renounce to the race. We had serious problem with the brakes due to a stupid mistake I made during designing the mounts (I took the measure with old pads on, with new one the Honda disk won't fit). We work very hard (it's 4:43 am here) but at the end we had to give up for this time...

[CBJoe]

   Sorry to hear about that....  But it's better to be ready than to perform half complete.....

Good luck with the bike...

Regards, Joe

[turboguzzi]

Riccardo came to say hello at Adria, was nice to see a member's face 1-on-1 for the first time after more than 3 years in SOHC4... even if it'd been even nicer if he had the bike ready.

There's always next time Ric 

Report on the the race with pixies will follow

TG

[livefast_dieold]

Riccardo came to say hello at Adria, was nice to see a member's face 1-on-1 for the first time after more than 3 years in SOHC4... even if it'd been even nicer if he had the bike ready.

There's always next time Ric 

Report on the the race with pixies will follow

TG

Nice to meet you! How was your race?

[livefast_dieold]

Hi everyone. Here's a pictures of me and the complete bike, taken at 4 a.m. the day of the Adria's race. Here it's the exact moments when we realized that the brakes didn't work, so no Adria race...

Now things are quite changed: no more alloy wheels but spokes wheels, original brake calipers and Avon tyres. I've fired up the engine three times, it runs very smooth and it revs really fast, even if I didn't do the setup yet (and I hope it wouldn't be too difficult!!!). Only one thing is keeping me away from a night without mechanical nightmares: there are 4 liters of oil in there (consider the oil radiator and about 2.20 meters of oil lines) and still the oil level in the oil tank barely touches the indicator. What that could be? I've checked the lines to and from the radiator and they aren't struck anywhere. What that can be? Bad oil pump? Simply add more oil?

[Sam Green Racing]

Ric, dose the oil level come up when the motor is running?
Sometimes the one way valve leaks and allows the oil to seep into the sump.
Bike looks great.

Sam.

[turboguzzi]

Ric, dose the oil level come up when the motor is running?
Sometimes the one way valve leaks and allows the oil to seep into the sump.
Bike looks great.

Sam.

In a sohc? reminds me of my brit bikes 

miss my G80S and model 18.....

[livefast_dieold]

Ric, dose the oil level come up when the motor is running?
Sometimes the one way valve leaks and allows the oil to seep into the sump.
Bike looks great.

Sam.

yep, thank you Sam, you were right.
would this cause some damage while running after a proper warm up?

[Sam Green Racing]

Ric, it dose make me wonder about some of the oil leak issues some people have with the 750s.
I had read about leak back problems on here and on thinking back to when we were running the CR (in avatar) my rider would check the oil level when cold and more often than not, need to top it up only to find out that when warmed up, the level would be to high.
If we had meetings a week apart, the level would be OK, If maybe 4 to 6 weeks apart, the problem would be there again.
This might be happening to people that use them as their daily ride, they for some reason (weather) might not ride for a few weeks and when ready to ride again, find their oil low. They top it up and ride it daily again with to much oil and the pressure build up might cause the oil leaks associated with this motor.
I'm not that clued up on this motor as my current 750 is a wet sumped automatic, perhaps a more knowledgeable person might chip in.

Sam.

[Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er]

Have you considered checking/replacing the oil leak stopper set up in the oil pump? This is what Sam is referring to as a one way valve I believe?? Weak spring, valve or seal maybe that may allow the oil to drain down from the oil tank when the bike is sitting.

David Silver Spares has the spring available and can get the valve from Honda. No luck on the seal. 

[bwaller]

Last time I checked Jerry that rubber stopper seal was N/A.

[paulages]

Riccardo came to say hello at Adria, was nice to see a member's face 1-on-1 for the first time after more than 3 years in SOHC4... even if it'd been even nicer if he had the bike ready.

There's always next time Ric  

Report on the the race with pixies will follow

TG

What... I don't count, Yossef?  

