Topic: ideal temperature for painting

[bucky katt]

what would the ideal air temperature be for laying down a laquer with the spraymax 2k clearcoat? and what temps COULD i paint in with extended curing time?

[ColinMc]

Once you get below 60 degrees...things slow WAY down as far as dry times go...I've painted in the 40's...that's what I did my winter beater truck in but with a clear coat that dries in 15 minutes normally.(speed clear)

Lacquer is a different beast though so I can speak much for that...the good news is you won't have to worry about it blushing on you. The bad news is the spraymax clear coat will take a LONG time to dry.

Ideal is 70-75 degrees. If you can get it above 50 and get the parts warmed up to above 50, paint them let things flash over, then bring stuff in your basement or something to cure in warmer temps that could work. I've done that for small parts before. Nothing sucks worse than dropping a side cover you just painted as you walk down your basement stairs though lol.

[manjisann]

When I was painting with catalyzed paints over the summer, it seems to me that the low end was 65F. The best advice (from me at least) is to read the instructions and follow them. I know, not super helpful, but it's what I got

Brandon

[rostosky750]

You cannot get it hot enough bro, seriously, I am a time served sprayer. Your enemies are cold, damp, humidity. Your friends are dry heat, absolute cleanliness in all things, and 99% preparation.  When you go to put on the paint, If you have the parts to be sprayed say suspended at approx your waist height, at the very last minute, the very very last, swill some water on the floor under and around your work area.. that will stop any dust from circulating....believe me we used to run a paraffin space heater while we sprayed, Have it as hot as you can stand without passing out... wear a head band to stop any sweat dripping from your forehead onto the work..and do yourself a favour and wear a proper mask , not just a paper filter. If you need any help or tips pm me I would be glad to help out. Just done my CB 750 K2 tank candy gold custom and in the UK it's almost impossible to source the colours, but i did it!

[bucky katt]

they've told me a minimum of 60 degrees. looks like i'll be riding around on a plain white gelcoated airtech tail till spring.

[ColinMc]

Yeah and Rostosky750 is right to some degree about warmth...but getting it too hot...that's a little insane. Yeah it'll dry quicker...but why go through that kind of trouble when 70 degrees or so is perfectly fine. The paint flows a lot better at that temp too.

Not to mention since you are using a Lacquer base coat heat CAN be your enemy. It'll blush if it dries too quick. Clear won't flow out properly initially...all sorts of problems.

There is a reason they say the ideal temp is around 70 degrees and low humidity...baking parts afterwards yeah that does wonders for full cure. The initial flash you want to happen at a natural speed though or solvents can get trapped...solvent pop can happen...colors/clears won't flow like they should...That and why sweat your balls off when you don't have to lol.

I'm not trying to attack your statements Rostosky, but that's just going a little over the top.

[rostosky750]

Try "suiting up"  with one piece overalls taped at the gloves and neck and trouser bottoms, then put a "real" mask on, then a hairnet or other to stop stray hairs then pull the hood up...and you will find just like I said, that as hot as you can stand it is not in reality too hot, You need to understand just how hot it is in the correct gear to start with to understand this analogy.
But I have been doing this for 30 years.

[ColinMc]

I fully suit up every time I paint and agree, but I didn't want him to get his garage at 90 then put a paintsuit on and get heat stroke or something. I must have misread your post before then assuming you meant that you gotta get it super hot in the garage when you said that the hotter you can get it the better. 70 is more than enough, hell i've done overall paint jobs on cars/trucks at 60 with no problems just using faster reducers/hardeners.

I understand where you are coming from...and i've only been doing it for 10 years am ASE certified out the wazoo for paint stuff and whatnot, but I just don't want him to think that getting crazy high temperatures is needed. Yeah heat is nice, but there is such a thing as overkill.

[grumburg]

Humidity is also very important. Anything more than 60% risks blushing no matter what the temperature. Especially black.

[ColinMc]

Humidity is also very important. Anything more than 60% risks blushing no matter what the temperature. Especially black.

Agreed, too hot and too humid spell disaster with Lacquers especially

[MötleyRöx]

they've told me a minimum of 60 degrees. looks like i'll be riding around on a plain white gelcoated airtech tail till spring.

