Topic: '73 CL350, project "Lola"

[Frankenkit]

Project "WTFHIGMI".  I will probably never have a set name for this bike... but it hit me the other day to call her "Lola, l-o-l-a Lola."
Hang on tight.

As mentioned in a couple of other threads
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=63506.0

(links)
after some extended contemplation weighing pros and cons, I decided to go ahead and purchase a '73 CL350 that came in pretty nice condition with 5,140 on the clock and lots of spare parts.
I haven't been through all the spares, but here's a list of what I know is there:
 left exhaust pipe
spare tank (supposedly nice inside, who knows)
2 wheels
3 fenders (2 ft, 1 r, various years and conditions)
clutch
top of the head, as far as I know
ft. brake pads, never fitted
couple ignitions with mounts
new headlight bucket
stator
brake pedal
original owner's manual
OMP regulator already installed
and... assorted other goodies.

So I have some stuff to go through so far.
She starts right up and runs, but will die again after a bit unless the throttle gets played with. This is the best I can really expect out of year old (plus) gas out of a funky, nasty tank like that, so I'm already impressed. (the 650 wouldn't even consider running like that)

Things I've noticed right off:

The handlebars are bent.

The spark plugs won't budge.  We've started discussing this on the "what have you done to your bike today" thread...

there is a small hole in the exhaust where the header meets the silencer.

the tank that's on it is really gross, having been coated with something that looks like it used to be POR15 but is now bubbly, silver and black.  That'll have to come out.

Neither of the tanks has great paint, so I don't feel bad about wanting to sand it down and repaint.  Per the name and the rugged design of the bike, I'm just going to have fun with this bike, probably deviating a little from 'stock' in the name of fun and reliability.

Guess that's it for now.

Here she is...

[750goes]

You haven't bitten off more than you can chew after being through the 650 and all it's little problems.

with the looks of the spare parts list, you should have plenty to go on - or sell to others when you have the project finished.

From the photos so far - it looks like a great project - and it runs already so wtf - go for it - and I hope there are no major surprises waiting for you.

waiting for more photos of course.......

[MickeyX]

I was out there messing with it a bit today. There are more parts than that, I just couldn't remember them all.

It runs, just a bit rough around the edges. It needs some choke to stay running well otherwise it bogs and shuts off. It really needs a good tune and carb clean. We'll pull them off this week sometime when we can. We'll check the exhaust and see what's up with that along with figuring out if it needs air filters. It will get new cables all around and the brakes will be gone over completely before it hits the road. I want to check all the wiring and redo some of the connections. They look like they've been messed with a bit under the seat, but it's just to the brake and turn signals back there. It's a good thing I bought a bunch of connectors. I'll replace the fuse with the newer kind too.

Tandem CL350 builds. Crap, what are we thinking? 

[Frankenkit]

I just rebuilt MickeyX's carbs (same bike) and was very pleasantly surprised at how EASY those carbs are to clean.  I'll probably end up just dropping the bowls and blowing out the jets, cleaning the bowls and putting everything back together.  #1 priority right now is new tires.  It still has the originals on (!) and they're a little hard by now.

The list as it is now:
New tires
new cables
new handlebars
fresh engine and fork oil
then adjust everything as needed.

I love the functionality of the bars that are on it, but I find myself soooo tempted to go with clubman bars, just to see what the big deal is all about.  I'd never 'fit' clubmans on my 650, the bike itself is just too big, but the 350 would actually be pretty comfortable that way.  I'm so slight I could actually be pretty comfortable even without rearsets.

[paulages]

I just rebuilt MickeyX's carbs (same bike) and was very pleasantly surprised at how EASY those carbs are to clean.  I'll probably end up just dropping the bowls and blowing out the jets, cleaning the bowls and putting everything back together.  #1 priority right now is new tires.  It still has the originals on (!) and they're a little hard by now.

The list as it is now:
New tires
new cables
new handlebars
fresh engine and fork oil
then adjust everything as needed.

