Author Topic: Scrubbing new computer clean- questions (Read 5226 times)

mlinder · « **Reply #25 on:** January 12, 2010, 11:51:59 AM »

You are confusing stuff a bit.
Yes, the bios says
"Go boot off this", but the firmware almost NEVER (on x86(IA32, whatever you want to call it)) says "Go run windows".

All it says is "Go find something to boot off of from this device ID". No actual boot code for any OS is stored in the firmware.

mystic_1 · « **Reply #26 on:** January 12, 2010, 01:11:11 PM »

Actually, that's exactly what I said, and also what the Wikipedia article says. You seem to be confusing the MBR and the VBR.

The BIOS knows how to find the MBR. The MBR knows how to find disk partitions and execute VBRs. The VBR (aka boot loader) is what actually loads your operating system.

The MBR never reads BOOT.INI and is in fact ignorant of the operating systems that will eventually be loaded.

Replacing the MBR certainly doesn't hurt anything, but neither does leaving it alone, unless it's been compromised in some way.

mystic_1

mystic_1 · « **Reply #27 on:** January 12, 2010, 01:20:57 PM »

Getting back to the original poster's question, simply formatting during the install process is more than sufficient.

mystic_1

mlinder · « **Reply #28 on:** January 12, 2010, 01:26:37 PM »

Correct, apologies.

bios > mbr > ntldr > boot.ini > vbr >OS (or whatever)

However, leaving the MBR still leaves the old master partition table and master boot code.

Getting rid of the master partition table (the mbr in general) allows the new installation to ignore data on the disc, appearing to the new installation to be a RAW format, thus allowing a clean format without leftover code anywhere.

Duke McDukiedook · « **Reply #29 on:** January 12, 2010, 01:57:04 PM »

Thanks for the input guys, I didn't need to do a complete wipe because of a virus or malware, just needed to get the crap off my sister put on it.

I just booted from the OS CD I made before hand, deleted the windows partition and told it to reinstall XP, wow, big difference in overall speed!

Now I am reinstalling everything I want on the computer and off the Micro Center to pick up some more memory and then I'll transfer my files from the old Gateway- I think I'll use the old one for a linux OS install to putt around with that, it still is a reliable computer- no need to scrap it yet, right?

Any recommendations on Linux OS downloads?

mystic_1 · « **Reply #30 on:** January 12, 2010, 02:08:56 PM »

We have several Fedora Core machines floating around here, works pretty well. I also hear good things about Ubuntu. Here's a website that compares distros, lots of good reading here:

http://distrowatch.com/

mystic_1

mlinder · « **Reply #31 on:** January 12, 2010, 02:26:39 PM »

I use ubuntu (well, the 64bit studio versions of it) at work and at home. Stable and easy to use. Give it a try. The regular version is a bit better, in my opinion, so use that.

Inigo Montoya · « **Reply #32 on:** January 12, 2010, 02:58:58 PM »

ubuntu.com and download the iso. burn it to disk (still fits on cd! Cant say that about mac or windows)
Pop it in and boot from the disk.

333 · « **Reply #33 on:** January 12, 2010, 06:06:04 PM »

Actually, XP Pro fits on a single CD. It's all the other crap that makes multiple recovery discs.

Blasbo · « **Reply #34 on:** January 13, 2010, 07:28:46 AM »

Quote from: Dukiedook on January 12, 2010, 01:57:04 PM

Any recommendations on Linux OS downloads?

Oh noes!

The geek equivalent of an oil thread.

I've heard real good things about Ubuntu. The guy I work with is a Linux fan from way, way back and that's all he uses now.

Inigo Montoya · « **Reply #35 on:** January 13, 2010, 08:22:16 AM »

XP does but anything from apple or windows these days does not.

GammaFlat · « **Reply #36 on:** March 03, 2010, 11:07:58 PM »

I'd strongly recommend Ubuntu. If you need browsing, email, IM and office products, this is an excellent choice. There's a significant pool of really nice software available in the Ubuntu community that you can't get on Windows.