Primer it... and sand it down in the spring!
Besides, primer rides are just cool.   

[shawnm]

Do you need a special primer or adhesion spray for the plastic side panels? I've sprayed on ABS plastic before, but I don't know what those 70's side panels are made of.

[MötleyRöx]

You could get away with just about anything, if the purpose of the primer is for protection until spring.
The prep in the spring is what will matter, so most, if not every bit, of primer will be sanded off.

Edit:  I just realized I wasn't responding to Bucky... I would defer to the paint and topcoat recommendations and compatibility, then it needs to have good adhesion to plastic.   Does that make sense?

[Duke McDukiedook]

About 60 F is probably the lowest you really want to apply any of this stuff, but reading the labels on the cans never hurts.

[bucky katt]

Do you need a special primer or adhesion spray for the plastic side panels? I've sprayed on ABS plastic before, but I don't know what those 70's side panels are made of.

i just used regular primer for mine, one original and one new LPM cover. 60 degrees is nothing but a dream for at lest 6 or 7 more weeks. i'll ride it as is, it'll look funny with the painted tank, frame and side covers. it runs good and thats all that really matters right now

[Rocking-M]

lacquer I really like because, you can buff most anything out.

I sprayed quite a bit even below 60 but a run is more likely because it slows the drying down and speeds the
build up to a certain extent. Blushing is possible with high humidity but it's got to be pretty much raining outside to
get it and that's what lacquer retarder is made for. Slows the drying down and allows the moisture to escape that is.

I sprayed lacquer on furniture and cars for about 10 years. Wear that mask.

oh yea, if you get a run, wipe it off with your finger right then, sanding one out tends to
leave a thin spot on the edges of the run. To get that great shine water sand (color sand) with 600 and buff it out.
I know 600 sounds harsh in this day and age but lacquer is a softer finish and it will buff out fine (at least the old stuff).

Even with out clear coat you can make a lacquer job look like a mirror in a jiffy. Be careful with the lacquer clear coats.
I remember seeing a car that had like 12 coats of clear (show car in the 70's) and you guessed it, spider web city in
less than a year. And the thing is, a well buffed job without clear has as deep a look as the clear gives, but, fading is
prone to happen more quickly without the clear on a lacquer job that sits outside all the time. Clear tends to yellow over the
years so it's a trade off in my opinion.

[bucky katt]

lacquer I really like because, you can buff most anything out.

I sprayed quite a bit even below 60 but a run is more likely because it slows the drying down and speeds the
build up to a certain extent. Blushing is possible with high humidity but it's got to be pretty much raining outside to
get it and that's what lacquer retarder is made for. Slows the drying down and allows the moisture to escape that is.

I sprayed lacquer on furniture and cars for about 10 years. Wear that mask.

oh yea, if you get a run, wipe it off with your finger right then, sanding one out tends to
leave a thin spot on the edges of the run. To get that great shine water sand (color sand) with 600 and buff it out.
I know 600 sounds harsh in this day and age but lacquer is a softer finish and it will buff out fine (at least the old stuff).

Even with out clear coat you can make a lacquer job look like a mirror in a jiffy. Be careful with the lacquer clear coats.
I remember seeing a car that had like 12 coats of clear (show car in the 70's) and you guessed it, spider web city in
less than a year. And the thing is, a well buffed job without clear has as deep a look as the clear gives, but, fading is
prone to happen more quickly without the clear on a lacquer job that sits outside all the time. Clear tends to yellow over the
years so it's a trade off in my opinion.

the duplicolor paints i did the tank/covers/frame in is a lacquer but not even a little fuel resistant. after much communication with the spraymax people, i have found that their 2k2 clear can be applied over it. the duplicolor paint LOOKS good but i need fuel resitance.

[Rocking-M]

ah ha, I get it now. I'm kinda slow.  I remember the ole Chevy Truck lacquers from 72 with the faded
spot under the fuel tank filler. In that case, for all my stuff now a days I use base coat clears. And I've sprayed
that below 60 degrees and talk about easy to run. 

[Retro Rocket]

Try "suiting up"  with one piece overalls taped at the gloves and neck and trouser bottoms, then put a "real" mask on, then a hairnet or other to stop stray hairs then pull the hood up...and you will find just like I said, that as hot as you can stand it is not in reality too hot, You need to understand just how hot it is in the correct gear to start with to understand this analogy.
But I have been doing this for 30 years.

