Author Topic: Opinions on a 1972 CB500  (Read 5142 times)

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Offline SonnysTile

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Opinions on a 1972 CB500
« on: December 24, 2009, 10:06:11 AM »
Hey guys, been lurking awhile and finally getting around to posting.

I've got a really nice 500Four that I'm using as my daily rider while I "play" with my '75 400F.

I want to keep it looking pretty stock (and save all my stock parts), but do some period correct cosmetic upgrades, and some hidden performance upgrades.

So far I replaced my 4-4 for a NOS Jardine 4-1 system that looks and sounds fantastic. It was brand new, in the box and stuffed with newspaper from 1972.

I just got some progressive front springs and a NOS set of Redwings for the rear (they are REALLY soft but I haven't changed the setting yet).

I am using Drag bars on my 400, so the 500 will get the lower 400F bars.

My wife is buying me a brand new (replica) Giuliari seat with 500FOUR stamped on it for my birthday (the maker is in Cali, maybe he's on here?).

I'm thinking about some sleeker mirrors, smaller blinkers and maybe one of those chrome headlight visors as far as visual changes.

My questions have to do with performance: I have heard a K&N foam air filter is a great upgrade, especially with the new
4-1 exhaust.  I can't find one. Is a uni filter (stock replacement, not pods) comparable?

Should I swap out the steering and wheel bearings for All Balls?  Worth the trouble?

I have heard a lot of people swear by bronze swingarm bushings. Again, worth it? Rebuild the whole swingarm internals?

How big of a benefit is an electronic ignition set-up? I have never had a problem with timing.

What sprocket and chain set up do you all recommend?  I never take it on the freeway and would like a little more stoplight to stoplight get-up....

Brakes: Ebay has a nice looking Galfer stainless set-up and I thought about buying a drilled rotor and stainless piston for the caliper.  That'd be just under $300 for that plus new pads and a MC rebuild kit.  (currently the front brake is a little sticky)


It's got a little over 9K on the clock and runs like a champ.

Here's some pics of her (and one of my wife's '67 CA160 the day I brought it home)

Thanks for reading my "book" here and any input is appreciated....

Sonny
1972 CB500, 1975 CB400F, 1967 CA160

Offline SonnysTile

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Re: Opinions on a 1972 CB500
« Reply #1 on: December 24, 2009, 10:14:54 AM »






1972 CB500, 1975 CB400F, 1967 CA160

smokeygold

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Re: Opinions on a 1972 CB500
« Reply #2 on: December 24, 2009, 10:46:23 AM »
The seat you are talking about is probably the nicest looking seat out there. I am going to order one for my 750 next week. The quality on the website looks awesome! Do me a favor...lose that rack when you put the beutiful new seat on that beutiful bike!!! ;)

Offline SonnysTile

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Re: Opinions on a 1972 CB500
« Reply #3 on: December 24, 2009, 11:00:34 AM »
ha!

already did....
1972 CB500, 1975 CB400F, 1967 CA160

Offline Deltarider

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Re: Opinions on a 1972 CB500
« Reply #4 on: December 24, 2009, 11:15:20 AM »
Quote
Should I swap out the steering and wheel bearings for All Balls?  Worth the trouble?
No, why? Is there any play then? ???
Quote
I have heard a lot of people swear by bronze swingarm bushings. Again, worth it? Rebuild the whole swingarm internals?
Why? Is there any play then? ??? My 500 has done 130.000+  kms now and still no play at all. Now I think of it... haven't greased them in years.

Quote
How big of a benefit is an electronic ignition set-up? I have never had a problem with timing.
A transistor ignition like Hondaman's is sensible. I have done more than 50.000 kms with the same points now with a similar transistor ignition. Other aftermarket products, no matter what brand, are highly overpriced. With 9k mileage I suppose original TEC breakerpoints are still in place. I value even one such breakerpoint more than any electronic gadgetry. Even just one. TEC were the best, made like jewelry. Keep them. You can rely on them. Combined with Hondaman's ignition you'll be fine for the next 50.000 kms if not more.

Quote
 (currently the front brake is a little sticky)
Just clean. Original brake may be not very impressive, but you can brake like a fool, without locking the front wheel. Do you intend to ride in the rain a lot? If not, your brake is fine.

Quote
It's got a little over 9K on the clock and runs like a champ.
Ofcourse it runs like a champ, it has hardly finished it's breaking in. Can't believe it, in all of Europe you wouldn't find a 500 Four with at least 75.000 kms. Who were these previous owners? Toy collectors? Enjoy that beautiful bike and save your energy for later, when it's needed. What happened to the 4-4? Why did you remove them? And what do you intend to do with the original seat?
« Last Edit: December 24, 2009, 11:45:11 AM by Deltarider »
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Offline Deltarider

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Re: Opinions on a 1972 CB500
« Reply #5 on: December 24, 2009, 11:54:37 AM »
That bike is perfect. The only thing I would do is to get rid of those handlebars. They're an insult.
« Last Edit: December 25, 2009, 05:25:12 AM by Deltarider »
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Offline brett_bike

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Re: Opinions on a 1972 CB500
« Reply #6 on: December 24, 2009, 11:58:20 AM »
Interested to hear about the performance upgrades when complete.  I have been working on  '73 CB500 Four also so it will be fun to see your progress.

