Author Topic: Building of a CB500 classic racer  (Read 204089 times)

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Offline Howell

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Re: Building of a CB500 classic racer
« Reply #525 on: May 12, 2011, 11:14:36 am »
This weekend another race in Assen during the Dutch Ducati Clubraces.
I hope without mechanical problems.
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Offline z1100r

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Re: Building of a CB500 classic racer
« Reply #526 on: May 13, 2011, 12:28:08 am »
  Which gear is it that has broken...?? Very sorry to read about this, I bet that gearbox wasn't cheap. I'm into 2-strokes especially the 4-cylinder RG500, RD500. The RG has a problem like this.
  When I raced my 550 a particular gear exploded on me twice. I was really lucky both times. I bought a brand new Honda replacement in the end and was glad I did, the gear had obviously been a regular problem and had been updated. The originals were completey open both sides, the updated one was solid backed one side. 
   The RG500 is known for a very weak gearbox and at one time you could buy a special cluster from a guy "Nova" I think it was.  A friend of mine bought one after seeing many expensive disasters from std clusters exploding. The Nova clusters are superb and I dont recall any failing. Cost about 1500 UK pounds 10 years ago. Is it the same guy making yours...?

 Are you giving up on it now and using std gears permanently or will you be chasing the guy up. If you are using stock gears see if you can get the solid backed one...I think it was 5th.

Offline turboguzzi

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Re: Building of a CB500 classic racer
« Reply #527 on: May 13, 2011, 12:56:18 am »
This weekend another race in Assen during the Dutch Ducati Clubraces.
I hope without mechanical problems.

Hei howel

hope it works for you indeed!

Good luck

TG


Offline Howell

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Re: Building of a CB500 classic racer
« Reply #528 on: May 16, 2011, 11:19:01 am »
Assen races 15/5 ---- Nearly podium

Saturday:
1th QP - Rain , Yrjo took 4th place , everything went oké , also the gears.

2th QP - Dry conditions , 8th place , bike running well

Sunday:
Race - Very bad weather conditions , raining and very windy.
Yrjo still hoped that it was raining because he's going well then.
Again Yrjo made a bad start , 25th position , but in the first corners I saw him pass many riders and after the first lap he was sixt !
He  was battling with Colin IOMTT9 and the next lap he passed him.
Next lap he was already on 3th place , but a danish rider came closer and passed him in a corner , but I saw that our bike was much more faster at the straight.
Yrjo passed him and the next lap the danish rider was again in front of him, there were a few meters between them.
But next lap they both were gone.
After some time the bikes and riders came back to the paddock.
What happened: The danish rider took to much risk to stay in front of Yrjo and crashed just before Yrjo in a corner.
The man was sliding over the turmac and Yrjo had to brake very hard to avoid overriding the man and crashed also.
Yrjo was ok , also the danish rider.
He apologised himself many many times.
Yrjo was furious , podium in sight , no mechanical problems and now happened this.
Yrjo knew that our bike was much faster and wouldn't  take any risk and therefore he let the danish rider pass him , the plan was to overtake him in the last lap on the straight to the finish.
But sometimes run things differently then expexted.
When will we have some luck ?
The bike was  luckely not sereously damaged.
 
« Last Edit: May 16, 2011, 12:01:48 pm by Howell »
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Offline Howell

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Re: Building of a CB500 classic racer
« Reply #529 on: May 16, 2011, 11:27:23 am »
Some more pictures :
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Offline Howell

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Re: Building of a CB500 classic racer
« Reply #530 on: May 16, 2011, 11:46:43 am »
  Which gear is it that has broken...?? Very sorry to read about this, I bet that gearbox wasn't cheap. I'm into 2-strokes especially the 4-cylinder RG500, RD500. The RG has a problem like this.
  When I raced my 550 a particular gear exploded on me twice. I was really lucky both times. I bought a brand new Honda replacement in the end and was glad I did, the gear had obviously been a regular problem and had been updated. The originals were completey open both sides, the updated one was solid backed one side. 
   The RG500 is known for a very weak gearbox and at one time you could buy a special cluster from a guy "Nova" I think it was.  A friend of mine bought one after seeing many expensive disasters from std clusters exploding. The Nova clusters are superb and I dont recall any failing. Cost about 1500 UK pounds 10 years ago. Is it the same guy making yours...?

 Are you giving up on it now and using std gears permanently or will you be chasing the guy up. If you are using stock gears see if you can get the solid backed one...I think it was 5th.

Second , third and fourth gear are broken.
The gearcluster wasn't indeed not cheap.
I know guys racing with a Nova also having problems and that gearbox is much expensive then ours.
Now my son have to save some money for a new gearcluster and in the meanwhile we ride with the partly original gearcluster.
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Offline CB750faces.com (Lecram)

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Re: Building of a CB500 classic racer
« Reply #531 on: May 16, 2011, 11:57:40 am »
That's bad luck, Rene. Hopefully you will do next time better, you deserve this



Offline turboguzzi

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Re: Building of a CB500 classic racer
« Reply #532 on: May 16, 2011, 01:07:42 pm »
sheesh guys, next time i will NOT say good luck.... maybe it'll help :)

glad that yrjo is OK.