I agree, it is quite common to spray in 90+ degrees in Aus, the big no no is humidity. You can also add "accelerator" to the paint to speed up curing times in colder weather.

Mick

[rostosky750]

Absolutely to Australia......spray in the heat AND use accelerants...most class body shops have ovens , I worked at dorman/smith on the damn production line spraying before I went into vehicle refinishing and It is very hot in the oven indeed ..how do I know that? Because I was so #$%*e at keeping up spraying thousands of different shaped parts on their "coat hangers" on the production line in the spray shop that I often ended up in the entrance to the oven chasing my own tail to keep up....but once they were in the oven it was all over and I had lost. I learned to be faster in the first place, point is you aint gonna get your garage as hot as an oven.How to stop yourself getting crazing or "cracking" in paint or laquer used on fibreglass over time (this is one for side panels and tail pieces) use a "plasticiser" in your mix, it is expensive, but it does what it says on the tin/bottle it keeps the paint flexible so is especially great for fairings that obviously flex in the wind and at speed, and side panels because they are flexed every time you take them off or put them on.
You aint got any worries about "blooming" or "Blushing" (Two very different defects allthough similar in appearence)  if you use dry heat, its moisture in the one and slow drying in the other that are the causes. They are both defects that can be avoided by adequate dry heat.

[bucky katt]

i'm going to try and heat up my little redneck, homebuilt paint booth (2x4's and 4 super thick, clear tarps) with a space heater and my bank of big halogen work lights so i can get the paint and clear onto the airtech seat and the spraymax clear onto the tank and side covers, i know it doesnt REALLY matter since this is by no means a show bike but after working on it 2 years i want it to look like it.

[grumburg]

I have used SEM "Trim Clear" as a base before painting with very good results on plastic side covers. Made for flexible bumper covers. Spray several coats, let dry, wet sand, paint.  My 550 side covers look like the day they were done 4 years ago.

[rostosky750]

Don't forget to switch off your space heater just before you go on with the paint, and wait for the fumes to clear before you put it back on again, some solvents are flammable .........If you are using Tarps buckykat..I take it they are for a makeshift roof?? Make sure there is no snow or ice on them on the OUTSIDE , as this will cause condensation to drip on the INSIDE, I dont quite know why this happens but it does, I had a nightmare winter once, much to cold to spray in a barn in the country side that I rented, and every time I put the space heater on condensation dripped from tarp "roof" on to the car bodywork I was prepping...when I looked outside there was ice on top of the tarps....

[bucky katt]

Don't forget to switch off your space heater just before you go on with the paint, and wait for the fumes to clear before you put it back on again, some solvents are flammable .........If you are using Tarps buckykat..I take it they are for a makeshift roof?? Make sure there is no snow or ice on them on the OUTSIDE , as this will cause condensation to drip on the INSIDE, I dont quite know why this happens but it does, I had a nightmare winter once, much to cold to spray in a barn in the country side that I rented, and every time I put the space heater on condensation dripped from tarp "roof" on to the car bodywork I was prepping...when I looked outside there was ice on top of the tarps....

the whole thing bolts together. i built it with portability in mind. i have walls, roof and floor in the clear tarps. and yes, i'll pull the heater and work lights out before i start painting. between the lights, heater and the clear-ish plastic tarps there will be plenty of heat. after the paint has hardened a bit, i'll cart everything inside, out it all on my desk under the heat vent and lock the cats out of the office. and i have a good respirator, i got it looking and smelling like new at a local pawn shop where i get alot of my specialty tools. i've wet sanded the tank and sidecovers with 800, 1500, then 2000. as soon as the spraymax clear gets here i'll shoot everything with clear. this is by no means going to be a show bike. the paint isnt perfect, there are a few scratches on the front downtubes from when i put the header on, some deep-ish dings on the fork sliders that wouldnt sand out before i polished. what this is, is a decent looking daily rider. it will not be pampered, it will be ridden daily in all kinds of weather. i built fuzzycycle to be halfway nice looking but not something i'd be afraid of riding in the rain.

[grcamna2]

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