Topic: Mass RMV lost my M

[gmonkey]

My dumb story:

When I moved to Massachusetts, I went to the RMV to get my out of state license transferred.  Get home, realised they forgot to transfer my motorcycle endorsement over.  Just the regular car license.  Go back a week later, tell them they made a mistake.  They took a note and told me they'd fax in a correction.

That was a bit over two years ago now.  Needless to say, i still just have that car license.  I wasn't exactly on the edge of my seat expecting this license correction to show up at my door so I haven't been going back to the RMV once a week to see how it's going either.  I've been having a bit of a rough time for a while (nothing I want to talk about) so motorcycles haven't been my top priority.  I think I called the RMV once about a year ago and told them the situation and they said I'd have to come in in person.  I figured if I ever decided to get a bike I'd just have to get the learner's permit and take the license tests again.

Naturally I decided to get a bike.  Also decided to take a shot at getting my license corrected.  So I call up the RMV hotline end of last november.  After an hour and a half on hold, I get through to someone, tell her my story and get laughed at.  "Yes, it's kinda funny.  Is there anything I can do."  She says they'll have to pull my file but she'll send them a note.  I'll get a call within a week.

Week goes by.  No call.  Not surprised, it's Thanksgiving week.  Call again.  About an hour on hold, I get forwarded to the customer service bureau and get their direct number.  They'll have to pull my file.  I'm to expect a call within two weeks.  

That was start of December last year.  No call.  Not surprised, it's holiday season.  Call again last Tuesday directly to the customer service bureau.  2 minutes on hold and someone picks up (and here I got all comfortable).  Tell her my sad sad story.  Who did I talk to?  Don't know.  No one's there, it's lunch hour.  Someone will call me back tomorow.  Ok, thanks.

No calls the next day.  Not surprised, it's Wednesday.  Call them the day after (ie today).  Talk to the same person as Tuesday (I wrote down her name.  I'm a sneaky bastard.)  She actually goes and looks stuff up for me.  Thank you, ma'am.  Turns out, when I went to the RMV a week after they lost my M, they actually did fax in a report.  There's a record of it happening.  Problem is, it wasn't acted on.  They were supposed to contact me or send me a bill for the extra license transfer charge and get it transferred over but it didn't happen.  Oh well.  Why?  Couldn't say.  Oh yeah and the licensing office says since it's been two years so you'll have to take the tests again.  Can I speak to this office, please?  Just a moment.

It's been two years, you'll have to take the tests again.  Even though I don't have the motorcycle endorsement on my license because the RMV made two mistakes in one week and had I gotten it then I wouldn't have had to renew it since whether I rode a motorcycle or not so I'm not missing any fees and I'm not arguing about having to pay the new license issue fee?  I wouldn't know anything about that, it's been two years, you'll have to take the test again.  You may file a dispute with the registrar.

Call the registrar.  Tell them I want to file a dispute and all of this shtuff I typed out above (minus the sarcasm and creative wording).  If the licensing office says you have to take the tests again, then you have to take the tests again.  Even though I don't have the motorcycle endorsement on my license because the RMV made two mistakes in one week and had I gotten it then I wouldn't have had to renew it since whether I rode a motorcycle or not so I'm not missing any fees and I'm not arguing about having to pay the new license issue fee?  Yes.

So I'm thinking (which usually leads to trouble for me one way or another) that my next move is to call the customer service bureau again and ask WHY specifically I have to take the tests again after two years.  If there's a specific regulation that says there's a statute of limitations on correcting the RMV's mistakes I'm all set but I get the feeling they're just blowing me off.  I think I just really enjoy how excited everyone that works at the RMV call center sounds to be receiving a call.  On the other hand, maybe I should just go take the permit test before they somehow lose my car endorsement and I'm left with just a Mass ID that lets me buy beer.  Anyone have any relevant knowledge or experience?

As a disclaimer, when I make these calls, I'm polite.  I don't start yelling at them since I'm sure they get plenty of that as is and it won't help my cause.  I always feel really stupid about having been polite and I don't think them getting railed on by a-hole customers excuses how they're treating this thing but I'm polite.

EDIT:  what's a statue of limitations?

[Duke McDukiedook]

Yeah, they have you by the balls, not much you can do but take the test again.

Ahhhh... unsympathetic bureaucracy 

You think this is bad, try asking ANYONE a question at Missouri's unemployment office why your claim got denied because the idiot HR person at work didn't realise the company only paid unemployment insurance in Kansas. I would have gone down there with loaded guns if you could find a physical address for the call center here in KC. 