The "goods"

It is FREE and the savings don't stop with the price of the O/S. You won't be shelling out $150 for Office either. Nor will be buying annual subscriptions to Anti-Virus vendors
It is easy to install
It is easy to use
It comes standard with seemingly better driver support than any version of Windows I've used.
Comes with "Office" software - OpenOffice (which is very nice)
You don't really need to worry much about "aftermarket" firewalls and virus protection
It seems so much more stable than Vista and XP - I will say that XP has been pretty good to me
There's boatloads of free high quality software that you can count on being safe through the "Ubuntu Software Center" - feels "Apple-ish" in this regard but without the ~~high~~ price
If you really want to run a Windows Application, you can use a product called Wine that some argue runs Windows apps better than Windows
If you have any old DOS apps you need to run, you can do that with Ubuntu as well

The "bads"

Although you can get nearly any "type" software you want, you may not be able to get the exact software you want (i.e. Quickbooks may not be available but accounting and tax software is available)
Especially in the corporate world... some software/utilities want to interface directly with MS Office and are therefor unusable without extra pain
There are not as many options for training as there are for Apple and Windows
You'll be considered a "fringe" person who might be dangerous
I'm open to list more here if others have suggestions

The "intrigue"

You can install "on top" of your Windows installation for a neat "multi-boot" config with a small HD performance penalty - there are other configuration options
Why aren't more folks doing this?

bucky katt · « **Reply #37 on:** March 03, 2010, 11:38:50 PM »

VISTA! (now i'll just put a helmet on and run away)

Bob Wessner · « **Reply #38 on:** March 04, 2010, 04:43:49 AM »

Quote from: GammaFlat on March 03, 2010, 11:07:58 PM

It comes standard with seemingly better driver support than any version of Windows I've used.

Does this include wireless adapter support? I've been trying to resurrect an old IBM Thinkpad (think dinky HD and small mem.

). Granted I have been using a very small distro of Linux, but trying to get wireless adapter recognized hasn't worked. I'm not familiar with Linux and this was to be my attempt to start learning and at the same time have something to work with out on the porch in nicer weather, but I have found very few manufacturers supply Linux/Unix drivers and using "wrapper" and Win drivers does not work as advertized.

mystic_1 · « **Reply #39 on:** March 04, 2010, 05:33:58 AM »

Quote from: GammaFlat on March 03, 2010, 11:07:58 PM

Why aren't more folks doing this?

Neal Stephenson wrote a piece a while back called "In the Beginning was the Command Line" that talks about this a bit. It's a bit dated now but a lot of it still applies. You can read the full text here:

http://artlung.com/smorgasborg/C_R_Y_P_T_O_N_O_M_I_C_O_N.shtml

An excerpt:

Quote

Hacker with bullhorn: "Save your money! Accept one of our free tanks! It is invulnerable, and can drive across rocks and swamps at ninety miles an hour while getting a hundred miles to the gallon!"

Prospective station wagon buyer: "I know what you say is true...but...er...I don't know how to maintain a tank!"

Bullhorn: "You don't know how to maintain a station wagon either!"

Buyer: "But this dealership has mechanics on staff. If something goes wrong with my station wagon, I can take a day off work, bring it here, and pay them to work on it while I sit in the waiting room for hours, listening to elevator music."

Bullhorn: "But if you accept one of our free tanks we will send volunteers to your house to fix it for free while you sleep!"

Buyer: "Stay away from my house, you freak!"

Bullhorn: "But..."

Buyer: "Can't you see that everyone is buying station wagons?"

mystic_1

333 · « **Reply #40 on:** March 04, 2010, 05:57:22 AM »

I've suggested this before. Memory is cheap. Add a little and you can use a more extensive version of Linux. The HD shouldn't matter that much. And not that I'm such a pro at this Linux thing(I, also have just started learning), but the later versions must have wireless support. Mark can probably speak to that better than I.

Inigo Montoya · « **Reply #41 on:** March 04, 2010, 06:27:27 AM »

Later versions of ubuntu actually have fair wireless support just when booting to the live cd.
A lot of it depends on how obscure the device was in the first place. I had a graphics card with ZERO support on linux. Even the latest ubuntu. It happens. But i will say that vista and 7 have excellent hardware support. I have gotten drivers for hardware the vendor itself no longer supported.
So bob, it may or may not support your wireless, older versions of ubuntu did not have very good support but it HAS improved.

GammaFlat · « **Reply #42 on:** March 04, 2010, 06:37:20 AM »

Quote from: Bob Wessner on March 04, 2010, 04:43:49 AM

Quote from: GammaFlat on March 03, 2010, 11:07:58 PM

It comes standard with seemingly better driver support than any version of Windows I've used.

Does this include wireless adapter support? I've been trying to resurrect an old IBM Thinkpad (think dinky HD and small mem. ). Granted I have been using a very small distro of Linux, but trying to get wireless adapter recognized hasn't worked. I'm not familiar with Linux and this was to be my attempt to start learning and at the same time have something to work with out on the porch in nicer weather, but I have found very few manufacturers supply Linux/Unix drivers and using "wrapper" and Win drivers does not work as advertized.

