Topic: Fork Brace W/ Gaiters?

[Ecosse]

I've seen them for the 650 Yamaha and I thought once on a CB750. Does anyone know where to find these? For those of us who want to keep the gaiters, and fender, but want a stiffer front end I wonder what options there are. Maybe replacing the OEM with one of better material?

Show me your solutions!

[somesuch]

The brace you have pictured has to have an absolutely perfect fit so that it does not put *any* load on the forks...something very difficult to achieve. If even slightly off, it increases "stiction" of an already sticky fork. A local guy here makes a nice brace for the XS11/XS750/XS650 crowd which retains the use of wipers  (http://www.tkat.com/forkbrace.html). I have been trying to get him to make one for the CB750 but he needs a minimum before he will do it. I have five CB750 so I'll take five braces, anyone interested? I think we only need five more. With his brace gator use will be retained.

--Nick

[Toxic]

What about this type of brace?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/CHROME-FORK-35mm-TUBE-BRACE-FOR-HONDA-CB750-CHOPPER_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem3ca2be7e6bQQitemZ260428430955QQptZMotorcyclesQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

I have one on my CB and the fit is great.  Only paid $10 for a poorly chromed one.

I hade the same type on my Z1 and it made a difference.

[somesuch]

It clamps on the fork tubes above the uppermost "bump" point.....and that limits it's usefulness. On a chopper it could work OK..depending.

You really need something to clamp on top of the slider.

--Nick

[Ecosse]

The brace you have pictured has to have an absolutely perfect fit so that it does not put *any* load on the forks...something very difficult to achieve. If even slightly off, it increases "stiction" of an already sticky fork. A local guy here makes a nice brace for the XS11/XS750/XS650 crowd which retains the use of wipers  (http://www.tkat.com/forkbrace.html). I have been trying to get him to make one for the CB750 but he needs a minimum before he will do it. I have five CB750 so I'll take five braces, anyone interested? I think we only need five more. With his brace gator use will be retained.

--Nick

good point somesuchnick and that's a good reason not to try and "adapt" one from another application. would the 550 and 750 share the same dimensions?

if i were to fit one i would want to retain the gaiters and the common style of brace seems to prevent that.

and i wonder how effective strengthening the stock one would be.

[somesuch]

good point somesuchnick and that's a good reason not to try and "adapt" one from another application. would the 550 and 750 share the same dimensions?

if i were to fit one i would want to retain the gaiters and the common style of brace seems to prevent that.

and i wonder how effective strengthening the stock one would be.

I had a pair of sliders from a 550 and they were the same as 750....so
i assume the brace would fit both.

I have spend some time doing it and it is just not a very good way to go about it. Many things are problematic: fender mounting bolt size, needs to be perfectly fitted (every time!), limited space inside especially when going double disk, etc. It just is not a "clean engineering" in my opinion.


--Nick

[HondaMan]

I've seen them for the 650 Yamaha and I thought once on a CB750. Does anyone know where to find these? For those of us who want to keep the gaiters, and fender, but want a stiffer front end I wonder what options there are. Maybe replacing the OEM with one of better material?

Show me your solutions!

Those first appeared in the 1970s, for the CB750 and BMW R65-75/5 series. They work well, if odd-looking. The holes for the bolts are large enough to allow alignment without stiction, and roadracers often sported them to good use.

I have another design, specifically for use with gaiters (because I like 'em) that has been in the works for a while, stalled until I get this book wrapped up (boy, it's a lot of work to get it to press!). It's similar to a design that's been around for a while for the "F" and K7/8 gaiterless version front ends, but provides for the gaiters to stay in place. It clamps to the gaiter groove, must be shimmed to the stictionless point, so I'm working on making it shimless with an adjuster instead. The gaiter then sits on top, compressed 1/2" over stock.

It will appear on my website, when I get that on line, after this book thingie... 

[somesuch]

Those first appeared in the 1970s, for the CB750 and BMW R65-75/5 series. They work well, if odd-looking. The holes for the bolts are large enough to allow alignment without stiction, and roadracers often sported them to good use.

I have another design, specifically for use with gaiters (because I like 'em) that has been in the works for a while, stalled until I get this book wrapped up (boy, it's a lot of work to get it to press!). It's similar to a design that's been around for a while for the "F" and K7/8 gaiterless version front ends, but provides for the gaiters to stay in place. It clamps to the gaiter groove, must be shimmed to the stictionless point, so I'm working on making it shimless with an adjuster instead. The gaiter then sits on top, compressed 1/2" over stock.

It will appear on my website, when I get that on line, after this book thingie... 

I think it was a CC Products product . I was using those braces on CB900Fs back then. I forget the numbers now, but it seems that I would always have at least a few extra mm of stiction after the fork brace install no matter what I did!  It is the misalignment in width that was a pain. I would either shim with different thickness washers, or put the brace in a vise and squeeze.....all that extra BS in addition to the normal front end alignment procedure of  loosen/bounce/tighten routine, add those small bolts now loaded by the brace in shear, throw in constant tire changes, and you can see why I quickly grew tired of that brace.

