Author Topic: Steel Vs. Bronze Vs. Etc... Bushings  (Read 9790 times)

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Offline Simpson

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Steel Vs. Bronze Vs. Etc... Bushings
« on: January 07, 2010, 02:04:38 PM »
What is the difference in performance comparing bronze, steel, brass or plastic?

Why does bronze seem to be the choice material to make the swing arm bushings?
« Last Edit: January 07, 2010, 02:19:14 PM by Simpson »
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Offline MCRider

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Re: Steel Vs. Bronze Vs. Etc... Bushings
« Reply #1 on: January 07, 2010, 02:18:19 PM »
What is the difference in performance comparing bronze, steel, brass or plastic?

Why does bronze seem to be the choice material to make the swing arm bushing?
HondaMan can tell you the technicals. I can tell you what I've learned from HondaMan.

(If I'm wrong, blame the student) Steel rusts, brass is crass (?), plastic is plastic, leaving bronze.  Oil impregnated (oilite) high quality bronze is hard to beat. HondaMan gives his setup a lifetime guarantee.

Aftermarket bronze bushings are better than stock, but there are still details of our setup to be addressed. Sizing the bushing for the "collar" and the swingarm tube, lubrication (which is poor on the stock setup), etc.

This from an amateur.

Something to read while the experts come around to post.

Some comments in here:
http://1632.org/1632tech/faqs/mach-bearing.html

and here:     http://www.mechanicsupport.com/bearingsandbushings.html
« Last Edit: January 07, 2010, 02:32:36 PM by MCRider »
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Offline Simpson

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Re: Steel Vs. Bronze Vs. Etc... Bushings
« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2010, 02:22:53 PM »
My guess is plastic and brass might be to malleable? But, I'm just guessing...
Hoping the guru's step in here and add some wisdom.
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Offline Duke McDukiedook

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Re: Steel Vs. Bronze Vs. Etc... Bushings
« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2010, 03:44:18 PM »
Plastic and brass are not as durable (toughness) as steel or bronze.
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Offline bucky katt

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Re: Steel Vs. Bronze Vs. Etc... Bushings
« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2010, 04:17:02 PM »
i have been thinking lately about machining a chunk of delrin into bushings, see how that works.
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Offline jaguar

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Re: Steel Vs. Bronze Vs. Etc... Bushings
« Reply #5 on: July 19, 2010, 06:07:57 AM »
would delrin 150 be ok for a swing arm for a  lighter bike?

Offline Steve F

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Re: Steel Vs. Bronze Vs. Etc... Bushings
« Reply #6 on: July 19, 2010, 06:40:07 AM »
Here's some info from a previous post:
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=49037.0

Offline HondaMan

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Re: Steel Vs. Bronze Vs. Etc... Bushings
« Reply #7 on: July 19, 2010, 07:04:49 AM »
Those of you who have my book can find this stuff in the Suspension chapter...  :D

Steel bushings make a steel-on-steel bearing surface, which is a huge no-no in the world of rotating bearings. Machinery's Handbook covers this is painful detail. Why Honda has chosen, since the 1990s, to provide steel bushings is beyond me, but they do: the result is about 5000 miles of collar life in these arms. I get many arms for rebuild that have these bushings and ravaged collars.

Phenolic was Honda's primary choice, once they quit using the terrible Zamac plastic composite in the K0/K1/K2 750 and the CB500. It is easy to machine, but gets squishy-soft over time from the grease and makes the bike handle loosely.

Bearing bronze like SAE660 (this is the kind you find for sale now and then) is nice and hard, and easy to machine. But, it requires lube at the same 3000 mile interval that the phenolic does, and does not forgive you if you stretch that interval very far. Racers often use this stuff.

Oilite (841 bronze) is very hard (for improved handling), and fairly easy to machine. It was created to run on steel shafts (like the Honda collars) with either oil for high-speed use (like in fan bearings) or grease in lower-speed, impact use (like our swingarms). It contains oil in the metal (it's a metal powder material, fused in high heat, porous) that comes to the surface if the bearing gets above 150 degrees F or so. This allows some forgiveness in our situations, where we might be on a long tour and are stretching the grease interval on the arm. Once the oil has started to ooze out, it softens the nearby grease again and helps us out. When you regrease and ride, the heat lets the oil from the new grease soak back into the matrix for the next time.  ;)
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