I love the functionality of the bars that are on it, but I find myself soooo tempted to go with clubman bars, just to see what the big deal is all about.  I'd never 'fit' clubmans on my 650, the bike itself is just too big, but the 350 would actually be pretty comfortable that way.  I'm so slight I could actually be pretty comfortable even without rearsets.

don't get cocky to quick, kit..  the little passageways up to the diaphragm up top have to be completely clear, or the carb won't work properly. i have and have seen many a 350 cleaned thoroughly, only to still have internal blockage that will drive a person crazy trying to figure out why the damn bike won't run right, even with "clean" carbs. the CV carbs can be finicky. if you don't have compressed air, get a can of compressed air for cleaning computer parts to at least check that when you blow air through the little holes, it comes out the other side. also, hold the diaphragm up to bright light and check carefully for pin holes that will also drive you crazy.

[Frankenkit]

Already checked for pinholes, but yeaaaahhh, I'll go back and blow out those passageways.  Actually, since it's so easy to remove all the rubber parts from the carbs, I'll probably just get some of the brakekleen I always used to use and blast through those passages with some force and chemical power. ...and the same for my carbs, too.  I need to pop by Ace and get some new allen bolts for the bowls and caps, too. MX's PO was a little harsh on the phillips heads.

For the record, I clean carbs by taking out all the little movable/lose-able parts, spraying them down with simple green and soaking them in hot, hot water, then going over the jets to make sure they're all clean on the inside. By this time, the carbs are 'done' and can be scrubbed over.   I blow out the tubes and passages with lung power.

but yes I need to blow out those passages with some chemicals, too.

[Frankenkit]

Pricing parts- thinking about replacing all the cables and doing a full gasket set rebuild on the carbs just to make sure the bike is at 100%.  Parts list doesn't cost NEAR what I had to put out for the 650 but I'm sure that will all come in time. 

The front fender that's on it now is actually a K0 -K3 model... but not K4 like my bike. It's going to Lucy.  The K4 front fender I have is sorta splotch rusted, so I'll be painting that and the rear fender as well.  The paint I plan on using is Duplicolor's truck bed liner, because it has a soft, sort of leathery texture, more like a regular matte black paint than 78cb750cafe's rhino liner.  I'm choosing it because that way I can ride my bike to work and school in all kinds of weather, throw tank bags on etc and not have to fret over the paint like I know I would.


So, there I am, first day of class, and a sketch pretty much like this appears on my class syllabus....


The white paint is very well preserved on the blue 'spare' tank I have, and it's only the blue that has suffered, so I'm thinking of just masking off the white and going for it with the bed liner.  Having tested it extensively on my saddlebags, I can vouch for its ability to not peel or chip at edges, so I think this design will work well.

[Frankenkit]

Oh #$%*, oh #$%*, oh #$%*.

The PO said the clutch was a little grabby. Indeed, when I was testing the bike, I'd grab the clutch lever and occasionally I'd feel a little 'pop' in the lever, up through the cable.  Wasn't sure what it was, probably some kind of adjustment issue.

Tonight I was out putzing, greased the swingarm and the little zerk next to the clutch adjustment, and decided to work the clutch lever a few times to get the grease in there good.

I was squeezing away on the clutch lever when I feel/hear a loud POP.  The cable goes slack for a bit until I push the lever all the way back out, then it feels 'normal' if a little loose.  I'm wondering wtf that was, so I repeat it, figuring if Bad Things happen while I'm working the clutch to diagnose the problem, it's better than if I baby it and then Bad Things happen while I'm on the road.
It popped again, and this time, it didn't retighten. 
Oh. #$%*.
I traced the cable down to the hole where it enters the engine cover and I'm easily able to pull the (threaded. ) end out.  The end of the cable itself is still firmly attached to whatever it attaches to, but the threaded cable adjustment thing is free to go wherever and won't re-thread, so I'm guessing it was on its last few threads and finally just stripped completely.  Not Good.

So yeah.  Of course the philips bolts that hold the crankcase cover on have become one with the machine, as well, so I couldn't open 'er up to see WTF but I'm already sort of freaking out because this was not in the plans.

[coldright]

Breathe in, breathe out.   

[Frankenkit]

ahhhhhh.

yes.

I wish I could copy and paste fiche parts....


MX says the bolt-like part of her clutch cable (1) spins freely, yet her cable has not come unscrewed from the rear crank case cover, so there's something I appear to be missing here.  Hopefully, everything is actually ok and that just needed to be threaded and tightened down, but I'm not so sure of that yet.

[MickeyX]

She's chilled again.  