--Nick

[ken736cc]

Here it is. The left and right mounts are different to fit the disc brake. Not for double disc.

[754]

I offered several times on here to show how to make a fork brace that fits 73 and up, 750s.

 Most of it, if not all could be made, at home with a drill press, and hand tools. A couple of the pieces are easier to trim on a lathe, but could be done by hand if carefull. I would run some of the turned parts for reasonable, IF there was interest.

 I posted some of the info, and offered to help out.. No one was interested enough to try making one... It wont work with stock fender, but if a a STIFFER fork is the goal, custom mounting a fender yourself, to acomplish better handling may be worth it.

 So good, luck, even if you try to help people make their own, for between 12-60 bux, its just  too daunting for them... The 60 bux figure is with paying to get some machining done..

[Ecosse]

hm, if you get that off the ground i'll be very interested!

having said that i'm curious about 754's design. maybe posting an image of it would help pique interest, picture worth a thousand words and all that.

i'd prefer to keep the stock fender but if the stocker could be modified to work with 754's that's a plus. the looks of the style i posted has grown on me and i've seen period pix of the bimmers with these braces. still, they stand out as something not factory.

[754]

We did post a pic of it, its on my bike in the Bonneville 2007 thread we posted on this section, back then.. should be in the archives..
 Seeing as my economic universe, is looking real bad right now... I may as well make some and offer them for sale, I could certainly use the income..

 So, I will look at doing that, but they will not be as cheap as making your own..

[HondaMan]

We did post a pic of it, its on my bike in the Bonneville 2007 thread we posted on this section, back then.. should be in the archives..
 Seeing as my economic universe, is looking real bad right now... I may as well make some and offer them for sale, I could certainly use the income..

 So, I will look at doing that, but they will not be as cheap as making your own..

Was it your design that had the outside clamps on the center bar?

[754]

Alum plate on each side with 2 bars, connecting the plates, often seen on drag bikes

[turboguzzi]

here's your guy

http://www.tnk.it/en/prodotti7.php?mp=TNK%20GROUP%20SRL&cat=STABILIZER&artd=STABILIZER&mm=HONDA

[Shenanigans]

here's your guy

http://www.tnk.it/en/prodotti7.php?mp=TNK%20GROUP%20SRL&cat=STABILIZER&artd=STABILIZER&mm=HONDA

Those look like the same braces from Fast from the Past. Anyone know if these will clear a stock fender. (At least on the 500-550s?)

[turboguzzi]

here's your guy

http://www.tnk.it/en/prodotti7.php?mp=TNK%20GROUP%20SRL&cat=STABILIZER&artd=STABILIZER&mm=HONDA

Those look like the same braces from Fast from the Past. Anyone know if these will clear a stock fender. (At least on the 500-550s?)

yep, they all get it from http://www.tarozzipaolo.it/inglese/stabiliz.htm#honda

remember seeing them on stockers, might need some work to make fit, like grinding the bridge a bit. I ended up using the bridge piece to mount my front shorty fender, works very well.

[HondaMan]

here's your guy

http://www.tnk.it/en/prodotti7.php?mp=TNK%20GROUP%20SRL&cat=STABILIZER&artd=STABILIZER&mm=HONDA

Those look like the same braces from Fast from the Past. Anyone know if these will clear a stock fender. (At least on the 500-550s?)

yep, they all get it from http://www.tarozzipaolo.it/inglese/stabiliz.htm#honda

remember seeing them on stockers, might need some work to make fit, like grinding the bridge a bit. I ended up using the bridge piece to mount my front shorty fender, works very well.

Turbo:
How's the stiction with those braces? Did you leave out the dowels, or install with them still in place?

That's somewhat like the idea I have in mind, but mine would be more billet-like and have a spreader adjuster (I hate stiction, would want it adjustable for each bike to stop it). I'm also curious about any wear pattern that might be showing up in the grooves on the forks where those clamps grip...

[turboguzzi]

Hei HM

the four bolts that connect the top plate have elongated holes, so after securing the clamps, you "pump" the supsension up and down a few times and only then tighten them, just like you do with the bottom axle clamps, so in theory they are self adjusting.

i am now dismantling the front end, will take out the springs an let you know if i feel any difference in stiction

no wear marks on the clamping areas so far.

TG

[somesuch]

Hei HM

the four bolts that connect the top plate have elongated holes, so after securing the clamps, you "pump" the suspension up and down a few times and only then tighten them, just like you do with the bottom axle clamps, so in theory they are self adjusting.

i am now dismantling the front end, will take out the springs an let you know if i feel any difference in stiction

no wear marks on the clamping areas so far.

