Topic: anodizing the motor.

[Queeg]

  so has it been done. can it be done.

  i know its a process just like chrome. so it will add to the thickness of parts.

  can it be done safely?
  plug the passeges and cylinders. cover bearing seats.

  the reason i ask is  my neighbor came by and asked why i was painting the motor. he does powerder coating anodizing etc.  now he wants to do a motor for me.
 should i do it?

[Retro Rocket]

I am going to get my pipes ceramic coated and have been thinking about swingarm and fork lowers, maybe even engine parts as well. Interested to find out more. Can you ask the differences between ceramic coating and anodizing.?

Mick

[B.O.X.N.I.F.E.]

The whole motor will have to be submerged in the electrolytic solution, and the process adds thickness to the surface. Can he keep surfaces and passages masked off when submerged?

I have seen small RC motors with anodized heads.

[bucky katt]

i would say that the castings for the engine cases arent a good candidate for anodizing as theyre full of casting flaws, not bad flaws, just cosmetic. powdercoating might be a viable alternative though. you would have to be extra careful about not getting any of the powdercoating media into any passages though. and the surface would have to be extremely clean and oil free.

[Sporkfly]

Anodizing aluminum is a hair different from titanium. Titanium will, because of its own unique properties, shade different colors depending on the electrolyte and current alone. Aluminum doesn't color of its own accord and requires a dye. The surface is etched with an acid solution with a bit of current and then dyed. With titanium it changes the surface metal to a different isotope with electricity (I think that's how it works anyway, it's a similar process to electrolysis on a rusty tank) where aluminum the surface is etched and hit with current to become porous and accept the dye. Well, there are some chemistry bits and bobs to it, but it's foggy knowledge on me right now because it's been a while. I've looked into doing both for another hobby of mine and have a home made titanium/aluminum anodizer that I never got around to assembling. Interesting little tidbit, blue titanium is much more durable than any other color.

So, I'm really rambling, but my point is it might cause less insulation than paint and there is no baking parts involved. If they can do this without hurting your bearing surfaces I say go for it. I think I might have to start my anodizing experiments up again and put the electrical together.

[IHWillys]

I don't expect this would be an issue with most, if not all, aluminum engine parts, but an interesting aspect of anodizing aluminum is the drastic reduction of aluminum's fatigue life due to the anodizing process. 

Ken

[Fritz]

Hi!

I don't have any knowledge about anodizing other than what can be read in Wikipedia, but to me it looks quite interesting.

Some thoughts:
Although anodizing differs from chroming in that there's no material added to the workpiece, the surface of the aluminium becomes porous and adds to the dimensions of the workpiece. Depending on the thickness of the layer, you can expect between 0.005 and 0.03 mm (up to 0.001")
Some aluminium alloys are hard to anodize. This may be the case with the alloy used for casting the crank case.
Since anodizing changes the structure of the surface, maybe it's no a good idea to anodize the bearing journals and gasket surfaces. Perhaps it's possible to cover those surfaces with epoxy or silicone before anodizing. This would also overcome the potential difference of dimensions.

Anodizing seems to be quite inexpensive and it looks like it can be done at home with just some easy to obtain chemicals and a battery charger.

So maybe anyone with more knowledge could confirm that this can be done?

Cheers
Carsten

[the technological J]

do u push ur bike to its limits often? or is it just a cruiser... i think powder coating affects the ability to cool i dont know if the same goes for anodizing... but i kinda think( someone back me up here) as long as ur not taking the motor to the exremes u shouldnt have a problem with cooling.... do u have a color choice or only black?

[754]

Most diecast parts will not look good anodized.. will be splotchy.. Billet, no problem..

[markb]

My opinion, I would not powder coat or anodize engine cases.  I'd be worried about the cooling on the powder coat too.  And I'd be surprised if you could fnd a plater that would anodize your cases.  I tried to find someone who would reanodize my handlebar control pieces and without knowing the exact alloy they wouldn't touch them and even then probably not.  Depending on what they are they could ruin the chemicals in the tanks which would be expensive to clean out and replace and waste their time.  The color is an issue too.  My company does a lot of fabrication with aluminum and cast aluminum plates.  The cast plates especially will come back in different shades and often blotchy too.

[Bodi]

Anodizing is pretty simple, you submerge the aluminum part in an acid bath and run DC current through the bath with the part "+" and a cathode (generally a lead plate) as "-". There are some specifications for the acid strength and current density (amps/square foot of aluminum) that you can find online. Battery acid works fine but may need a bit of dilution.
After the electric acid bath, you wash the part in cold water. The surface will now be a foamy sort of aluminum oxide (you can't see this) with billions of tiny pores: if you soak it in a bath of dye before it dries the dye gets into these pores and colors the surface. To close/seal the pores you soak the part in hot/boiling water for a while. The surface is now a fairly deep hard aluminum oxide layer infused with color.
The surface will rise a bit, so parts get a few thou larger. You can mask areas to not be anodized easily, just paint with something that the acid bath won't attack.
I did anodizing for electronic assembly parts many years ago. STuff made from billet comes out beautiful. Trying it on diecast cases (the little aluminum boxes sold at electronics stores) we got a nasty blotchy finish. This may be because of the alloy or a result of the casting process, I don't know. It may be worth a try, but your cases might look bad.
There's a product called "gun-kote" we also used back then, and I used it on my 400F engine cases. It is a thin liquid you dip in or spray on. Then you heat cure it, in an oven. It smells bad while heat curing, so you should send the wife off to a spa for the day before trying it in the kitchen. The finish is really nice and quite durable, and there are a lot of colors. I used to buy spray cans but now it only comes in pint (or bigger) cans. I don't think it adds much to the surface but masking would be very simple, using masking tape should work. I didn't bother and there are some overspray marks on the transmission bearing bores and such but since I was spraying from cans none got on the main bearing journals. You'd need an awful lot to dip an engine case.