Rene, with the crankshaft end exposed like that you really risk bending it in a crash.

Do you want one of my bomb proof covers? Even Mark McGrew of M3 is using them....

you will need to shorten the crank though




Offline Howell

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Re: Building of a CB500 classic racer
« Reply #533 on: May 16, 2011, 01:42:26 pm »
sheesh guys, next time i will NOT say good luck.... maybe it'll help :)

glad that yrjo is OK.

Rene, with the crankshaft end exposed like that you really risk bending it in a crash.

Do you want one of my bomb proof covers? Even Mark McGrew of M3 is using them....

you will need to shorten the crank though





Hi TG,

Yes TG how many bad luck men can have.
Today I have shortened the crank already a little bit.
I'm interested in these covers, but howfar you must shorten the crank and the left cover is for the ignition side I think.
TG let me know in a PM how much they cost.
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Offline Sam Green Racing

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Re: Building of a CB500 classic racer
« Reply #534 on: May 16, 2011, 01:46:20 pm »
I can only think that you two did something realy bad in your last lives, when will this bad luck end ? >:(  Pleased that Yrjo is OK though and the bike was showing promise.
Rene, have you thought about speaking to Ellis Moore about your gearbox ? (the guy that built Brents six speeder) maybe he could sort you somthing. :-\
How did Colin do ?

Sam. ;)
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Offline classic bike tuner

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Re: Building of a CB500 classic racer
« Reply #535 on: May 16, 2011, 01:56:25 pm »

How did Colin do ?

Sam. ;)
[/quote]

battery problem

Offline Sam Green Racing

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Re: Building of a CB500 classic racer
« Reply #536 on: May 16, 2011, 02:29:40 pm »
Damn, that's a long way to go for a battery problem >:(

Sam. :(
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Offline bwaller

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Re: Building of a CB500 classic racer
« Reply #537 on: May 16, 2011, 02:49:46 pm »
Sam that g-box is from Ellis in the first place. Maybe Rene can let us know if he (Ellis) offered any ideas as to why it came apart though.

Keep your chins up. Sounds like you did everything right to have a good finish otherwise.

Offline turboguzzi

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Re: Building of a CB500 classic racer
« Reply #538 on: May 16, 2011, 03:51:49 pm »
Damn, that's a long way to go for a battery problem >:(

Sam. :(

yep, ignition woes suck hard

was on pace for a podium finish with the kawi in weekend before last and ign started cutting off now and then... eventually finished the race but not in the position i wanted! didnt have to catch a ferry but not fun driving 300 miles each way for that kind of race either.

TG

Offline Howell

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Re: Building of a CB500 classic racer
« Reply #539 on: May 17, 2011, 12:50:12 am »
I sent the gearcluster last week to Ellis Moore,he said it must be a trustwasher that was pushed out of his groove.
He made a very good proposal to repair the gearcluster.
But first Yrjo has to save some money because now we have to repair the crashdamage for the next race.

picture of Colin IOMTT9 on a wet Assen
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Offline Sam Green Racing

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Re: Building of a CB500 classic racer
« Reply #540 on: May 17, 2011, 01:54:06 am »
Sorry to hear that Rene, I'm sure he will make it right for you, he has a good reputation. 8)

Sam. ;)
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Offline Howell

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Re: Building of a CB500 classic racer
« Reply #541 on: June 06, 2011, 01:27:45 pm »
Last weekend we had a race on a road track in Hengelo.

QP 1 - Hot and sunny conditions , 9th  , this could be faster because at this track you have long straights and then some narrow corners and hairpins where you have
           to  brake very hard.
           Yrjo had problems by hard braking, the frontwheel was bouncing then and therefore he lost some time .
           We thought we had to low fronttyrepressure for this kind of track , for the next QP we put some more pressure in the fronttyre.

QP 2 - 10th , Yrjo made only one lap because in the second lap the chain came off and hit him on his back without causing injuries.
           This time we were lucky , Yrjo found the chain lie next to the rearsprocket at the end of the swingarm.
           The chain was not broken but lost the complete connecting link .
           The pink link plate we found  in the oil catch tray, the springclip and connecting plate were gone.
           We mounted a new connecting link and sealed the springclip  with a strong sealant.
           With the higher tyre pressure the frontwheel bouncing was gone.
            But doing only one lap in this QP  the laptime was slower.

