Author Topic: Zen and the Art  (Read 1718 times)

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Rocking-M

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Zen and the Art
« on: January 06, 2010, 03:23:41 PM »
okay, I think there was a thread on here once about the book,
"Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance"

I read it for the first time last spring or was it last fall. I forget.
Now, I'm reading the thing again, because there is no way to get it
with just one reading. It will probably take 19 for me.

How many have read it? Let the Zen wars begin.

Offline mystic_1

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Re: Zen and the Art
« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2010, 03:43:14 PM »
"The only Zen you can find on the tops of mountains is the Zen you bring up there."
- Robert M. Pirsig

:D

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Rocking-M

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Re: Zen and the Art
« Reply #2 on: January 06, 2010, 04:00:55 PM »
"The only Zen you can find on the tops of mountains is the Zen you bring up there."
- Robert M. Pirsig

:D

mystic_1

 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Offline sangyo soichiro

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Re: Zen and the Art
« Reply #3 on: January 06, 2010, 04:50:30 PM »
I read it.  I will likely read it again soon.  If I remember correctly, it was more Zen than motorcycle maintenance.  And he mentions "quality" a lot.   :)
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Offline Kevin D

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Re: Zen and the Art
« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2010, 04:57:56 PM »
6 parts Zen, 3 parts travel log, 1 part motorcycle maintenance mostly in chapter 26.
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Offline Duke McDukiedook

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Re: Zen and the Art
« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2010, 05:20:40 PM »
Not much zen or maintenence when I read it.
More philosiphy and narrative than anything else.
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Offline Uncle Ernie

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Re: Zen and the Art
« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2010, 05:41:10 PM »
It took me a couple of tries.  I thought I should.  Now I realize it's a decent study of one man's butter slipping off his noodle.  I'd rather document my own...

-but it's time for me to realize no one will read my musings after I'm dead.  Your kids are going to miss out, too.


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Rocking-M

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Re: Zen and the Art
« Reply #7 on: January 06, 2010, 05:59:30 PM »
UE, a documentation of your noodle slipping on the butter would be a great read for future generations. You must begin to write it
now. I can help with the spelling you know.

BTW, what is that picture, looks like something I saw in the early 70's when I was in an altered state of mind.

Offline MCRider

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Re: Zen and the Art
« Reply #8 on: January 06, 2010, 06:24:40 PM »
UE, a documentation of your noodle slipping on the butter would be a great read for future generations. You must begin to write it
now. I can help with the spelling you know.

BTW, what is that picture, looks like something I saw in the early 70's when I was in an altered state of mind.

Butter, noodles...ummmm, drool

Pirsig was offered a movie several times, once by Robert Redford. Could never settle on a screenplay. He told his wife to sell it to hollywood when he dies. That's her inheritance.
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Offline Spanner 1

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Re: Zen and the Art
« Reply #9 on: January 06, 2010, 06:39:18 PM »
I thought he ( Pirsig ) was mostly an arrogant git with his 'amateur' philosophising and slating anyone who didn't have the interest to figure-out or work on any of their mechanical 'toys'. Some people have no interest in mech. #$%*, their brains are not wired that way. Doesn't mean their less Zen....typical baby-boomer stuff/attitude....!!
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Offline Duke McDukiedook

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Re: Zen and the Art
« Reply #10 on: January 06, 2010, 06:46:36 PM »
I don't know, I kind of agreed with him there- everyone should have some basic knowledge of how your vehicle runs and how to perform basic maintenance on it.

It can save you some $$$ in the long run and gives you that sweet zen feeling.
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MötleyRöx

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Re: Zen and the Art
« Reply #11 on: January 06, 2010, 06:47:26 PM »
I need to read it a second time.  
Is there a documented count for the word Quality?   :D

Offline Nikkisixx

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Re: Zen and the Art
« Reply #12 on: January 06, 2010, 07:30:54 PM »
Yeah, I've read it and agree it is a boomer buttered noodle self indulgence.  Tim Allen delivers a better narrative that explores philosophy in his book "I'm not really here". 
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Offline Zaipai

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Re: Zen and the Art
« Reply #13 on: January 06, 2010, 07:43:55 PM »
Yeah, I've read it and agree it is a boomer buttered noodle self indulgence.  Tim Allen delivers a better narrative that explores philosophy in his book "I'm not really here". 
Good you all just saved me some reading time!  ;D
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Offline Uncle Ernie

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Re: Zen and the Art
« Reply #14 on: January 06, 2010, 08:45:59 PM »
Mr. M., that is indeed from the mid-70's.  I have several from a young lady who cranked these silkscreens out and then disappeared.  A terrific artist, IMO.  She just gave them away to people.

As far as writing goes, I suppose I identify with Vennegut's Elliot Rosewater whose favorite poem was,
"Here I sit, broken hearted.
Camr to s***, but only farted."