We'll try to open the cover tomorrow and see what is going on and what the PO meant when he said he "adjusted it".   Neither one of us have been inside the clutch area so this should be a learning experience.   No matter what, that clutch cable is getting changed anyway. I don't trust it to be okay no matter how low the miles are. I just hope the threads aren't eaten in the case cover.

Other than that, Kit got the cap open on the spare tank and what is inside that tank you may be wondering? ...  Okay, maybe you're not wondering but I'm gonna tell you anyway. Pristine metal, ladies and gents. Oh yeah. Ya can't help but smile over a beautifully clean tank that is 37 years old. Hell, I'm still smiling over that one because mine were total rust buckets inside. That reminds me, I need to finish cleaning mine up. Can't have Kit's outshining mine, now can I?  

[paulages]

kit- that happens if the pushrod adjusting bolt the phillips screw with a 12mm locknut on the side of the cover) is out of adjustment. behind that, there are three ball bearings in a little circular casing, which mate against another piece with little cups for the balls to fit in, but that ramp up circularly. when you pull the cable, the housing rotates causing the balls to slide up the ramps and push the mechanism toward the pushrod which lifts the clutch pressure plate. if there's too much slack in the adjuster bolt, the balls reach the top of the ramp and keep going... to the next guys spot.

to adjust properly: fully slacken the cable. it is supposed to be loose like you are describing. there are no threads where it meets the cover, only threads on the cable for adjustment. then, loosen the pushrod adjuster locknut and turn the screw counterclockwise until you feel resistance (the screw is now touching the end of the pushrod). back it off 1/4 turn and lock it down. then adjust the cable for proper slack, and you're good to go. of you take the cover off beware that there is a little ball bearing that goes between the pushrod and the ramp mechanism thingy.

riding it over saturday? 

[MickeyX]

She'll only ride it over  Sat if I let her on it while it's trailered. 

Thanks for the explanation. Once she calmed down and told me what it was doing after I got off work, we checked the fiche to see what all pieces were in there before opening it up tomorrow. We figured out it was probably the balls. Damn balls, ya can't trust 'em. 

[Frankenkit]

Can't really ride 'til I get new rubber on those wheels.  It's still got the original tires, and believe me, they're a little hard 'n slippery these days...

[mrblasty]

Cool bike! They sure a lot of fun.

[Frankenkit]

Will be buying some parts tonight... Noticed something 'funny' about the bike.  It's titled as a '73, with a K5 50XXXXX VIN number but the sticker on the front says 10/72 and it has the K4 styled clocks.   Very interesting.

I asked Hondaman about replacing the japanese press-in zerks with US ones.  It's going to require pulling, drilling and tapping... so I may wait on that for a bit...

I'm going to go ahead and get new air cleaners, carb kits  and all new cables just because I don't entirely trust 37 year old cables.   ...then, if I can afford it out of this check, new tires, too.

By my humble estimation, that should be about all the bike needs to be road-ready again, unless there's something I don't know about yet. 

[Green550F]

My scrambler turned cafe had a CB title when I got her! Still haven't got that cleared up. I now have to have it titles as a 2010 home built! which means I have to make it meet all new bike safety requirements. (blinkers, always on light, etc...)

That clutch adjustment can be a bit confusing. the adj on the case scews "out" or CCW to take up slack. it is really not screwing out but pushing a carried nut in...

In the end these little bikes are wort it!

[tbpmusic]

My scrambler turned cafe had a CB title when I got her! Still haven't got that cleared up. I now have to have it titles as a 2010 home built! which means I have to make it meet all new bike safety requirements. (blinkers, always on light, etc...)

I think that's because your state is one that titles on engine numbers.
Most states don't care about engine numbers, just the frame number.

[Frankenkit]

So, today I scraped myself together and crawled out to the garage, because there's no cure for a cold like sitting in a cold ass garage and pulling apart an old ass bike.


Got some pics, because that's what I know y'all are waiting for.
After some wrangling, we got the side covers off and got to the air filters. They're a little dirty.

We got the filters off and looked at the carbs. I figured it was a Bad Sign when they didn't want to drain when I unscrewed the drain screw.

I was right, and didn't necessarily feel like a winner.


but I got everything clean and replaced all the screws in the cap and bowl with stainless allen heads.    Just waiting on my shipment of parts... carb gasket sets, new cables, and a pair of air filters.  I figure if the bugger ran all gunked up like that, it'll be in great shape when I get it back together.