Race on sunday:

           We woke up with heavy rain, a storm wind and lightning , the warm up training was cancelled and also the race was delayed .
            After some time the bad weather was over and the sun was shining again and the track became dry.
            Waiting in the pitlane with running engine , before starting the warm up lap before the race, we couldn't get it in the neutral gear.
            So we turned of the engine.
            Race- Again I saw Yrjo made a very bad start , but after some laps he was in a group of four riders , battling for 7th place.
            I saw on the laptime monitor that he was the fastest of them , after another two laps he was on 8th place and during the next lap he was on 7th place.
            In the penultimate lap he was again 8th with some distance between him and the rider now on 7th place.   
            He finished also on 8th place , the distance was to large to close the gap , a backmarker slowed him down in a narrow chicane he told later.   
            Yrjo's laptimes were very much faster then in the QP's , he was faster then the man on 6th place , so a top five finish was possible if he had made a good
            start.
           Making the bad start was caused by the clutch which was slipping  and that during the complete race , probably also the cause of getting it not in it's neutral
           gear .
           Today I found the cause of the slipping clutch , a bend  clutch lifter rod.
           Trying to straighten it ,the rod broke, I saw that it had already an old rupture. 
           I replaced it by a homemade steel one.
           But despite this trouble , we had both a good feeling about this race.
           Up to the following two races during next whitsun weekend.
           Our friend with the no.4 Honda finished again on 3th place with his Honda.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2011, 01:34:53 pm by Howell »
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Offline bwaller

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Re: Building of a CB500 classic racer
« Reply #542 on: June 06, 2011, 02:45:28 pm »
Good result especially considering laptimes.

I envy your decision making abilities on problems such as with your tire pressures. It will take me a while to relearn solutions for all these little issues. Well done.

Offline turboguzzi

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Re: Building of a CB500 classic racer
« Reply #543 on: June 07, 2011, 04:03:34 am »
Nice on Yrjo on persisting against all odds :)

Rene, a spring chain clip in 2011?

Havent seen one in 15 years i think...... use a riveting link man, with the new ones (hollow tips) you dont even need the tool to rivet them, just a hammer and a center punch!

TG

BTW, when a chain flies on a 500 it will always bend/break the clutch rod.... would change the oil seal too BTW

Offline Howell

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Re: Building of a CB500 classic racer
« Reply #544 on: June 07, 2011, 11:32:59 am »
Nice on Yrjo on persisting against all odds :)

Rene, a spring chain clip in 2011?

Havent seen one in 15 years i think...... use a riveting link man, with the new ones (hollow tips) you dont even need the tool to rivet them, just a hammer and a center punch!

TG

BTW, when a chain flies on a 500 it will always bend/break the clutch rod.... would change the oil seal too BTW

Hi TG,

I didn't use never a spring clip before , I always used a riveting link till we mounted a new chain and our nr 4 racefriend said it's not necesseray to use a riveting link.
He uses a spring chain clip sealed with a strong sealant , so we did also.
Now I'm gonna use a riveting link again.
TG I think your conclusion is right that the chain has bend the clutch rod, I don't no another reason.
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Offline Howell

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Re: Building of a CB500 classic racer
« Reply #545 on: June 08, 2011, 11:49:38 am »
Pics from last race:
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Offline Howell

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Re: Building of a CB500 classic racer
« Reply #546 on: June 10, 2011, 10:59:29 am »
New Honda NSF250R moto3 , i know it's not a classic :
http://www.rscycles.com/Bikes/moto3/NSF250R_press_info.pdf
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Offline Howell

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Re: Building of a CB500 classic racer
« Reply #547 on: July 10, 2011, 10:55:11 am »
Been away for a while , four weeks holliday in Hungary.
During the whitsun weekend in june we had two races , one on sunday and one on monday with only one qualifying for both races.
Yrjo qualified 5th.
Race - 1 : In the warmup lap the gearbox seized again in 4th gear.
Our tuner was with us and had a spare engine , so we changed the engine.
This engine has shorter conrods of a Suzuki GSX-R600.
Race - 2 : Yrjo made a good start and was on 5th place during many laps , but made then nearly a highsider because the tyres lost some grip.
He had to slow down a bit and some riders passed him , Yrjo finished 8th.
Next weekend we go to Belguim to the Chimay classic bike races, still with the spare engine mounted.
The tuner refurbished our own engine during my holliday.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2011, 08:09:49 am by Howell »
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Offline Howell

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Re: Building of a CB500 classic racer
« Reply #548 on: July 10, 2011, 11:08:03 am »
Our friend with the blue Honda has also a refurbished engine now and tested it on the dyno:

http://youtu.be/P0XmOXbyVgw

Result:
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Offline turboguzzi

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Re: Building of a CB500 classic racer
« Reply #549 on: July 11, 2011, 12:22:01 am »
Rene, any idea as why these recurring gearbox failures? locked rear wheels are no fun ;)

Those 67hp's are surely impressive, getting damn close to a Paton 500's 70-something.... wish had something like that on my 500..... How much does one of those motors from your tuner cost?

:)

TG