[Ecosse]

a little belated, but... welcome to massachusetts!

 

[mick750F]

   According to their policy you should only have to take a learner's permit test in order to get your endorsement back.

   #2 here...


Transactions > Class M Out-of-State License Conversion > Testing Requirements and Information
   
Out-of-State (49 Other States or District of Columbia)

1.  If the customer’s license is valid or expired for less than one year, he/she does not need to meet any driving skills requirements. (See below for possible exceptions.)

2.  If the customer’s license is expired for more than one year, but less than four years, he/she must take a learner’s permit exam. (See below for possible additional requirements.)

3.  If the customer’s license is expired more than four years, he/she must take a learner’s permit exam and a road test (the road test will be waived if the customer completes a Massachusetts Rider Education Program course).  This is the equivalent of applying for a new Massachusetts Class M permit.

In addition to the requirements listed above, if the customer is either under the age of 18 or does not have his/her out-of-state license, he/she must present a certified copy of a driving record not more than 30 days old.

If the customer is under the age of 18, he/she must also either convert his/her out-of-state driver’s education certificate or complete a driver’s education course in Massachusetts.
   
   From their site...

https://secure.rmv.state.ma.us/PolicyBrowserPublic/PolicyBrowser.aspx?turl=WordDocuments/Transactions/classdoutofstatelicenseconversion.htm

   But let me ask you this? If they never transferred the M endorsement is it possible that you are still licensed for it in MD? Then you could just apply for a transfer...again. 

   You might find a sympathetic ear at the registry but I kinda doubt it. They are understaffed and notoriously cranky. Your best bet might be a personal appearance at the main branch though at this point how much more time do you want to put into it?

Good luck, Mike

[Alan F.]

Rule #1 always go in person.
Rule #2 if they tell you no, go to another branch and ask again.
Rule #3 bring lots of cash or your checkbook, don't expect them to accept plastic.
Rule #4 always research the subject on the web and ask around.

if it's been a while since you've ridden maybe a MSF course would be useful? 
-Alan

[gmonkey]

Thanks for the replies.  This is definitely nothing compared to getting something like an unemployment claim sorted out but I do want my license back without having to go through the whole thing of getting a new one.

Mike, good find.  Don't know that it applies directly but i'll give it a shot.

Alan, right on all points but the branch isn't the holdup.  If i go to a branch, they take a note and fax it over to the license office which doesn't want to hear it and I never even hear back from them.  Unless that specific office sees people in person at the main Chinatown location, I don't think it matters who I ask in person.  Or am I missing something crucial in which case please correct me.  And you are correct, the MSF course would probably not hurt but at this point it's more of a getting my license back sort of thing. 

I took the MSF course in IL when I first got my license.  The course is free there but it's a hassle trying to get into it since everyone else wants in too.  Got the license transferred to two other states moving around with no problem.  MA didn't go so smooth.  Third time's the charm I guess.  If it comes to that, I'll take the experienced course. 

[azuredesign]

Good luck! Red tape here in MA is still very red, I hope it's as Mike says and you can just get by with the permit test.
They also do charge extra for the motorcycle endorsement when you renew and unless you remind the registry agent when you renew, they will not charge you and remove the endorsement.

[Ecosse]

Rule #1 always go in person.
Rule #2 if they tell you no, go to another branch and ask again.
Rule #3 bring lots of cash or your checkbook, don't expect them to accept plastic.
Rule #4 always research the subject on the web and ask around.

if it's been a while since you've ridden maybe a MSF course would be useful? 
-Alan

excellent alan! having a much less serious issue trying to re-register a vintage tag for my 550 so i'll take your suggestions to heart.

best of luck gm!

[dave500]

sounds a lot like when i re registered my 500 here in australia,the operator at the counter told me its been on the stolen bike list since91,so i ring the seller who said it was stolen from him and recovered the same day,just not cleared from the computer,so no end of phone calls and statutary declarations ,after my third attempt about 3 weeks later the click of the mouse was done.,i had to get a snr detective to talk to someone else,to report to someone else over and over ,phew.

[Tnutz]

wow we have it easy here.....they check the vins on 500cc and up bikes to make sure they still match, actually you do it and write it down... (engine/tranny) and thats it till you sell it to another person again.  No inpections after... nothing.  Hell they are just changing the learners program here.  Write your test, pass and go buy a GSXR-1000 and crash it into a wall.  ride around on your learners for the rest of your life...but no night time driving ...

