Author Topic: Brake Caliper paint vs VHT Flame proof on exhaust system.  (Read 22849 times)

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Offline DiscoEd

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Brake Caliper paint vs VHT Flame proof on exhaust system.
« on: December 30, 2005, 07:20:32 AM »
Greetings,
I have been trying to make up my mind about how best to paint my 4 into 1 header. It's kind of crusty and rusty right now, but I'm going to go at it with a wire brush, etc.
I bought some VHT Flame Proof 1200 degree F flat black paint. The problem is that I'm just not sure that I want it to be flat black. I think I would prefer a gloss black, but the only thing I can find is some 900 degree F brake caliper paint. I think its made by Duplicolor.

So what do you think? Would this 900 deg. F brake caliper paint be acceptable to use? Should I maybe first coat it with the 1200 deg. flat black and then paint it with the gloss black paint?

Regards,
DiscoEd
1975 CB550 K1
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Offline dusterdude

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Re: Brake Caliper paint vs VHT Flame proof on exhaust system.
« Reply #1 on: December 30, 2005, 07:26:56 AM »
use the flat as a heat barrier and paint the gloss over it
mark
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Offline Bodi

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Re: Brake Caliper paint vs VHT Flame proof on exhaust system.
« Reply #2 on: December 30, 2005, 07:32:42 AM »
Every header paint I've tried (probably all of them) has burnt off more or less immediately. Probably the flat black 1200F paint will last a bit longer and look better than gloss as it flakes off.
Header tape is a bastard to get on nicely and looks a bit strange to some folks, but it seems to last and can look better than rust.
For a decent gloss black you need to have the pipes professionally ceramic coated.

Offline DiscoEd

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Re: Brake Caliper paint vs VHT Flame proof on exhaust system.
« Reply #3 on: December 30, 2005, 08:01:00 AM »
Every header paint I've tried (probably all of them) has burnt off more or less immediately.

I wonder why it would burn off so quickly, does the header really get that hot? Does the temp really exceed 1200F. Or, is it just that the paint does not bond well to the pipes?

As far as the header tape, I just can't seem to wrap my "tastes" around it. It just leaves me feeling like there should be coal fired boiler attached to the other end of the pipe.

Regards,
DiscoEd
1975 CB550 K1
1976 CB550
1974 CB360
2003 Suzuki Volusia Intruder

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eldar

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Re: Brake Caliper paint vs VHT Flame proof on exhaust system.
« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2005, 08:13:29 AM »
combustion temps get pretty high and the leaner you run, they higher they get.
Also the pipes are very smooth and smooth surfaces do not hold paint well.
You can get a heat readings from your exhaust and that can tell you what temp paint you would need but the smoothness of the pipes will give you trouble.

Offline Bodi

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Re: Brake Caliper paint vs VHT Flame proof on exhaust system.
« Reply #5 on: December 30, 2005, 02:24:36 PM »
"Immediate" isn't really accurate. I tried a few brands that didn't survive, then I bought some super-duper 1200 or maybe 1400 paint. That time I had the whole pipe sandblasted and sanded the headers wherever I could reach them, then had the thing dipped in the hot tank at an engine shop to really clean it inside and out. Then cleaned it with solvent, and sprayed 3 or 4 coats, then oven baked the coating all as per the directions. When this expensive paint and extensive time-wasting work burnt/flaked/whatever off and the rust started again I gave up.
Now there's no paint I can see left on the header. The rust bakes a pretty nice dark brown colur that looks OK. If I leave it out in the rain I get some red rust that bakes black as soon as the pipe heats up. This has lasted 15 years at least without a problem.

Offline TwoTired

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Re: Brake Caliper paint vs VHT Flame proof on exhaust system.
« Reply #6 on: December 30, 2005, 04:28:02 PM »
I don't have a success story for you.  I do have some info you might make use of, though.
Most engines average 1400 - 1600degrees F @ WOT for an exhaust gas temp.  However, unless you are doing a high speed run, it seems doubtfull the header exterior temp gets this high.  Radiation and conduction should lower the header temps pretty quickly, though I have no quantitative data.  A thick coating or multiple layers will insulate the pipe causing it to retain heat.  This could make the resultant peak heat achieved at the outer surface higher.