[lrutt]

Best to try it on some old beater covers etc. first. You will see it will look pretty crappy. Especially on the cylinder and heads with the rougher fins.

Really, painting is the best for heat transfer, touch up, and cost. I'd not PC an air cooled motor unless it was just for show.

[mycb750k6]

I subscribe to the Yahoo anodizing forum (anodizing101@yahoogroups.com) . There's a lot going on there. Also look at the site http://www.focuser.com/atm/anodize/anodize.html for good info. I'm going to start anodizing as soon as I get my power supply. It really is simple. As you read this material it becomes clear however that machined parts in the 6000 range aluminum like 6061 anodize easily whereas the aluminum used for casting may not due to the additivesused to make it flow into the castings. Having said that I do intend to try to anodize my switches black again. Needless to say the old anodizing has to come off first.

[MötleyRöx]

Needless to say the old anodizing has to come off first.

That brings up a good question.
How?

[Tham]

Anodizing tends to make aluminum brittle.

I do all my product parts ( i build cameras out of T6061 Aluminum of varying thicknesses) with either Type 2 Class 1/2(regular/black or clear) Or type 3 Class 1/2 (Hard Clear/Black)
All are ammonium etched before anodize.

I also do the same on my sheetmetal (Actually .035/.050/.125 thick aluminum sheet)

I have snapped the sheet metal (all thicknesses) before at the angles when force was applied.

Think about a bearing web or thin flange...wouldn't want to chance it.
Or the mounts.....
It does add a small amount of thickness depending on which treatment used (.00005....to.....001)


There is chem film which adds almost zero thickness & doesn't penetrate the surface changing the properties of the metal it is adhering to.
Usually in gold or clear...I have used that on items that flex...Not as tough as anodize.




Powder coating?...I would worry about heat..But that is just me.

Hope I am being helpful.

[Tham]

Needless to say the old anodizing has to come off first.

That brings up a good question.
How?

They can strip it chemically before reapplying.
I have had to have items redone as I do small to large batches of parts.

I cant tell exactly what is used as it does not effect my bottom line on whether the part was weakened after the process.
So I never looked into it to deeply.

[mycb750k6]

Lye! - aka drain opener. Rubber gloves, eye protection a must. Read anodizing link I including above as it tells you exactly how to get the old anodizing off. These chemicals are nasty so you need to take caution.

[Coulisnosaj]

I've PC the block and it was a mistake, looks cool but runs like s@#$ in warm weather....don't know much about anodizing, but ceramic coating is the way to go, heat transfer is key on  oil cooled bikes...and now they have different colors, they even have chrome, very trick.

[Queeg]

ok then no it is.... this went about three step further than i thought it would..

 so i think ill just paint it for now. maybe down the line on my other bike look into another option

[Yoshi823]

I used to work at a place that did a number of coatings that I could take advantage of. I was advised that only a decent quality of aluminium like Dural (google it) would take to being anodised, & that this process will MELT anything steel. But the quality of the ally on my old 1978 CB750 F2 just was not up to the standards of the material nowadays..I tried it & it didn't take it very well. Such that I had it stove enamelled instead.
I have used Kal-Gard gun kote, header kote & several differant products from this firm in LA...such that when I was working in the area back in 1987 I called into the factory so's to get some more of the stuff. To say that they were surprised to see a limey all the way from London to buy there product left them only too glad to help me. I showed them the pictures & they could see where i'd used the gun kote on the barrels, cylinder head, sump pan, tappet covers, machined down exhaust collet retainers etc.http://www.google.co.uk/search?client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-GB%3Aofficial&channel=s&hl=en&source=hp&q=kal+gard&meta=&btnG=Google+Search
When I wanted to do something colourful to my Exup I looked carefully at which bits that I could have done. The bottom yoke was already done in black, which my local anodising firm said is the better finish on billet material.http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&channel=s&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-GB%3Aofficial&hs=xws&q=anodising&btnG=Search&meta=&aq=f&oq=


The process that was available at my old work place was called aluchrome http://www.finishing.com/259/57.shtml
This was being used on some battle tank components & I was told that it would need to be machined off as it was a harder process than anodising. So I had my engine mount plates & rear caliper bracket done...well it was free.

[bradweingartner]

Most diecast parts will not look good anodized.. will be splotchy.. Billet, no problem..

This man speaks the truth.