Any interest in getting rid of your stock 4 into 4?  I have been running a Mac 4 into 1 for about 2 years now and I like the look of the stock setup better.

Also, I have always heard that the All Balls tapered headset bearings are the way to go.  My bike is apart and in the process as we speak.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2009, 12:00:22 PM by brett_bike »

Offline SonnysTile

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Re: Opinions on a 1972 CB500
« Reply #7 on: December 24, 2009, 11:59:13 AM »
the seat is real nice, and I want it to stay that way, so its getting removed in lieu of the Giuliari (which I love) and oiled up and put away for now.

the pipes were starting to show their age, some rust on the tops and ends of both uppers.  They are getting saved so I have them should I ever decide to sell the bike, I want to keep all the original parts.

Plus, the Jardine set were only $200 shipped to my door!  A whole lot less than an OEM set woulda cost me and half the price for a MAC (which I don't care for).

nothing seems loose or worn, so I guess I'll just ride it til, theres a problem.

Do I have to cut into the main wiring harness to hook up a Hondaman Ignition?


My bikes story:  One owner, an old man who lived in Northern Michigan. Bike was kept indoors and hardly ridden. I got all the original paperwork, bill of sale from the dealer, and receipts from every oil change (done at the dealer). he also had the carbs serviced a few years ago and the brakes rebuilt, again, all at the dealer and I have receipts for it all!

I even got the original warranty book, toolkit, service record book, and owners manual!

Score.
1972 CB500, 1975 CB400F, 1967 CA160

Offline brett_bike

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Re: Opinions on a 1972 CB500
« Reply #8 on: December 24, 2009, 12:05:09 PM »
I can't blame you for not wanting to get rid of the stock exhaust.  If it's worth having, it's worth asking for.  

I have the seat like you are getting.  It's from Classic Cycle City out of California, it's a beautiful piece of workmanship.  Apparently I have an early production run, so I'm not sure if they are being mass produced yet.  If you PM me I can send you some pics of mine.

smokeygold

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Re: Opinions on a 1972 CB500
« Reply #9 on: December 24, 2009, 12:27:55 PM »
Post pictures of that seat on the forum...that thing is too nice to keep to yourself!

Offline brett_bike

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Re: Opinions on a 1972 CB500
« Reply #10 on: December 24, 2009, 12:50:45 PM »
Not painted yet.  I want to wait 'till I complete the build before I post.  

Besides, I don't think they want it all over the forum when it's not available yet.  Ted at Classic Cycle City might re-direct all the calls he gets to me for bringing it up.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2009, 12:53:51 PM by brett_bike »

smokeygold

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Re: Opinions on a 1972 CB500
« Reply #11 on: December 24, 2009, 01:06:44 PM »
I found them on ebay so I think they would love the exposure!

Offline SonnysTile

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Re: Opinions on a 1972 CB500
« Reply #12 on: December 25, 2009, 09:53:53 AM »
The seats aren't ready yet, but I've been keeping in touch with Ted over there so I can be one of the first in line.

I am getting the fully upholstered seat with the gold stamp on the side, I think it looks period correct...

Still undecided about the trim strip though.  I love the way the stock seat trim lines up with the tank, but I'm not sure if I like it as much on the Giuliari as it doesn't go all the way round.

Hondaman informed me that his ignition set-up is a plug in and go, no need to cut any wires, so I think I am going that way as opposed to a dyna.

The bearing and bushings I keep hearing people swear by, but I'm just not sold that the ride difference is worth all that work. Thats a few weekends worth of free time for me if the results aren't noticeably better.

As for sprockets and chain, I was thinking of just dropping a tooth up front and adding three out back. Not knowing a lot about ratios (math is hard) that seems like it would give me more than enough punch around town. I have no desire for serious top end...  What is your alls experience with that?
1972 CB500, 1975 CB400F, 1967 CA160