[Howell]

Have you considered checking/replacing the oil leak stopper set up in the oil pump? This is what Sam is referring to as a one way valve I believe?? Weak spring, valve or seal maybe that may allow the oil to drain down from the oil tank when the bike is sitting.

David Silver Spares has the spring available and can get the valve from Honda. No luck on the seal. 

Indeed it's the one way valve , my K2 and F2 has the same .
But that's no problem when the bike is running the oil in the tank is on level.

[voxonda]

Ric, it dose make me wonder about some of the oil leak issues some people have with the 750s.
I had read about leak back problems on here and on thinking back to when we were running the CR (in avatar) my rider would check the oil level when cold and more often than not, need to top it up only to find out that when warmed up, the level would be to high.
If we had meetings a week apart, the level would be OK, If maybe 4 to 6 weeks apart, the problem would be there again.
This might be happening to people that use them as their daily ride, they for some reason (weather) might not ride for a few weeks and when ready to ride again, find their oil low. They top it up and ride it daily again with to much oil and the pressure build up might cause the oil leaks associated with this motor.
I'm not that clued up on this motor as my current 750 is a wet sumped automatic, perhaps a more knowledgeable person might chip in.

Sam.

The amount of oil will not affect the oilpressure, this is purely done by the oilpump. Just make sure there is a sufficient amount of oil.

Rob

[livefast_dieold]

Ric, it dose make me wonder about some of the oil leak issues some people have with the 750s.
I had read about leak back problems on here and on thinking back to when we were running the CR (in avatar) my rider would check the oil level when cold and more often than not, need to top it up only to find out that when warmed up, the level would be to high.
If we had meetings a week apart, the level would be OK, If maybe 4 to 6 weeks apart, the problem would be there again.
This might be happening to people that use them as their daily ride, they for some reason (weather) might not ride for a few weeks and when ready to ride again, find their oil low. They top it up and ride it daily again with to much oil and the pressure build up might cause the oil leaks associated with this motor.
I'm not that clued up on this motor as my current 750 is a wet sumped automatic, perhaps a more knowledgeable person might chip in.

Sam.

The amount of oil will not affect the oilpressure, this is purely done by the oilpump. Just make sure there is a sufficient amount of oil.

Rob

not so sure about, what about the pumping effect from the pistons movements?

[MCRider]

Ric, it dose make me wonder about some of the oil leak issues some people have with the 750s.
I had read about leak back problems on here and on thinking back to when we were running the CR (in avatar) my rider would check the oil level when cold and more often than not, need to top it up only to find out that when warmed up, the level would be to high.
If we had meetings a week apart, the level would be OK, If maybe 4 to 6 weeks apart, the problem would be there again.
This might be happening to people that use them as their daily ride, they for some reason (weather) might not ride for a few weeks and when ready to ride again, find their oil low. They top it up and ride it daily again with to much oil and the pressure build up might cause the oil leaks associated with this motor.
I'm not that clued up on this motor as my current 750 is a wet sumped automatic, perhaps a more knowledgeable person might chip in.

Sam.

The amount of oil will not affect the oilpressure, this is purely done by the oilpump. Just make sure there is a sufficient amount of oil.

Rob

not so sure about, what about the pumping effect from the pistons movements?

Nope, Rob still correct. The pumping action of the pistos will do nothing to oil pressure. That area is the cavity of the engine which is essentially open to the atmosphere thru various breathers. With 2 going up offsetting 2 going down there is only the slightest bellows effect for the air, nothing for the oil.

[Sam Green Racing]

They top it up and ride it daily again with to much oil and the pressure build up might cause the oil leaks associated with this motor.


Sam.

Come on guys, read what I said, I said pressure not oil pressure.
We know that a pump will pump X amount of oil at a given engine RPM and the pumping action of the pistons rising and falling is self canceling.
If over filling a motor with oil dosen't matter, please tell me why engine manufacturers put a upper limit as well as a lower limit on the dip stick. Or is it me that's a dipstick, check it out here. http://www.thefreedictionary.com/dipstick

Sam.