Provided I can cheat the front tire up to 3.25 from the stock recommended 3.00, I'm going to go with IRC's GS-11 tires, I think, because they seem to be the best marriage of vintage styling and dual-sport tires. 

[coldright]

Hey Kit, I know you're considering clubmans, but have you thought about straight bars?  Mine are super comfortable and you still get the look.  I think that clubmans are mostly just a pain in the wrist... but it might not be too bad as long as it's a town rider... Delilah probably won't like it if the new little one gets any of the distance rides. 

[Frankenkit]

Ah- I thought I'd be ok going with 3.25 if the stock tire size was 3.00, as a 90/90 metric tire spans the two sizes.  I have a definite aversion to anything Cheng Shin, having seen first hand how bad their traction and tire quality can be.  If it comes down to it, I'll probably settle for a 100% street tire.

once we have some time, we'll hit it with the heat gun and pb blaster and see what we can do. Regarding the threads, we'll cross that bridge when we get to it.  I'll be kind of sad to have to take apart a running motor, but I guess you've gotta do what you've gotta do.

CO I've actually been looking at the Norman Hyde M-bars... I'll see if we can find them for a decent price. Normally on modern triumphs, they were produced quite awhile, too, in 7/8".
They're like mild cafe bars, with gentler angles and less of a drop.

[coldright]

Nice choice, those are kinda sexy.  And probably kinder on your wrists.

[BeSeeingYou]

How hard have you tried to get the plug out?  On my 750 that sat for 25 years on the #3 I had no luck with a standard ratchet and finally resorted to a two foot breaker bar and even that required a bit of effort till the plug was at least half way out.  It was a bit nerve wracking and I was sure the threads were toast but after the old plug was out the new one went in just fine by hand. 

[Frankenkit]

All I've really tried so far, honestly, was to use the original plug wrench for the bike (btw, how many mm is that? I bought a 20mm deep socket and it's not big enough.  My 650's are only 18mm. ) while the bike was warm.  Then while cold.  Then saturated in PB blaster, after a couple sharp raps with a hammer on the plug wrench to transfer the energy of the hammer blows to the plugs, hopefully breaking some of the electrolytic binding.

ok... I was thinking about this quite a bit while at work.
How to get these plugs out without causing undue damage...
I'm wondering if a practical solution would be to use differing expansion rates to my advantage, not only heating the head, but perhaps even cooling the plug.

Would it be 'a bad idea' to use ice or even maybe dry ice on the plug to cool and contract the steel while using the heat gun to heat and expand the aluminum head?  Would the ice on the plug make it more likely to crack or break off somehow, and how high is this risk?

Am I better off just pulling out a bigger socket and a breaker bar?

[Frankenkit]

If anyone else has tire input, please let me know.  I'm anxious to get some new rubber on this bike, but I'm really unclear right now on what tire sizes will and will not fit.  The only facts I'm going on is that a) the stock sizes are 3.00-19 front and 3.50-18 rear b) Both of those sizes are turning out to be a b*tch to find.

Realistically speaking, I can't afford to put Avons on this bike.  Or most Metzelers, or Pirellis.  I'm a lot closer to the bridgestone spitfire price range, but because I want this bike to be my uber reliable (or at least moreso than the finicky 650) commuter ride, I need tires that will have decent wet weather traction at realistic speeds.  I'll be taking occasional long trips with it (hopefully to the OCF, about 200 mi away, given our route) but I don't intend to go flying down skyline at full tilt.

The bike's going to just have a few sporty touches here, not what anyone would probably think of when they think "cafe" but something comfortable and maybe a little sexy, who knows.

I just pulled the trigger on those M bars.  I'm going to include just a little secret for the people reading this thread.  While the bars are on Feebay for $42, $15 shipping (and one bid) right now, they're also up for $47 (with $15 shipping) Buy It Now from the same people.  Steadfast Cycles, the sellers, have the bars on their site for $45 and only $8 shipping. and these are, supposedly, 'genuine' Norman Hynes M bars in 7/8" which is 'eh' for the triumph community these days who have left metric bars for 1" bars ....for whatever reason.

Regarding the plugs, a quick search yielded this thread which seems like it may be pretty useful.