Topic: anyone here had vertabra fused?

[78 k550]

I don't have pain like i used to after riding since i got my 84 standard wing with fairing. The wind does take it's toll.
I didn't think it would of made much of a difference but it did.
 
Paul

[BobbyR]

oh, i got rid of the clipons and the adjustable tomaselli bars 3 years ago. i AM going to see another neurosurgeon sometime in january (i'll call after the holidays) happy days folks, i didnt mention what i got in thr mail yesterday.........my approval for medicaid, SO i might could start seeing the docs i'm supposed to. i WILL not abuse it like some people, i hated to apply but there was just no way around it.

I am sure you will use your benefits wisely. You paid taxes many years and happily you will get the treatment you really need.

[bucky katt]

what do you folks know about what i understand is a fairly new process, replacement of the disc between the vertabra? it was something that the new neurologist mentioned and it's possible that it will be covered by medicaid. from what i've read, theres better mobility in many cases than with fusion.

[MickeyX]

Typically, they dig out your old disc, put in a spacer and then put in a fusion plate to hold it all together and help keep the spacing right. The better result is that you are no longer pinching the disc and wearing it out further.
There is a newer version of the plate that is like an accordion hinged type of thing. The plate hinge part goes into the spot where the disc was and the flat part bolts to the body of the vertebrae. It's an all in one and it lets you flex forward and back much more. Not so much side to side though, like you wouldn't touch your ear to your shoulder as easily as when you were younger but better than you can now, definitely and much better than the full fusion kind. I'll see if I can find some pics. Many people really like the results of the hinged one. I'm not sure what the criteria is for which kind you get though.

[MickeyX]

This is a side view of an ACDF (anterior cervical discectomy and fusion) with new autograft caged spacers where the discs used to be... nice work.  



The screws are in the bodies of C5 and C7. The spacers can be seen in the disc spaces between C5/6 and C6/7. If you look above 5, you can see that the body of C4 isn't looking too good. The disc space is nonexistent and the body has a compression fracture. That's what happens if you don't take care of the good work done on you. The ones they worked on stay stable, the ones around them suffer badly because there's no give. Now the top of the neck, above the fix is kyphotic (leaning forward) at an odd angle. That has to hurt and probably is giving the person some pain or numbness down the shoulders/arms/hands and maybe into the abdomen and legs. Usually, there is a temp change to the neck or other body parts when that happens. They tend to get cold.

The scar for an ACDF is usually just 2-3" or so. Btw, chicks dig scars.  

I'm not finding a pic for the hinged type. They are rare yet.

[bucky katt]

lol, my wife just smacked me with a wooden spoon when i told her what you said about chicks loving scars (they also all loved my knees when i wore a kilt) if there is a chance that i'll be worse off as far as pain and/or mobility goes i dont think i want to get cut on. see, believe it or not but i am absolutely terrified of needles (i've been tattoed 14 times) i dont get the flu shot because if that. all i know is that right now, even with 160 - 180 10mg oxycdone a month, the pain is still so bad at times that i cant even sit up for more than 30 minutes at a time, before i have to lay down and use my special pillow with the canyon in the middle to keep my neck straight and a heating pad built in. it's why i'm awake right now, because i cant sleep when i get these twinges that make me either screech in pain or pee myself. sorry if i sound like i'm feeling sorry for myself but i just never ever dreamed in a million years that this is what my life would be like. at least i have a roof over my head and kitties that love me. those little peckerheads will all take turns sitting/laying with me when i'm hurting like this.

[bucky katt]

BTW MickeyX, the guy that came today to buy my electric 12 string guitar is from beaverton too!

[MickeyX]

From your description, I'd say you got nothing to lose. You are pretty far along in damage then. Waiting at this point will lessen your chances down to nothing. Or... you could go home in 2 days with a collar on and regain your life back in a few months. It's up to you but the only needle you're going to see is the i.v. After that, it's lights out and "better living through chemistry" during the procedure. Anesthesiologists make the best cocktails. No doubt.  

I gotta get to bed. I have a feeling work is going to call early for those who call off for the day shift. We got 3 whole inches of snow here in Portland and the world is coming to an end.  

[bucky katt]

LOL, thanks for all the info MickeyX, nice to get it from someone other than the doctor that wants to cut on me near my spine.

[Terry in Australia]

Ha ha, you folks make me laugh, comparing injuries like old folks at the senior citizens club! But you've got my sympathy Fuzzy, I cracked all my vertabrae from L1 to S1 and squashed the discs in between jumping out of perfectly good airplanes (I don't think I've ever actually landed in a C130, I wonder if they can?) and then cracked a couple of "C"s when some dick ran his car up my arse just after I retired from the Army, there was very little damage to my old Fairlane so I let him off without exchanging names etc as his car was trashed and he had no insurance, but the next day I couldn't turn my friggin' head!

