Topic: parts aint parts

[KRONUS0100]

just got first batch of parts in for my 74 759k motor.  The new Tsubaki cam chain is massive compared to the wimpy stock chain.  Now my question is..before i order stock primary chains...are there any Heavy Duty Chains available for the bottom end.  Thanks.

[MCRider]

just got first batch of parts in for my 74 759k motor.  The new Tsubaki cam chain is massive compared to the wimpy stock chain.  Now my question is..before i order stock primary chains...are there any Heavy Duty Chains available for the bottom end.  Thanks.

There are, but I hear they are about $400 a pair (or more) vs $90 a pair.

I'd take the new stock ones and have them Cryogenically treated for about $20. Also, buy a new tensioner and beef it up a little with a shim.

[Retro Rocket]

Pm forum member Nippon, he has the heavy duty chains and they are way stronger than stock.

Mick

[KRONUS0100]

McRider...the shim thing is new to me...where and how?  who does the cryo?  I am in Indy.

[MCRider]

McRider...the shim thing is new to me...where and how?  who does the cryo?  I am in Indy.

I stole the shim idea from member Rob at voxonda.com and had Saldana Racing Products in Brownsburg make it. I'll get you a picture.

I use Cryogenics of Indiana. located in Lebanon IN. I'm on NW corner of Indy BTW. "Jeff" from Cryogenics has indulged me by picking up my stuff and delivering it. 317-989-2796 is his cell phone. Don't know if he would do that for everyone. Its been dificult to talk to him lately I know he's swamped with 50 engine blocks and misc parts from some dragracing outfit in Brownsburg. He has a box of my parts, I need to call him.

I don't have anymore to Cryo any time soon, or you could piggy back. Maybe you could just mail him the chains.

[MCRider]

Can't find a picture. Essentially, its a sub-3/16" plate that fits under the spring tang of the tensioner, between it and the base of the tensioner. Cut and drilled to lay flat inside the tensioner, such would be obvious if you look at the tensioner base. It will pre-load the spring and cause the tensioner wheel to apply more pressure to the chains.

BTW, a new tensioner is a must, if yours has any miles at all.

I don't know if the shim will accelerate spring fatigue or not. But it will be quiet for a while.  

[KRONUS0100]

ok...i think i know the place..I used to work at American Ultraviolet in Lebanon.  I plan on replacing everything chain related...already have all the cam chain parts...need the gaskets....rings...and primarys and then i can put back together..hopefully by spring.

[Retro Rocket]

I wonder how much stronger the heavy duty chains would be with the cryo treatment.?

Mick

[MCRider]

I wonder how much stronger the heavy duty chains would be with the cryo treatment.?

Mick

Jeff at Cryo of Indy told me to expect 150%+. And less friction. But I don't know if anyone knows for sure. I'll try to pin him down with facts next time I see him. Even 125% is enough for me.

I'm speculating here but from what I've read, if i was to be asked, I'd say the strength comes not from the material, obviously its the same material but from the realignment of molecules.

The HD chains have better, thicker material, but still have mixed up molecules.

So anything virtually can be improved with Cryo.

[gtyler5]

satanicmechanic just put a washer under the tensioner to lift it up a bit, I did it on my 750K.. not as professional as a shim 

[Retro Rocket]

I wonder how much stronger the heavy duty chains would be with the cryo treatment.?

Mick

Jeff at Cryo of Indy told me to expect 150%+. And less friction. But I don't know if anyone knows for sure. I'll try to pin him down with facts next time I see him. Even 125% is enough for me.

I'm speculating here but from what I've read, if i was to be asked, I'd say the strength comes not from the material, obviously its the same material but from the realignment of molecules.

The HD chains have better, thicker material, but still have mixed up molecules.

So anything virtually can be improved with Cryo.

Thanks MC...very interesting. What sort of cost, i assume its not that expensive because of the amount of parts you are getting  done .?


Mick

[MCRider]

I wonder how much stronger the heavy duty chains would be with the cryo treatment.?

Mick

Jeff at Cryo of Indy told me to expect 150%+. And less friction. But I don't know if anyone knows for sure. I'll try to pin him down with facts next time I see him. Even 125% is enough for me.

I'm speculating here but from what I've read, if i was to be asked, I'd say the strength comes not from the material, obviously its the same material but from the realignment of molecules.

The HD chains have better, thicker material, but still have mixed up molecules.

So anything virtually can be improved with Cryo.

Thanks MC...very interesting. What sort of cost, i assume its not that expensive because of the amount of parts you are getting  done .?


Mick

Its so cheap I hate to repeat it as the guy should really raise his rates. Its like $100 per 20lbs. I'm up to about $300.

Here's a price sheet I ran across in my research.  
http://www.onecryo.com/motorsport-imssept98.htm

I hope my guy never charges this much.

Here's a good site as well. Scroll down for pricing;  
 
http://www.nitrofreeze.com/racing.html

[MCRider]

satanicmechanic just put a washer under the tensioner to lift it up a bit, I did it on my 750K.. not as professional as a shim 

That would work, too. But I think lifting the tang of the spring while leaving the base of the tensioner flat on the case, is the more elegant aproach.

[wannabridin]

i wish someone here could do some real testing on cryo'd vs. stock parts.  i'm not talking about tensile testing, but mocking the real world conditions like whats inside the motor and what the parts really go through...

i'm thinking of having a lot of my engine internals cryo'd with "Jeff" as i think i can get a nice box of stuff together.  this is after i have some parts shot peened as well from MReick

[MCRider]

If I were building something with 90+ hp and 10K+ RPMs, I'd be tempted to buy Nippon's HD chains and have them Cryod. Then talk to someone here about a tensioner on the top of the case (I've heard rumors).

[MCRider]

i wish someone here could do some real testing on cryo'd vs. stock parts.  i'm not talking about tensile testing, but mocking the real world conditions like whats inside the motor and what the parts really go through...

i'm thinking of having a lot of my engine internals cryo'd with "Jeff" as i think i can get a nice box of stuff together.  this is after i have some parts shot peened as well from MReick

The testimonials in the links I provided are pretty strong.

In the heat of a racing season, its pretty hard to get someone to do objective testing, granted.

Don't hold me to that pricing, it's not my shop and he is obviously low.

An article: No conclusions, but good info:

http://www.nitrofreeze.com/RETP3034Cryo.pdf

[gtyler5]

so if you had the valves and guides cryo'ed would it help with the F3 valve train issues?

[MCRider]

so if you had the valves and guides cryo'ed would it help with the F3 valve train issues?

Well, the story is, stronger and slicker. How much and in particuilar situations, who knows?  And what my guy is recommending the Cryo should be done before anything else, like machining, reaming, grinding etc.

[bucky katt]

once i get ready to start putting the "big" motor together, i'll be getting a bunch of stuff cryo treated. you have me convinced MCRider

[MCRider]

once i get ready to start putting the "big" motor together, i'll be getting a bunch of stuff cryo treated. you have me convinced MCRider

I got the idea from Mystic (or Ecosse), it was news to me.