[voxonda]

Hey Sam,

One big prob with dry sump engines, so with the seperate oiltank is lack of oil for the pump, hence the minimum amount. There is no max as long as you have a oiltank/system large enough. But then there is the issue of weight....bla,bla,bla.
My first homebuild oiltank carried more oil than the oem one, but it was as wide as the frame is. On long lefthanders taken at considerable speed and cranked over, there was no sufficient oilfeed to the pump, so trouble on the way. Luckily I always mount a pressure gauge on these engines and changed the oiltank design.
Have, personally, never had issues with pressure build up in the engine, but always made sure that are enough breathers. If on a oem engine the gearbox breather and the breather on the valvecover are not blocked there should not be a problem. Maybe on the 'older' K0-K2 with the small breather tube at the gearbox there could be a issue, hence the larger tubes on the later models.

Rob

[turboguzzi]

Riccardo came to say hello at Adria, was nice to see a member's face 1-on-1 for the first time after more than 3 years in SOHC4... even if it'd been even nicer if he had the bike ready.

There's always next time Ric  

Report on the the race with pixies will follow

TG

What... I don't count, Yossef?  

Of course you dont count, who do you think you are?

ooops.... err.. yes, but it was dark and full of cigarettes smoke... couldnt see much

Coming back this summer?

TG

[livefast_dieold]

Ric, it dose make me wonder about some of the oil leak issues some people have with the 750s.
I had read about leak back problems on here and on thinking back to when we were running the CR (in avatar) my rider would check the oil level when cold and more often than not, need to top it up only to find out that when warmed up, the level would be to high.
If we had meetings a week apart, the level would be OK, If maybe 4 to 6 weeks apart, the problem would be there again.
This might be happening to people that use them as their daily ride, they for some reason (weather) might not ride for a few weeks and when ready to ride again, find their oil low. They top it up and ride it daily again with to much oil and the pressure build up might cause the oil leaks associated with this motor.
I'm not that clued up on this motor as my current 750 is a wet sumped automatic, perhaps a more knowledgeable person might chip in.

Sam.

The amount of oil will not affect the oilpressure, this is purely done by the oilpump. Just make sure there is a sufficient amount of oil.

Rob

not so sure about, what about the pumping effect from the pistons movements?

Nope, Rob still correct. The pumping action of the pistos will do nothing to oil pressure. That area is the cavity of the engine which is essentially open to the atmosphere thru various breathers. With 2 going up offsetting 2 going down there is only the slightest bellows effect for the air, nothing for the oil.

Ok, right, but what if we start to consider the pressure waves fronts from the pistons and they instant and local effects on air and oil inside the crankcase?

Just to do some brainstorming...

[Sam Green Racing]

I thought you were the university student, we're just a load of thickies I'm a dipstick.

Sam.

[paulages]

Riccardo came to say hello at Adria, was nice to see a member's face 1-on-1 for the first time after more than 3 years in SOHC4... even if it'd been even nicer if he had the bike ready.

There's always next time Ric  

Report on the the race with pixies will follow

TG

What... I don't count, Yossef?  

Of course you dont count, who do you think you are?

ooops.... err.. yes, but it was dark and full of cigarettes smoke... couldnt see much

Coming back this summer?

TG

Just teasing TG. I wish I was coming back this summer.. this working a regular job thing sucks.. I want to do the free beer/food/bed all for making some noise "job." Might come back this fall, but we also want to do SE asia/oz or south america.

[livefast_dieold]

Hi everyone. This weekend is a racing weekend! Bike seems fine, today I went testing the engine, I told the guy not to go over 7000 rpm and the results was 60 hp at the rear wheel (@7000 rpm, of course). Carburation is still not perfect, need bigger main jet size (running on 140 now) but what I really need are a set of CR  (the girl is hungry). Tomorrow we'll fix the last things, hope everything will work this time!

[voxonda]

At least it is looking good! Keep up the spirit!
Good luck this weekend.

Ciao, Rob