Do you suppose those big finned flanges that Honda put on the stock bikes helped keep the header temps down?

Anyway, I learned a lot about thermal chacteristics/theory and practice while doing power supply design and trying to put lots of power and/or parts into very compact spaces.  Surface area, color, and texture of the radiating surface make a big difference.  A thin matte coating will radiate better than a thick shiny one.  The shiny surface acts as a reflector for heat.  The matte surface difuses these reflections, allowing more of the energy to escape.  (Yawn)

It's amazing how detailed science can get on things seemingly as simple as color and surface finish.

Cheers,

Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

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cd811

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Re: Brake Caliper paint vs VHT Flame proof on exhaust system.
« Reply #7 on: December 30, 2005, 04:40:25 PM »
the best luck i've had when painting ex. is with bar-b-que grill paint. ;D

Offline Steve F

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Re: Brake Caliper paint vs VHT Flame proof on exhaust system.
« Reply #8 on: December 31, 2005, 02:28:30 AM »
 >:(I tried the paint on the header, and wasn't satisfied at all.  It was sand blasted, painted with the powdery paint from a rattle can and then baked on at the nearby heat treating facility as per instructions.  Looked great until it got a few drops of water on the pipes from a brief rain shower, and then it looked like total crap.  Was able to keep it looking "OK" for a while by applying light coats of teflon based lubricant to get the "color" back, and hide the rust spots, but it still looked like crap.  Later took it to have it ceramic coated in matte black.  Now I'm satisfied and a happy camper ;)

Offline Terry in Australia

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Re: Brake Caliper paint vs VHT Flame proof on exhaust system.
« Reply #9 on: December 31, 2005, 06:04:08 AM »
I guess there are heat paints and heat paints, but before I had a new pipe made for my Suzy GS1000S, I sandblasted the rusty old pipe, lightly "etch primed" it with a "zinc heavy" etch primer called "Super etch", then painted it with Motospray 1500 F flat silver, let it air dry, fitted it to the bike, ran the engine for 30 minutes at idle in my driveway to "bake" it, (and to avoid baking bugs to the fresh paint) then switched it off and  let it cool and cure for a day.

It looked like the ceramic silver coating that I've seen here, and stayed on the pipes for a couple of years until they were replaced, and never rusted, although the heat from some 140+ Mph runs baked a sort of "gold" tint into the pipes, which looked pretty cool. Like most paints though, heat paints are only as good as their preparation.

If you paint over dirty, rusty, or oily pipes, don't expect the paint to last very long. Also, the most critical area is the first 6 inches (no dirty pun intended) particularly the area around the 90 degree bend, maybe because that's where the headers are their thinnest, but after about a foot from your exhaust ports, you can pretty much paint them with house paint and it'll last pretty well. 

If you want shiny pipes, then you'll either need to get them ceramic coated or re-chromed, if you can find a plater who'll do it, most won't want to risk your pipes internal carbon and oil etc contaminating their chrome baths. I don't like the look of heat wrap either, my choice would be the ceramic " brushed chrome" finish, it looks very nice inded! Cheers, Terry. ;D
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Offline DiscoEd

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Re: Brake Caliper paint vs VHT Flame proof on exhaust system.
« Reply #10 on: December 31, 2005, 06:41:58 AM »
Later took it to have it ceramic coated in matte black.  Now I'm satisfied and a happy camper ;)

Steve,
Just out of curiosity how much did they soak you to have it ceramic coated? I think the other problem that I might face with that is find someone nearby who could do the ceramic coating. I'm out in the sticks.

Regards,
DiscoEd
1975 CB550 K1
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Offline clarkjh

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Re: Brake Caliper paint vs VHT Flame proof on exhaust system.
« Reply #11 on: December 31, 2005, 06:45:37 AM »
Ed,

I've got mine exhaust off as I redoing the whole bike.  Got caught in one down pore as well an running in a number of after rain/by construction site, so they have seen lots of water and dirt and grim.  I should be able to post a pic later today.  Painted with BBQ paint.

