Topic: the coolest brakes I've ever seen

[Industrial Cafe]

$127,000 for a prototype!?

[kslrr]

Ok, why?  What does this design improve?

[Ryan 550k]

WTF???

[mec]

Ok, why?  What does this design improve?

this design minimizes the gyroscopic effects of the front wheel, but has not succeeded due to high manufacturing costs and heavy weigth.

mec

[Industrial Cafe]

I wonder why the prototype is so expensive? It's not like he's producing some amazing revolutionary new technology. I'm sure there's a company that already makes a planetary gear set that is splined to fit into a modified wheel.    
he's probably machining a rim, rotor, and everything that goes inside from billets for that price.
...and he already did it! its on the bike! there's your prototype.  copy that.

what I think he's trying to do is make it like any other company- expensive and not easily reproduced with what you have lying around the shop.


old tech

[Industrial Cafe]

I wonder why he didn't ride it through town to get to the place where the video was shot?
afraid of the setup failing?

[CycleRanger]

old tech

I think that just blew my mind.

[mystic_1]

Ok, why?  What does this design improve?

+1



You still have lots of rotating parts so I don't buy the "minimizes gyroscopic effect" explanation.  I could see this design helping with gyroscopic precession, but that's a pretty insignificant force in these systems.

mystic_1

[voxonda]

WTF?? This is as old as the road to Rome!!!! Back in the late '70 beginning '80's even Suzuki GP had it on trail, and due to the excess weight skipped it.

[Industrial Cafe]

huh.  He's no trailblazer.

[kslrr]

Not only is their more weight, there's more friction due to the mess of gears. 

Could you imagine doing the TON when one of those Planetary gears shatters?

[Industrial Cafe]

but that kind of action goes on in your automatic tranny every day.

[HavocTurbo]

but that kind of action goes on in your automatic tranny every day.

but if your auto tranny breaks you can still stop hard.

On a bike if that goes you are limited to the back brake.... which is prone to lock up in emergency situations.

So in your case..... stopping really fast to gawk at a beach babe.

[Industrial Cafe]

ha! yeah... it is different, but i still think it's reliable.

 even if it's heavier, heats up the rotor faster, and wastes more pads- you gotta admit, it looks pretty cool in action.

[rbmgf7]

Ok, why?  What does this design improve?

this design minimizes the gyroscopic effects of the front wheel, but has not succeeded due to high manufacturing costs and heavy weigth.

mec

i could be wrong but isn't the physics of the gyroscopic effect what keeps the bike upright while riding? think like spinning a top. now if you built a top within a top to spin in the opposite direction, the torques would cancel each other causing the top to not stay upright? it would seem the design is only for looks and in actuality is being counterproductive for a motorcycle...? still pretty cool.

[edbikerii]

I can only imagine that reducing the gyroscopic effect might help one turn in faster.

However, all the extra weight spinning forward would probably cancel the relatively low weight of the rotor spinning backward.  The wheel, tire and hub have significantly more mass than the rotor, so the gyroscope effect is still positive, but perhaps not as strong.

Seems like even if it worked, it would just make the bike less stable at speed, and maybe even more prone to tankslappers.

Interesting idea though.  I'd love to ride it and see if my theory is correct in practice.

[Industrial Cafe]

http://www.reverserotatingrotors.com/
interesting read.

[edbikerii]

Yes, very interesting.

As I expected, he claims that turn-in is easier at high speeds, but surprisingly, he claims that tankslappers are eliminated by RRR.  I'm not sure I buy the explanation, but some racetrack time would prove/disprove the theory rapidly.

If this theory and his claims are true, then why don't any race teams use this technology?  Manufacturing costs are basically irrelevant for factory teams.  If it proved successful in racing, economies of scale would enable it to be fitted to street bikes promptly to offset the development costs.

Eliminating tankslappers and high-sides would save the manufacturers untold millions in product liability lawsuits.

So why doesn't anyone use it?  Especially considering that it has been tried already, even 40 years ago, apparently.

http://www.reverserotatingrotors.com/
interesting read.

[Retro Rocket]

The natural gyroscopic forces of a standard set up bike is constantly trying to twist the front of the bike one way or the other, by using the counter rotating rotors this helps to even the forces out making it more stable and easier to turn into corners, because it needs less input, i see no reason it would create tank slappers, quite the opposite..

Mick

[mystic_1]

The natural gyroscopic forces of a standard set up bike is constantly trying to twist the front of the bike one way or the other, by using the counter rotating rotors this helps to even the forces out making it more stable and easier to turn into corners, because it needs less input, i see no reason it would create tank slappers, quite the opposite..

Mick

Eeehhhh, no not quite.  An ideal gyroscope is stable until you apply a force from outside, then instead of moving in the direction of the applied force, it'll move off at an angle that's dependent on mass, rotational speed, etc.

Having two counter-rotating gyroscopes helps to balance out the twisting, but gyroscopic stability is still present.

I don't have a big enough cerebellum to know how all the forces play out, but consider some of the real-world machines which consist of counter-rotating gyroscopes: 







mystic_1

[Industrial Cafe]

i see no reason it would create tank slappers, quite the opposite..

Mick

that's what the link I posted says too.

[Retro Rocket]

The natural gyroscopic forces of a standard set up bike is constantly trying to twist the front of the bike one way or the other, by using the counter rotating rotors this helps to even the forces out making it more stable and easier to turn into corners, because it needs less input, i see no reason it would create tank slappers, quite the opposite..

Mick

Eeehhhh, no not quite.  An ideal gyroscope is stable until you apply a force from outside, then instead of moving in the direction of the applied force, it'll move off at an angle that's dependent on mass, rotational speed, etc.

Having two counter-rotating gyroscopes helps to balance out the twisting, but gyroscopic stability is still present.

I don't have a big enough cerebellum to know how all the forces play out, but consider some of the real-world machines which consist of counter-rotating gyroscopes: 







mystic_1

The problem with that comparison is that those rotors are separate and while working together are independent and in no way similar too having 2 rotors on the one axle or shaft
2 completely different designs for 2 different purposes.. If you wish to sample the twisting effect of a wheel just take a bicycle wheel by the axle in both hands, get someone to spin it as fast as they can, now let go of one side of the axle, the gyroscopic forces keep it upright and also make it twist making it hard to hold...try it, it is simple to do and explains a lot.  Apparently helicopters are very similar, always trying to twist sideways needing more yaw control to keep them straight.



Mick

[mystic_1]

The problem with that comparison is that those rotors are separate and while working together are independent and in no way similar too having 2 rotors on the one axle or shaft

Look closer at the third pic

mystic_1

[Retro Rocket]

The problem with that comparison is that those rotors are separate and while working together are independent and in no way similar too having 2 rotors on the one axle or shaft

Look closer at the third pic

mystic_1

In the 3rd pic the rotors are still only fixed at one end unlike a bike wheel that is fixed at both ends.....

Mick

[mystic_1]

That makes no difference whatsoever to a gyroscope

mystic_1