Offline Deltarider

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Re: Opinions on a 1972 CB500
« Reply #13 on: December 25, 2009, 10:10:26 AM »
Quote
As for sprockets and chain, I was thinking of just dropping a tooth up front and adding three out back.
I have the impression you think too much. Ride more. Since 1979 I´ve done over a ton on my CB500 and I was never tempted to change sprockets. I like it the way it is. When I really want, in acceleration, I don´t have to upshift into second before 75 km/h! With a reduction of exactly 2 my tachometer counts as an extra speedometer: in 5th 6000 rpm equals 120 km/h, 7000 is 140 km/h, 8000 is 160 km/h. I never managed to get more than 8500 rpm in topgear which equals 170 km/h. I like it the way it is. You seem very eager to wrench and spend money rightaway. Your bike is practically a virgin. Why don´t you ride it first and find out what you like and what not. I mean: give Honda a chance.
Back in the seventies this was the bike that made the boss of Porsche sigh: "This will be the bike of the century." You know Porsche, don't you? Eventually it became the 750, but insiders prefer the 500. It was imitated in detail by Benelli (cinquecento quattro) and even the Chinese made an exact copycat in the nineties. When? 1995! 1995! It was copied by Suzuki and Kawasaki who couldn't think of anything else than to offer 50cc more. And here you are, you want to change this and you want to change that. Jeezz, is there nothing in your house that needs fixing? People around here would commit murder for a 500 in the virgin state you acquired it. Just can't believe it. The 500 Four as in your pictures is an icon and will be in the historybooks, next to the piramids. If there's a 500 anywhere that would have deserved a new original 4-4, it's yours. No sir, it has to be loud pipes again and inferior foam filters. BTW, it's not until recently that carmaker Audi announced to try to develop an synthetic airflter that filters as good as a paper element. Yes, to try.
« Last Edit: December 25, 2009, 11:42:26 AM by Deltarider »
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Offline SonnysTile

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Re: Opinions on a 1972 CB500
« Reply #14 on: December 25, 2009, 10:25:41 AM »
I should probably clarify, this is my 4th CB500.

my first was a Frankensteined mess that I tinkered with and eventually married to a parts bike and cafe'd since it was missing a LOT of parts and that was cheaper and easier way to go.

next was a snotty stocker that I cleaned up a bit.

I used to ride those daily when I found this beauty. this was for sunday rides two up with the lady only.

Then I sold the three others (funded the wedding) and picked up the CA160 so the wife can ride and this bike has become my rider.

The weather is stopping the riding and I am curious to see how well this bike can be made to run and handle with another 30+ years of technology available while still maintaining the vintage look.

Just testing the waters and getting opinions is all...

1972 CB500, 1975 CB400F, 1967 CA160

Offline HondaMan

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Re: Opinions on a 1972 CB500
« Reply #15 on: December 25, 2009, 07:10:10 PM »
Well, I hate to foist my opinions on others, so I'll stick to the "tech" approach:

The Jardine will produce less HP and torque than the stock pipes. That's physics: the 4-1 pipe collectors need to be longer than the 500's frame to increase the header suction enough to make more power than the stockers did. The stock pipes on the 500 probably had more engineering in them than anything Honda did prior in that area, because they had to be short and had to try to produce more torque in the 5000 RPM range than they finally did: they tried to offset the short-pipe loss of midrange by increasing the intake runners, which did help some. The Yosh megaphones that finally removed that famous "flat spot" ended 8 inches past the rear wheel...that's what it takes, in terms of the pipe lengths...

The electronic ignitions: the Dyna 'S' will make less spark than the points. Mine will make more spark than the points, while still using them (that's in a nutshell: others have seen my novels explaining this elsewhere...  :D ).

Tires: try to stay with the right size. They often get oversized on these bikes, which seriously reduces acceleration with two aboard. Stock front was 3.25, rear was 3.75 when new. A metric front today would be a 90/90 and the rear would be a 100 (3.50 equivalent), or possibly a 110 (3.93): I usually rin the 110 on a 750, which came stock with 4.00 rears. Metric tires let you run higher tire pressures, which also improves performance.

Avoid O-ring chains if you're looking for power: they lose almost 7% while a non-O-ring chain like the Diamond Powersport loses only about 3%.

Check the Thoughts Of Hondaman, where Steve captured some of my old 500 notes. One of the most significant things you can do to these engines is to port the heads. I have seen as much as 5 HP appear out of nowhere on them after a good port job and a K&N airfilter, using stock pipes. All we changed besides that was the mainjets, going up 2.5 size (I think that took mine to 97.5,back in 1973, but don't remember the exact mainjet number, at the moment).

The stock gearing was actually pretty good, unless you were going racing. Then we went bigger on the back by 2 or 4 teeth - but those engines often had cams to take advantage of the willingness to rev that those great Fours have. In those engines, we had to recurve the spark advancers to meet the higher RPM, too. That's a whole post by itself, though...

I think the 500 was one of the most beautifully styled bikes Honda ever produced...  ::)
« Last Edit: December 28, 2009, 07:53:23 PM by HondaMan »
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

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Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

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Offline brett_bike

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Re: Opinions on a 1972 CB500
« Reply #16 on: December 26, 2009, 06:49:20 PM »
I found them on ebay so I think they would love the exposure!

That is the 750 seat, 500/550 looks the same.  Be patient, when it comes back from paint and it's back on the  bike, I'll post a pic.