I took the MSF course and got my full endorsment though.   Now i don't have to panic like my friends who have 1000cc bikes and a learners liscense when the new cc limits come in for 2011

[dave500]

most of australia had a 250cc limit for learners that is now being changed to a LAM ,"learner approved motorcycle"you can ride up to 660cc with a power to weight cap of 150klw/tonne,the list of bikes is impressive,about time,if you are a bigger heavier bloke on a pissy 250 the suspension would be flattend ,poor acceleration into traffic and limited highway speed.

[gmonkey]

Actually, you can just keep going as long as you want on a learner's permit here too.  Don't think there's any bike restrictions either.  No nighttime driving or passengers.  Guess you can't ride around with your girlfriend on the back in tanktop, shorts and flipflops.

Not charging me is probably why they didn't act on that fax the branch sent them.

[Fritz]

Bureaucracy sucks.

When I picked up my license at an RMV office here in Germany, I've overheard a conversation between them and a lady who wanted her Austrian license transferred. That was before Austria became a member of the European Union.
She already lived here for twelve years and was told that her permit expired after two. She asked what she could do and was told to take a training.
Taking a training and passing the test costs about $2000 over here.

So, be glad to live in Massachusetts

[mystic_1]

Sometimes I wish that license requirements in the US were more like the EU, if it weren't so easy and cheap to get a license (and a lot of people here still look at it as a right to have a license) then perhaps there'd be a few less idiots on the roads.

mystic_1

[bucky katt]

Bureaucracy sucks.

When I picked up my license at an RMV office here in Germany, I've overheard a conversation between them and a lady who wanted her Austrian license transferred. That was before Austria became a member of the European Union.
She already lived here for twelve years and was told that her permit expired after two. She asked what she could do and was told to take a training.
Taking a training and passing the test costs about $2000 over here.

So, be glad to live in Massachusetts

i understand that driving in germany is pretty expensive, BUT i also understand that all the extra training and expense you have to go through to get a license there has resulted in a much lower fatality rate.

[gmonkey]

i understand that driving in germany is pretty expensive, BUT i also understand that all the extra training and expense you have to go through to get a license there has resulted in a much lower fatality rate.

Don't know.  I was riding a rented 650 thumper through the alps and had some a-hole a foot behind my rear wheel until i pulled over on the shoulder and slowed down to let him pass.  Then again, it might've been a tourist.

Naturally, I flipped him off.  Told some people what happened and they told me it's not legal to do that.  Here, it might as well be part of your road test. 

[MötleyRöx]

EDIT:  what's a statue of limitations?

It is a time limit dictated by some statue!  
StatuTe
No, really, some dbag up there decided you had a certain amount of time to state your claim.  If you are w/in that time limit, you have the right to state your claim.  If you are not w/in that time frame, your claim is no longer valid, whether it holds merit or not.

[74cb750]

So did you get your license yet?

Seems to me the best idea has already been floated: see if your license is still valid in prior state. IF that state had been Vermont, you could have a situation like mine: Vermont state DMV said I had 3, yes 3 valid licenses in VT after I moved here, all with same addy but different birthdates.
Would you believe Vermont Police kept trying to blame me for this error.

good luck.

[gmonkey]

Called CT, they do still have my license on file.  It probably expires this month.  Called MA, told them CT still has my license on file and can I retransfer it.  Unsympathetic bureaucracy isn't buying it.  I'm a resident so I'll have to take the tests again.

Screw it, i'll just get the permit and do the rider training.  Less effort and aggravation that way.  The experienced rider course will do me good.

[mick750F]

   From what I first posted I think you just have to take the learner's permit written test. I'd be sure to point that out to them if you need to. It is after all their written policy.

   Just an aside...the RMV in MA is just as much about revenue enhancement as it is about MV regulation. If there's a way for them to make $$ then they're going to do it.

Mike

[gmonkey]

I don't think it would work since this is for transferring an out of state license which you have to do as soon as you move to the state.  I called and asked and since I'm a resident and have a license here already it's a no-go.  Someone who's better at arguing with people over the phone might have a chance but I just get stonewalled.

[MötleyRöx]

I don't think mick is telling you to argue... it reads to me like he suggests to cover the bases while you're there.
Be prepared for every test they throw at you and ask them if they're sure that you are 100% legal.  
You don't want to have to go through this whole rigmarole again.

Edit: It doesn't really matter.  The test they give you is nothing compared to the real world.  When they start sending 16 year old girls on their cell-phones across the test course, then you need to be worried.