TG

It is pretty easy to measure stiction .....put a zip tie on the fork tube and push down on the bars....let go slowly...push the zip tie against the slider wiper (assumes no gators) Now, pull up on the bars and let it down slowly...the distance between the wipper and the zip tie is it.... you now have your stiction in mm and not just "I feel less/more stiction" ") The bike should be vertical.

and now that it can be measured:


-take the brace off and re-measure.
-align front end (loosen/pump/tighten) and re-measure.
-anodize and polish the inside of the slider and re-measure.
-use single lip seals and re-measure.
-use different size seals ? and re-measure.
-polish springs and re-measure.
-polish inside of the tubes and re-measure.
-use different oil and repeat.....

I think this list can go forever.....I tried way to many combinations  at one time or another

--Nick

[Terry in Australia]

Here you go men, Telefix make such a brace, and I think they're still available? Here's a pic of one on my K1, the problem of course, is that the brace sits above your forks, so unless you run 2 inch over tubes like mine, your OEM gaiters are gonna be permanently collapsed, unless you're able to take a couple of inches out of the bellows.

You won't find one of these alloy braces for anything older than a CB750F, because the sliders on the 69-76 K series bikes are not long enough for a "clamp on" style brace like this one. These forks are K7 with CycleX 2 inch over tubes, and they work very well on my K1 "Ballistic Kruiser".  

Oh, and Frank, have another look at your design mate, the reason we all ignored it, is that we're not convinced that it'll work. A mate of mine made a similar one from thinner heat hardened steel plate 30 years ago for his K2 and it worked great, but thick alloy plate won't work if you need to mount your fender and caliper/s. Ok for drag bikes with no front brake perhaps, but in the real world.......... ?

[turboguzzi]

Hei HM

the four bolts that connect the top plate have elongated holes, so after securing the clamps, you "pump" the suspension up and down a few times and only then tighten them, just like you do with the bottom axle clamps, so in theory they are self adjusting.

i am now dismantling the front end, will take out the springs an let you know if i feel any difference in stiction

no wear marks on the clamping areas so far.

TG

It is pretty easy to measure stiction .....put a zip tie on the fork tube and push down on the bars....let go slowly...push the zip tie against the slider wiper (assumes no gators) Now, pull up on the bars and let it down slowly...the distance between the wipper and the zip tie is it.... you now have your stiction in mm and not just "I feel less/more stiction" ") The bike should be vertical.

and now that it can be measured:


-take the brace off and re-measure.
-align front end (loosen/pump/tighten) and re-measure.
-anodize and polish the inside of the slider and re-measure.
-use single lip seals and re-measure.
-use different size seals ? and re-measure.
-polish springs and re-measure.
-polish inside of the tubes and re-measure.
-use different oil and repeat.....

I think this list can go forever.....I tried way to many combinations  at one time or another

--Nick

got the feeling that unless you have a way to measure how much you push and pull in terms of force or stroke, the stiction measured is not going to be very consistent. the delta between the two zip tie is going to be mostly dependent on the hydraulic damping characteristics IMHO. but it is sure easy to try it now that the bike is still in one piece, so will give it a go.

my idea was to measure fork travel resistance after taking the springs and most of the oil out and let the fork assy flat on a bench. The force that i'll measure at this point is going to be purely the stiction.  

got twin bushed rd350 forks on the way, itll be interesting comparing the two even if this might be relevant only to people who are into racing. the modified  stock fork worked fine for me until this season when i picked up the pace noticeably.

[somesuch]

...
got the feeling that unless you have a way to measure how much you push and pull in terms of force or stroke, the stiction measured is not going to be very consistent. the delta between the two zip tie is going to be mostly dependent on the hydraulic damping characteristics IMHO. but it is sure easy to try it now that the bike is still in one piece, so will give it a go.

my idea was to measure fork travel resistance after taking the springs and most of the oil out and let the fork assy flat on a bench. The force that i'll measure at this point is going to be purely the stiction.  

got twin bushed rd350 forks on the way, itll be interesting comparing the two even if this might be relevant only to people who are into racing. the modified  stock fork worked fine for me until this season when i picked up the pace noticeably.

The push/pull force and the damping do not affect the results, but you do need to be careful to slowly let go.... it is the fork spring that is providing a consistent force here, and what we are measuring is purely what is called "stiction". Doing it from two directions is what makes it "visible" just remember to divide the number in two if you  are using it to calculate things later.....

--Nick

[754]

Terry, it never affected brake function, but I did reverse the upper brake mount, and am running single disc, dual should work. The fender clearance is 4 3/4 inches, plenty of room there, but stock will not drop in. I have a fender on mine, but originally ran without one.

 I was under the impression that for roadracing, front end stiffness was more  desired, than  the mounting of a stock fender.

 It is pretty stiff, and from what I have seen, similar in concept to a design Egli used. his involved custom sliders that were expensive to build. they were about 6 or 7 inches wide at top to hold the braces..

 FWIW