In that vein, one of my personal favorites was a print ad for Scott tissue;
full page, small beauty shot in limbo with small shadow for placement.
Filling the page in extra bold type;  "Would you rather squeeze the Charmin, or pinch your pennies?"  (maybe you had to be there... ?)

So, back to this book.  Someone seemed to resent his amateur philosophy. 
I would like to propose that all the best philosophical cogitation is amateur.  When it becomes professional, it's just re-organizing of other people's writing- no?  It seems to me original thought HAS to come from amateurs.

It's interesting also that peopple rarely take the book as a whole, but focus on the first half.  I suppose that's because that's the part that makes sense.  As motorcycle riders, we can identify with it.  I actually know people who really would not use shim material cut from a soda can. 
For out-of-body recording of constantly wondering if you turned the stove off, I really really liked The Accidental Tourist.  That book I learned a lot from. 
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Rocking-M

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Re: Zen and the Art
« Reply #15 on: January 07, 2010, 02:15:37 PM »
well Mr. E. that's one nice silk screen!

Back to the book, your assessment of "Amateur Philosophy" is spot on in my opinion.

"I would like to propose that all the best philosophical cogitation is amateur.  When it becomes professional, it's just re-organizing of other people's writing- no?  It seems to me original thought HAS to come from amateurs."

Well said!

In the same vein I'd like to add, psychology is promoted, defined and practiced by amateurs.
Or, it is practiced on sane people by crazy people. Take your pick.

oh had to come back and add,
your absolutely correct on the first half versus the whole book. Many folks I've had responses from on this book on another motorcycle list said, "I never could get past half way in the book". To me the book really took on more meaning in the second half.
I already know how to work on a damn motorcycle so I wasn't reading it for that.  ;)
« Last Edit: January 07, 2010, 03:30:38 PM by Rocking-M »

Offline Uncle Ernie

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Re: Zen and the Art
« Reply #16 on: January 07, 2010, 06:16:54 PM »
There is a theory that people who go into psychology and/or the ministry do so in an unconscious attempt to resolve their own problems.  My father was a Prebyterian minister and professional counselor;  I agree.  he died hating his mother who had died many years before!   ???    ;D
Supposedly, ex-drug addicts make the best drug counselors.  I'm pretty sure the same can be said of a good rent-a-friend.  I need to think about how similar philosophy and psychology may be.  I hadn't really considered what you said up there before.

I'm thinking...

Well- this could be a long talk.  I'm thinking maybe they're not so similar, though.  Seems like one deals in theories more, and the other tries to deal with defining the here and now.  Not talking about Freud or Nietzsche now- no dream stuff (well- maybe a sprinkle of Jung)- just rolling on the rug fighting denial and fears kind of things.


Boy- the more I think, the more grey area comes along.  How might Phenominology fit in here NOW?!  (hahahahahahaha!)  I can't see what I'm typing now.  It's all below this dumb screen and bouncing up and down.  Kiss your lovely wife and kids for me- signing off at this time.
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Offline westondc

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Re: Zen and the Art
« Reply #17 on: January 08, 2010, 07:24:04 AM »
I'm reading the book for the 2nd time right now. i gave a copy to my brother for Christmas and i figured id brushup on it in case he asks me any questions about Pirsing's value and quality philosophy. the first half reads rather easily but when it gets deeper into the metaphysics of quality its hard to grasp what the authors getting at without rereading some areas. i thought the chautauqua movement that Pirsing mentions was really interesting. its a shame that those chautauquas didn't continue through today, i guess they had to move aside for our more modern mind numbing TV programming.

my friend is into audio books and told me to try this book on CD. after some searching i found it in MP3 for free. i highly recommend using the audio book. I'll see if i can locate the link to the mp3.
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Offline sangyo soichiro

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Re: Zen and the Art
« Reply #18 on: August 09, 2011, 01:15:19 PM »
It took me a couple of tries.  I thought I should.  Now I realize it's a decent study of one man's butter slipping off his noodle.  I'd rather document my own...

-but it's time for me to realize no one will read my musings after I'm dead.  Your kids are going to miss out, too.

Not true, Ernie.
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« Last Edit: August 15, 2011, 10:15:52 AM by sangyo soichiro »
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Offline Rocking-M

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Re: Zen and the Art
« Reply #19 on: August 13, 2011, 04:29:41 AM »
well having now read it the second time, Uncle Ernie was right on the money.

to quote Paul again,

"It took me a couple of tries.  I thought I should.  Now I realize it's a decent study of one man's butter slipping off his noodle.  I'd rather document my own...

-but it's time for me to realize no one will read my musings after I'm dead.  Your kids are going to miss out, too."

You kids need to go back through all the forums that Uncle Ernie frequented and read all his musings.
More worthwhile and entertaining than the Zen motorcycle musings.
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