Anyway, I get heaps of pain and I've recently developed a bit of sciatica in my legs which can be a real PITA on a long ride, but the Veterans Affairs looks after me a little with free medical and weekly physio, (back massage from a Vietnamese Princess, woohoo!) I was offered spinal fusion surgery, but I'm happy to wait for a "wonder drug" that will fix it without any cutting, a few Army guys I know have had the surgery, and while I'm sure that they were genuine cases, they played on it to the point where they did bugger-all work, and the rest of us had to "carry them" while they built a case for a Veterans Affairs "Gold Card". (pension, free medical, cheap car registration etc etc)

Anyway, best of luck Fuzzy, I hope whatever you choose works for you, but stay off those pain killers mate, I only take them when I just can't take any more, but I'm sure some guys just take them for the sake of taking them, and turn their brains to mush in the process.........     

[BobbyR]

Ha ha, you folks make me laugh, comparing injuries like old folks at the senior citizens club! But you've got my sympathy Fuzzy, I cracked all my vertabrae from L1 to S1 and squashed the discs in between jumping out of perfectly good airplanes (I don't think I've ever actually landed in a C130, I wonder if they can?) and then cracked a couple of "C"s when some dick ran his car up my arse just after I retired from the Army, there was very little damage to my old Fairlane so I let him off without exchanging names etc as his car was trashed and he had no insurance, but the next day I couldn't turn my friggin' head!

Anyway, I get heaps of pain and I've recently developed a bit of sciatica in my legs which can be a real PITA on a long ride, but the Veterans Affairs looks after me a little with free medical and weekly physio, (back massage from a Vietnamese Princess, woohoo!) I was offered spinal fusion surgery, but I'm happy to wait for a "wonder drug" that will fix it without any cutting, a few Army guys I know have had the surgery, and while I'm sure that they were genuine cases, they played on it to the point where they did bugger-all work, and the rest of us had to "carry them" while they built a case for a Veterans Affairs "Gold Card". (pension, free medical, cheap car registration etc etc)

Anyway, best of luck Fuzzy, I hope whatever you choose works for you, but stay off those pain killers mate, I only take them when I just can't take any more, but I'm sure some guys just take them for the sake of taking them, and turn their brains to mush in the process.........     

I have made a point of never leaving a perfectly good aircraft. If fact they did not even give us chutes. I have had massages from Vietnamese Princesses, but I had to pay for them. 

Bucky, you seem to be at a point of no return on this. You damage the nerves that high up you are talking Chris Reeves. You can make arrangements for them to give you some premeds by mouth that will ease your fears. I had a friend that had a root canal with no Novocaine, it took him a while to find a guy to do it.

[simon#42]

i will second terrys comments about the pain killers , after a particularly ill-advised overtaking attempt i spent months in hospital . just took all the pills i was prescribed like a good patient which was fine while i was doing nothing but as soon as i tried to live again i knew i had to stop taking them . god i felt bad ! giving up smoking was much much easier . after that incident i was always very wary about taking any more . there have been times when i had to of course but only take the bare minimum

[mlinder]

I got rid of all my pain pills as soon as I got out of the hospital and no one was there to force me to take them.

They #$%* you up, for sure.

[BobbyR]

I got rid of all my pain pills as soon as I got out of the hospital and no one was there to force me to take them.

They #$%* you up, for sure.

+1 Most of them don;t work on pain, they work on your head.

[Retro Rocket]

I got rid of all my pain pills as soon as I got out of the hospital and no one was there to force me to take them.

They #$%* you up, for sure.

+1 Most of them don;t work on pain, they work on your head.

Morphine totally screws with my head and does absolutely nothing for the pain. I refused pain meds when i had my Transplant and i think it made it easier to manage the pain. I assumed the pain was in my stomach area where they cut and went in but after stopping the pain meds i found the pain was all in my lower back from being on a stainless slab for nearly 12 hours, all bent up in a weird position. So when i found a comfortable spot to lay down i was nearly pain free. This also helped me get out of the hospital faster and recover better...

Mick

[Terry in Australia]

I've only had Morphine once, when I busted my collar bone, and it was magnificent, I wish I could get it legally, if I could, I reckon I'd give up drinking! Every other trip I've had to the hospital since has resulted in being given pethadine, and that stuff is p1ss weak, it's like comparing Colonel Albert B. Blanton's fine Kentucky Special Reserve single barrell Bourbon to the worst possible English beer!

[Retro Rocket]

I've only had Morphine once, when I busted my collar bone, and it was magnificent, I wish I could get it legally, if I could, I reckon I'd give up drinking! Every other trip I've had to the hospital since has resulted in being given pethadine, and that stuff is p1ss weak, it's like comparing Colonel Albert B. Blanton's fine Kentucky Special Reserve single barrell Bourbon to the worst possible English beer!

It must depend on what works for the individual, pethidine works great for me, morphine makes me itch and also makes me agitated, and does nothing for the pain.......i hate the stuff...... I now have a warning on my chart that morphine doesn't work...