James
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Offline Steve F

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Re: Brake Caliper paint vs VHT Flame proof on exhaust system.
« Reply #12 on: December 31, 2005, 06:59:36 AM »
Cost for the black ceramic coating was $130US +- .  The black was a little more than the standard silver look because there were more steps involved in the black process (or so I'm told).  Had it done by LO-CO coatings in Oaklawn, Illinois.  They handled everything, didn't even need to sandblast or prep anything.

Offline DiscoEd

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Re: Brake Caliper paint vs VHT Flame proof on exhaust system.
« Reply #13 on: December 31, 2005, 07:02:31 AM »
Ed,

I've got mine exhaust off as I redoing the whole bike.  Got caught in one down pore as well an running in a number of after rain/by construction site, so they have seen lots of water and dirt and grim.  I should be able to post a pic later today.  Painted with BBQ paint.

James

James,
Are you saying that the BBQ paint seems to be holding up?

-DiscoEd

1975 CB550 K1
1976 CB550
1974 CB360
2003 Suzuki Volusia Intruder

My personal gallery is at:
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Offline DiscoEd

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Re: Brake Caliper paint vs VHT Flame proof on exhaust system.
« Reply #14 on: December 31, 2005, 07:09:01 AM »
Cost for the black ceramic coating was $130US +- .  The black was a little more than the standard silver look because there were more steps involved in the black process (or so I'm told).  Had it done by LO-CO coatings in Oaklawn, Illinois.  They handled everything, didn't even need to sandblast or prep anything.

Thanks Steve, Threw a bit of karma your way! ;D

-DiscoEd
1975 CB550 K1
1976 CB550
1974 CB360
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Offline clarkjh

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Re: Brake Caliper paint vs VHT Flame proof on exhaust system.
« Reply #15 on: December 31, 2005, 07:09:27 AM »
If I remember right, yes

But haven't laid eyes on the pipes for about 8 weeks :D

James
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Offline Steve F

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Re: Brake Caliper paint vs VHT Flame proof on exhaust system.
« Reply #16 on: December 31, 2005, 07:13:10 AM »
http://www.lo-ko.com/services.html
Here's the link to their website. It's LO-KO (not LO-CO like I posted earlier).

Offline 750goes

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Re: Brake Caliper paint vs VHT Flame proof on exhaust system.
« Reply #17 on: December 31, 2005, 07:41:06 AM »
just checked that site mentioned .. has anyone ever had their pistons coated with this stuff, it sounds like it may assist some of the really serious performance tweakers/members on this forum.


Offline ProTeal55

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Re: Brake Caliper paint vs VHT Flame proof on exhaust system.
« Reply #18 on: December 31, 2005, 12:29:50 PM »
I have been dealing with the guys over at LO-KO coatings for years.
I have had them ceramic coat headers and exhausts for my past cars, as well
as some powdercoating odd's & end's...Always done a great job.

Powdercoating is the best way to go about high-heat treating an exhaust.
With the Lo-Ko finish , after it is polished, almost has the look of chrome.

I cheaped out and rattle-caned my pipes on my CB myself. I used lots of light coats of
1200 bar-b-q paint - and enamel engine block paint. Worked great untill I got caught in the rain , and now
it is a flaky mess. Will prob. end up wrapping the pipes in the spring, or bite the bullet and have them
coated...
Joe a.k.a ProTeal55 a.k.a JoeyCocks a.k.a Maker of Friends

Offline DiscoEd

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Re: Brake Caliper paint vs VHT Flame proof on exhaust system.
« Reply #19 on: January 02, 2006, 09:31:32 PM »
Well, I guess I'm a bit stumped on what to do with my pipes. I would like to get them better looking, but I can't afford to send them out to get them ceramic coated at this time. It sure doesn't sound like the high temp paint works, so maybe I'm stuck with the rusty old pipes. :'(

