Topic: 1977 CB550 K cafe racer build

[traveler]

No sweat......this has been a real learning experience....second bike I have built.  Again, she goes from a snarl to a SCREAM at 7,000 RPM....really crazy...you wouldn't think with the stock cam that it would have a powerband...but it is there!  The way this bike is set up and lightened, no cam change is necessary.  Never underestimate the performance increase that can be had from weight reduction.  A stock motor will do wonders in a light setup, plus the added benefit of better handling, etc. that comes as part of the equation.

Future plans are tapered head tube bearings, and thicker fork oil...the 10W30 pennzoil works fine for mild cruising, but for corner carving, it is still too spongy.  Might need 50W oil or thicker.

May have to raise the front teeth on the sprocket back up to stock 17 tooth versus the 15 tooth on there now.....who knows.

I do appreciate all the advise and support I have received from the start of this transformation in December through now.

I would have never believed the amount of money it would take to get to where I like it....if I had known then, I probably wouldn't have done it....but what's done is done...it's paid for, so it stays.

~Joe

[Zaipai]

Consider a few mods for next season. If you keep the front disc, switch to stainless its a cheap upgrade that will ad firmness to the brakes. The stock lines tend to bulge under load and give it a spongy feeling. If you want to shed more weight off the bike, ditch the front brake all together and have the back brake tuned, some on the fourms does that I believe. Basically, you send in the rear wheel and a set of new pads and the match every thing and put notches in the rear drum. Its a good way to wake up the rear brakes, allowing you to ditch the extra pounds of the front disc. Also replacing the stock springs for the valves is a pain, but better springs means less chance of issues running at the higher RPM's when doing WOT. I would also recommend HondaMan's ignition setup, one I plan to do. Further down the road Dyno coils would be a great addition. All just options to consider, however at some point it gets to be a bit much.. er at least that is what the wife tells me! Then again if you plan on a 750 you may want to keep things as is and use that money for the 750 restore..  just saying!

.: Scott :.

[Retro Rocket]

If you want to shed more weight off the bike, ditch the front brake all together and have the back brake tuned, some on the fourms does that I believe. Basically, you send in the rear wheel and a set of new pads and the match every thing and put notches in the rear drum. Its a good way to wake up the rear brakes, allowing you to ditch the extra pounds of the front disc.

Sorry Zapai but thats is silly advice for any bike let alone a performance orientated bike. If you know what you are doing you should use about 80-85% front brake to 15-20 % rear, using rear only for your brake is a recipe for disaster as it virtually washes of no speed in a hurry making stopping in a dangerous situation almost impossible. About 2 years ago i witnessed a middle aged Harley owner {you know the type, can't ride but wants the image} slam on his rear brake at 60 KMH {35MPH} and slid straight into the back of a boat, the bottom of the raised boat motor split his chest in half and he died right in front of me. In the same situation i could have stopped in a quarter of the distance......DO NOT DELETE THE FRONT BRAKE...
If you want more power  get a better cam, that bike is already light enough. Braided front brake lines and some aftermarket cast or steel discs are lighter that the stainless discs that are standard and have better bite......

Thats a great little bike Joe....

Mick

[Zaipai]

If you want to shed more weight off the bike, ditch the front brake all together and have the back brake tuned, some on the fourms does that I believe. Basically, you send in the rear wheel and a set of new pads and the match every thing and put notches in the rear drum. Its a good way to wake up the rear brakes, allowing you to ditch the extra pounds of the front disc.

Sorry Zapai but thats is silly advice for any bike let alone a performance orientated bike. If you know what you are doing you should use about 80-85% front brake to 15-20 % rear, using rear only for your brake is a recipe for disaster as it virtually washes of no speed in a hurry making stopping in a dangerous situation almost impossible. About 2 years ago i witnessed a middle aged Harley owner {you know the type, can't ride but wants the image} slam on his rear brake at 60 KMH {35MPH} and slid straight into the back of a boat, the bottom of the raised boat motor split his chest in half and he died right in front of me. In the same situation i could have stopped in a quarter of the distance......DO NOT DELETE THE FRONT BRAKE...
If you want more power  get a better cam, that bike is already light enough. Braided front brake lines and some aftermarket cast or steel discs are lighter that the stainless discs that are standard and have better bite......

Thats a great little bike Joe....

Mick

I respect your advice RR, you are a man that knows his stuff.. I am sure Joe will take your advice.

For me however, I have in the 20+ years of riding never used the front brake and am not going to start now. The first few bikes I had were with out front brakes. Really for the 300+ lbs your moving a good back brake is all that is needed to stop the bike. That is just my opinion so take it as just that. I only have a front brake on this bike because it was easier just to leave it. Also the front brakes on the 70's CB's are not all that great to begin with.

TTYS,
.: Scott :.

[bwaller]

+1 RR. No front brake is fool hardy.