Mick

[bwaller]

I spent a while on the inside after some serious burns, morphine was my friend! I'll admit though feeling agitated too after eight days and went cold turkey.

Sorry bucky, starting to stray.

[BobbyR]

Pethidine is marketed here as Demerol, which makes me sick. My Brother's Hospital stopped using the stuff since it did not work well for pain and had nasty side effects.

[bucky katt]

i was lucky i guess than morphine doesnt effect me at all. when i was in the hospital for the chest pains the last time, they gave me a huge dose because of my discomfort, enough apparently that they thought it would put me (nearly 400 pounds at the time) into a stupor so they could work on me. i never did feel a thing. i HAVE refused fentanyl patches as even I think those are way too dangerous. i actually hate the fact that the oxy keeps my ass awake for days at a time if i take it regularly. the docs have wanted to increase the dose size to 20mg and i've refused it. though with my green, all natural pain meds gone and no prospect for any more in the future, i guess i'll have to find a way to deal with it. lots of folks have told me to keep active and not to stay at rest for too long, and i have tried doing little stuff but the last time i went out ot weed my roses, i quite literally was unable to move my head for a week. as much as surgery scares me, i may be to the point when i have no choice.

[lordmoonpie]

You'll get some movement back Bucky - might not be 100% original range of motion but you'll get close, the spine is a hugely adaptive piece of engineering. I saw a programme here about a girl with horrible spinal curvature. They wired in a steel rod up the length of 12 vertebrae effectively locking them in position and four months later she could still touch her toes without bending her knees.

I'm in a similar position at the other end, my L4/5 and L3/4 discs are shot and I go in for surgery middle of January. I just decorated a room in the house and the last straw came when I couldn't pick the 2.5 litre paint tin up without kneeling down first, as soon as I tried o lift it with a bent back, nothing moved. I've given up picking up my black bomber engine for maintenance, riding on the street, almost given up ten pin bowling, the list of things you can do will only get shorter until you fix it.

I'm not having fusion in the traditional sense, I'm having a cage put in where the disc was and that's held in place with rods screwed into the vertebrae above and below. Spinal decompression they call it and it's less recovery than fusion. Might be worth asking the surgeon if that's an option for you up the other end of the spine?

A friend at work had his C vertebrae fused - took 6 months recovery and you MUST listen to what they tell you in recovery, no sneaking into the garage for spanner fun! He's absolutely recovered now, no pain, no movement issues. Best of luck with it, I can't wait to get mine sorted...

[bucky katt]

as much as i hate the idea of surgery and a lengthy hospital stay, i cant ignore the pain much longer. hell, it would be even better if, after nearly 3 years, i could go and hold a regular job.

[MickeyX]

The stay should be a matter of you going in that morning before surgery, doing all the prep stuff like i.v., then getting the surgery done, waking up and going to a regular room overnight and going home the next day or the 2nd day at most. That part really depends on how you listen to them. If you're a douche bag to them and don't do things like they tell you, they won't trust you to go home just yet. Overall, I wouldn't call that lengthy. I've spent weeks in the hospital at a shot and spent 2 1/2 years in casts with a ton of surgeries. This is could do in my sleep. I wouldn't even think twice about it if I was in your kind of pain, but we all have our own comfort zone on stuff like this. Do what you think is right but if it were me and I had a chance of feeling better and maybe getting back to work, in some capacity, I'd put forth my part of it and just trust that they can help.

Btw, I was told I would never walk again and I now play softball, ride bicycle 60-100 miles at a shot and whatever else I want. I just had to figure out how to do it with what motion range I got left and I pushed it much farther than any of them imagined. If I was still in the kind of pain you are in all the time, there's no way I'd be doing any of that. I agreed to be a guinea pig for a lot of internal hardware on my leg and many after me have benefited from what they learned. I'd do it again in a heartbeat. You are at the point where it's been proven and tried and it works because many before you have been the guinea pig. So, it's not just the docs you are trusting, it's all those people before you that have given them feedback over the years and really taken the chances and went on blind trust. Waiting will only decrease your chances of getting the best results. 

[Terry in Australia]

Hey Fuzzy, have you thought about lap band surgery? At 400 pounds or thereabouts, you're putting massive pressure on your spine, hips, knees, ankles, etc but with all the drugs you're on you probably can't do a lot of exercise, and sitting around you're probably eating more than you'd like to?

I've put back on a lot of the 50 pounds I lost over the last year or so because I've got a crook foot and can't do the daily 3 mile walks I did to lose the weight, so I'm seriously thinking about lap banding, the surgery costs around $6K here in Oz, but if I'm too fat to stay in the Army Reserve I'll lose $20K (plus) per year, so for me at least, it's worth it, and I'm thinking that with medicaid, you might get it done for free? Cheers, Terry.

[Retro Rocket]

Hi Terry, i have heard that they may be making lap band free here to help deal with obesity, it would save our health system a small fortune, so thats the premise.

Mick