I had horrible luck trying to get a wireless adapter working with XP. The very same adapter was recognized and ran perfectly with Ubuntu. Ubuntu took care of the device without needing any external drivers. XP, on the other hand, wanted drivers and then the software/driver set tried to install it's own connection management software (I hate it when they do that). I understand this is anecdotal evidence but generally, I have been having good luck with hardware support (with Ubuntu).

It's very easy to try out your wireless support without making any changes to your system Bob. You can boot with a Ubuntu CD and I'm betting you'll have good luck. I did this first and was so impressed that I wound up doing "more complete" install on one machine and "Ubuntu on top of XP" install on a couple others. If you want further details on how to do this, I'm more than happy to help. My guess is that it'll be easier than you expect.

Bob Wessner · « **Reply #43 on:** March 04, 2010, 06:58:05 AM »

I'll recheck avail. resources against Ubuntu needs on the laptop and perhaps give Ubuntu a try. Thanks.

GammaFlat · « **Reply #44 on:** March 04, 2010, 07:01:57 AM »

I'm currently running Ubuntu on a 800Mhz AMD with 512 Meg of RAM. The performance is acceptable and certainly much more consistent than my 2Ghz dual core laptop with 3 gig of RAM (running Vista).

GammaFlat · « **Reply #45 on:** March 04, 2010, 07:09:19 AM »

Quote from: mystic_1 on March 04, 2010, 05:33:58 AM

Quote from: GammaFlat on March 03, 2010, 11:07:58 PM
Why aren't more folks doing this?

Neal Stephenson wrote a piece a while back called "In the Beginning was the Command Line" that talks about this a bit. It's a bit dated now but a lot of it still applies. You can read the full text here:

http://artlung.com/smorgasborg/C_R_Y_P_T_O_N_O_M_I_C_O_N.shtml

An excerpt:

Quote
Hacker with bullhorn: "Save your money! Accept one of our free tanks! It is invulnerable, and can drive across rocks and swamps at ninety miles an hour while getting a hundred miles to the gallon!"

Prospective station wagon buyer: "I know what you say is true...but...er...I don't know how to maintain a tank!"

Bullhorn: "You don't know how to maintain a station wagon either!"

Buyer: "But this dealership has mechanics on staff. If something goes wrong with my station wagon, I can take a day off work, bring it here, and pay them to work on it while I sit in the waiting room for hours, listening to elevator music."

Bullhorn: "But if you accept one of our free tanks we will send volunteers to your house to fix it for free while you sleep!"

Buyer: "Stay away from my house, you freak!"

Bullhorn: "But..."

Buyer: "Can't you see that everyone is buying station wagons?"

mystic_1

This is absolutely hilarious. The "freak" part did hurt me personally though

.

Inigo Montoya · « **Reply #46 on:** March 04, 2010, 07:15:56 AM »

Well xp had crappy driver support for virtually anything except OLD printers. Also, I was referring more to ubuntu versions 6 and 7 for spotty wireless support. I skipped 8 and now use 9.10 and so far every wireless device was worked even when running the live cd.
I always had good luck with vista though. Granted, not on 100 different computers more like about 5. But it has always worked good for me EXCEPT when the computer initially was left with all the vendor installed crap. Once I formatted and put on just the OS and what I wanted, vista was a champ. So much of the issue is all the crap software vendors install.

mystic_1 · « **Reply #47 on:** March 04, 2010, 07:26:10 AM »

Quote from: Inigo Montoya on March 04, 2010, 07:15:56 AM

But it has always worked good for me EXCEPT when the computer initially was left with all the vendor installed crap. Once I formatted and put on just the OS and what I wanted, vista was a champ. So much of the issue is all the crap software vendors install.

That's always been the case, even with XP, 2000, 98, 3.1.....

mystic_1

GammaFlat · « **Reply #48 on:** March 04, 2010, 07:33:01 AM »

I just attended an MSDN seminar and thought my answer is to just do "7". It's funny... MS reps happily but "unofficially" will tell you to move on to the next O/S... I'm wondering if it's "official/unofficial orders from headquarters" to keep the upgrade train moving. Now you've got me wondering how well a "re-install" a Vista would go.

mystic_1 · « **Reply #49 on:** March 04, 2010, 07:39:38 AM »

Yup, Micro$oft's answer to lots of things is "Give us more money"

They didn't get that big by accident.

mystic_1

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Author Topic: Scrubbing new computer clean- questions (Read 5226 times)