And Joe don't use 50W oil in your forks they'll be way too harsh, use some good quality 15W fork oil. I've tried lots of viscosities and if they're well set-up 15W should be perfect.

Cool tank, how much did it weigh?

[traveler]

not sure....empty...less than 10lbs....maybe 5 lbs?

extremely light

[Retro Rocket]

I respect your advice RR, you are a man that knows his stuff.. I am sure Joe will take your advice.

For me however, I have in the 20+ years of riding never used the front brake and am not going to start now. The first few bikes I had were with out front brakes. Really for the 300+ lbs your moving a good back brake is all that is needed to stop the bike. That is just my opinion so take it as just that. I only have a front brake on this bike because it was easier just to leave it. Also the front brakes on the 70's CB's are not all that great to begin with.

WOW.....Not being an arse Scott but WOW.....I virtually only use the back brake for stability, 90+% of my braking is front and i can confidently say without a shadow of a doubt that i would be dead if i had used any other method of braking. A bike will stop way faster with the front brake, i'm lost for words {doesn't happen very often } All i can think of is that you must be a very slow and careful rider but how the hell do you stop in a emergency?

Mick

[Zaipai]

I respect your advice RR, you are a man that knows his stuff.. I am sure Joe will take your advice.

For me however, I have in the 20+ years of riding never used the front brake and am not going to start now. The first few bikes I had were with out front brakes. Really for the 300+ lbs your moving a good back brake is all that is needed to stop the bike. That is just my opinion so take it as just that. I only have a front brake on this bike because it was easier just to leave it. Also the front brakes on the 70's CB's are not all that great to begin with.

WOW.....Not being an arse Scott but WOW.....I virtually only use the back brake for stability, 90+% of my braking is front and i can confidently say without a shadow of a doubt that i would be dead if i had used any other method of braking. A bike will stop way faster with the front brake, i'm lost for words {doesn't happen very often } All i can think of is that you must be a very slow and careful rider but how the hell do you stop in a emergency?

Mick

Truthfully I never really needed to do a sudden stop, however if I had to I am confident that I could with no problem. Really the front brake (if not used properly) can be really bad and send you over the bars or out of control. That said.. Its just my style of driving its worked well for me and to each there own. I don't really want to hijack Joe's build thread.. I will say I routinely hit 70+ MPH.. However I leave lots of space in front of me and keep a keen eye out for critters.. it works.. I am sure Joe will take your advice.. no worries.. Glad I can make you speechless.. 

.: Scott :.

[Retro Rocket]

I respect your advice RR, you are a man that knows his stuff.. I am sure Joe will take your advice.

For me however, I have in the 20+ years of riding never used the front brake and am not going to start now. The first few bikes I had were with out front brakes. Really for the 300+ lbs your moving a good back brake is all that is needed to stop the bike. That is just my opinion so take it as just that. I only have a front brake on this bike because it was easier just to leave it. Also the front brakes on the 70's CB's are not all that great to begin with.

WOW.....Not being an arse Scott but WOW.....I virtually only use the back brake for stability, 90+% of my braking is front and i can confidently say without a shadow of a doubt that i would be dead if i had used any other method of braking. A bike will stop way faster with the front brake, i'm lost for words {doesn't happen very often } All i can think of is that you must be a very slow and careful rider but how the hell do you stop in a emergency?

Mick

Truthfully I never really needed to do a sudden stop, however if I had to I am confident that I could with no problem. Really the front brake (if not used properly) can be really bad and send you over the bars or out of control. That said.. Its just my style of driving its worked well for me and to each there own. I don't really want to hijack Joe's build thread.. I will say I routinely hit 70+ MPH.. However I leave lots of space in front of me and keep a keen eye out for critters.. it works.. I am sure Joe will take your advice.. no worries.. Glad I can make you speechless.. 

.: Scott :.

Sorry for the hijack Joe.

Scott, i have been around racers most of my riding life and it just blows me away that you find no need for the front brake, yes it can be dangerous if grabbed hard in the wet and you would never go over the bars on an old Honda with stock brakes mate i can guarantee you that. What stuns me is the fact that at 30 mph doing an emergency stop the front brake will stop you safely in more than half the distance the rear brake will and as you go faster that distance increases, most accidents caused by rider error are brake or speed related. Ride safe mate and start using that front brake and if you want a good measure as to what the braking differences are, get in your car and go exactly 30mph, brake as hard as you can without locking up and measure that distance {roughly} do the exact same thing and use the hand brake only to stop and measure the distance {again roughly} you will quickly see why front brakes are needed to stop properly.....Ride safe mate..

Mick

[Zaipai]

Will do Mick, Do understand I don't disagree with your premise, its just not the way I roll.. Just never had a need to stop faster then I could with the rear brake..

Right now I have a bigger issue, my bike started leaking oil around the head (pics on my build thread) so time to dig into that. sigh, not looking forward to that.

Take it easy..

.: Scott :.