Regards,
DiscoEd
1975 CB550 K1
1976 CB550
1974 CB360
2003 Suzuki Volusia Intruder

My personal gallery is at:
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Offline Terry in Australia

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Re: Brake Caliper paint vs VHT Flame proof on exhaust system.
« Reply #20 on: January 03, 2006, 04:05:27 AM »
Well, I guess I'm a bit stumped on what to do with my pipes. I would like to get them better looking, but I can't afford to send them out to get them ceramic coated at this time. It sure doesn't sound like the high temp paint works, so maybe I'm stuck with the rusty old pipes. :'(

Regards,
DiscoEd


Hey Ed, don't get too discouraged, all replies are of course well-meaning, but as I mentioned in my post, preparation and technique are certainly factors that should be considered in each sohcer's reply.

Sure, high temp paint won't last forever (what paint will?) and exhausts by their very nature will burn paint off quicker than any other component, but lets face it, even if it lasts one season, that's better than what you've got now, unless you want your bike to look like a rusty piece of crap?

Just do it mate, prepare your pipes meticulously, read the instructions on the can, let the paint cure as best you're able, and you'll be happy with the result. Cheers, Terry. ;D
I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

"Crazy is a very misunderstood term, it's a fine line that some of us can lean over and still keep our balance" (thanks RB550Four)

Offline DiscoEd

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Re: Brake Caliper paint vs VHT Flame proof on exhaust system.
« Reply #21 on: January 03, 2006, 04:36:46 AM »
Just do it mate, prepare your pipes meticulously, read the instructions on the can, let the paint cure as best you're able, and you'll be happy with the result. Cheers, Terry. ;D

Terry,
Thank you for the encouragement. I like your thinking. It definetly don't want it to look like a rusty peice of crap. These bikes are just too darn nice for that.

All of you guys and gals on here are great and thank you for all of the great ideas, information and just plain old good fun.  ;D

Regards,
DiscoEd
1975 CB550 K1
1976 CB550
1974 CB360
2003 Suzuki Volusia Intruder

My personal gallery is at:
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Offline clarkjh

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Re: Brake Caliper paint vs VHT Flame proof on exhaust system.
« Reply #22 on: January 03, 2006, 10:55:31 AM »
Ed

sorry for taking so long to get back to you.  I posted to pics in my gallery.  I only pressure washed the pipes before I painted so there is some flaking.  Terrys right about the prep, if there is rust under the paint then its going to peel or chip.

James
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Offline ofreen

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Re: Brake Caliper paint vs VHT Flame proof on exhaust system.
« Reply #23 on: January 03, 2006, 02:24:07 PM »
For years I had a can of Kal-gard Header Kote that I used to keep the Kerker exhausts on various motorcycles covered.  I had read that Kerker used Header Kote as the finish on their painted systems from the factory.  It looked and worked OK, but would only last a couple of years before needing to be redone.  The can finally ran out a couple of years ago and I couldn't find another.  Kal-gard doesn't list it on their website, so maybe it has gone the way of the dodo. 

Just as well, I think.  I bought a can of Dupli-Color "High Heat With Ceramic" at Schucks and used that on the Jardine exhaust on the 750 a couple of years ago.  The finish looks the same now as when I applied it.   There's no sign of peeling after around 10,000 miles.  Around the same time, I painted the headers on the 390 in my '65 F250 with the same stuff and with the same result.

Even if it does start to come off, it will be simple to renew.  But so far it is doing better than the Header Kote did.  Terry is right, prep is important.  I cleaned the exhaust and wiped it down with acetone before spraying, then cured it by riding the bike.  I like the look.  It comes out as a nice matte black.

 
Greg
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Offline ProTeal55

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Re: Brake Caliper paint vs VHT Flame proof on exhaust system.
« Reply #24 on: January 03, 2006, 03:00:38 PM »
Funny - I used the same Dupli-color with ceramic paint on my pipes , and they are starting to flake at the bends.
Guess I didn't do enough "prep" .
Joe a.k.a ProTeal55 a.k.a JoeyCocks a.k.a Maker of Friends