[cdoggy81]

"If you want to shed more weight off the bike, ditch the front brake all together and have the back brake tuned, some on the fourms does that I believe. Basically, you send in the rear wheel and a set of new pads and the match every thing and put notches in the rear drum. Its a good way to wake up the rear brakes, allowing you to ditch the extra pounds of the front disc."

If anyone else is reading this PLEASE do not follow this advise....

[traveler]

front brake stays

[Zaipai]

front brake stays

Yea, I figured as much.. It was really only a suggestion anyway. Bring that beauty out to Milwaukee this weekend, its the Rockerbox and you would love it!!!  

http://www.rockerbox.us/

.: Scott :.

[traveler]

I have seen both setups......skipping the front brake is an old bobber trick....but I like brakes...the more the better...plus I went to the trouble and expense to have a drilled front rotor.....there's no way I would get rid of it.....that front brake does the majority of my braking....the rear drum in comparison is just a joke.

My black carb booties came in yesterday...once those are on, the only thing left in the future is tapered head tube bearings, and a stainless braided brake line.

clean her up and she is done.


~Joe

[Zaipai]

Sounds like a good plan. I do like the tapered head tube bearings, I put them on because putting the stock bearings on looked like a real pain. changing them out was super easy.. The bottom race was a bit if a pain, however in 10min it was in and I was moving forward.

.: Scott :.

[Laminar]

Truthfully I never really needed to do a sudden stop, however if I had to I am confident that I could with no problem.

You're confident that in an emergency situation, you could do something that you've never done before with enough skill to save your life?

Really the front brake (if not used properly) can be really bad and send you over the bars or out of control.

Is this some kind of joke? That's why you regularly use the front brake and learn to control it properly. As was mentioned before, you'll have a hard time doing anything wrong with a CB front brake, squeeze it hard and you'll stop fine.

[Tintop]

My black carb booties came in yesterday...

~Joe

Joe are you planning on just using the fabric 'booties', or are you going to be putting it over a wire screen filter?  wondering if at WOT the air velocity won't suck it in.  maybe made of petroleum product, but doubt the carb and engine will consider it fuel.

[Zaipai]

My black carb booties came in yesterday...

~Joe

Joe are you planning on just using the fabric 'booties', or are you going to be putting it over a wire screen filter?  wondering if at WOT the air velocity won't suck it in.  maybe made of petroleum product, but doubt the carb and engine will consider it fuel.

Good question.. Hum.. Might be worth doing Joe, just in case..

.: Scott :.

[traveler]

Well, they are made for usage on velocity stacks.....appear to be a nylon sheer material

I will zip tie them on the outside of the velocity stack.

You'll see....it's gonna be sweet!

~Joe

[Zaipai]

Well, they are made for usage on velocity stacks.....appear to be a nylon sheer material

I will zip tie them on the outside of the velocity stack.

You'll see....it's gonna be sweet!

~Joe

Sounds like a plan. I did not know they were made to be used while the motor is running, should be good then..

.: Scott :.

[Syscrush]

Ignoring the front brake at 70 mph = death wish.  Seriously, learn to ride a motorcycle - it's not a personal preference thing, it's physics pure and simple.

But back on topic - Joe, since you mention the sponginess of the front end... Have a look at Race Tech Cartridge Emulators.  The damping rod setup of the stock forks have exactly the wrong behavior - they're soft under low-frequency loads like braking (hence the brake dive), but harsh over high frequency loads (like rough pavement, potholes, etc.) - this is backwards from what we want (less brake dive but more compliance over rough surfaces).

Tuning out the brake dive with thicker oil and/or stiffer springs will result in increased harshness over the bumps, which is uncomfortable at best, and dangerous at worst (if you hit that roughness while on the brakes or turning, it can really upset the bike).  The RTCE's are available for the 550, and they have made a night & day difference for me on every bike I've used them on.  I haven't put them on a 550, but have put them on a Katana 600, SV650, and recommended them to a friend with a Ninja 500.  My experience and his are uniformly positive over those 3 bikes.

Race Tech also makes springs and can suggest the right rate for your bike.  Given how much weight you've cut off the bike, though - I wouldn't be surprised if the stockers were fine.  Start by sorting out the damping and see if you still feel like it's too soft.

[traveler]

I've got Progressive springs and 10W30 oil in the forks.

~Joe

[Syscrush]

I've got Progressive springs and 10W30 oil in the forks.

Good.  Have a look at the RTCE's, too - they can really change the bike for the better.

Some info here

[Zaipai]

Ignoring the front brake at 70 mph = death wish.  Seriously, learn to ride a motorcycle - it's not a personal preference thing, it's physics pure and simple.

You could not be more wrong. I have been riding since I was 8 I am now 47.. I think I have a few more miles on bikes then you do. Go do some research and then state your opinions..

.: Scott :.

[traveler]

Are you guys SERIOUSLY going to take over this thread?