Topic: Phillips screw removal tools

[Markcb750]

During my rejuvenation project I developed this set of tools to remove & install these pesky Honda philips head screws.  I don't know if JIS tips are different, I only know that every screw seems different, which is why I have nearly 100 different screwdrivers.

Photo one is the set I use:
 
1. Hardened tip large square shank screw driver (this one is a Crescent from Home Depot)

2. Small adjustable wrench

3. 2lb rubber mallet

Photo two is of the screw driver tip.

Crescent did not mark what size it is on this driver. I found this driver by taking a screw to the store and playing until I got a proper fit.  Enough engagement that the driver will stand nicely in the screw; this is very important.  I do not think the manufacturing standards of screws is very tight, #0,#1.#2.#3 #4 have considerable variation between screw manufacturer.


Photo 2a
I believe these are a #4 tips see the difference?  I have found the dark pointed tip works best for me when I am working on the Hondas.


Photo 3 is a fit demonstration, note how tight the blade fits the screw, it will stand there all by itself.


While in this position I find it best to whack the end of the screw driver several times with the rubber mallet. Good hard taps help to break any corrosion and seat the blade in the screw. Of course make sure the screw head is free of contaminate before attempting to remove.


Photo 4 is with the adjustable attached to provide torque. This allows me to push axially as hard as I can while applying gentle torque to the screw.  Watch the head/blade closely, stop applying torque if there is any rotation or axial movement of the screwdriver, if there is movement I whack it again, harder.

If this fails I then try my impact driver, and then I drill the head off.

Hope this helps someone.

Remember the fitment of the blade in the screw!

[754]

Snap-On has a sopt for a wrench on theirs.

 Remember, no wrench on re installing..then you should be able to get them out screwdriver only.. out on the road..

[myhondas]

In addition, get ahold of some of this stuff. Has a very gritty texture to it. But it has worked many times for me.

[mystic_1]

This allows me to push axially as hard as I can while applying gentle torque to the screw.  Watch the head/blade closely, stop applying torque if there is any rotation or axial movement of the screwdriver, if there is movement I whack it again, harder.

I've always found this part to be key in successfully removing stubborn phillips screws. 

Remember, Phillips screws are designed to "cam out" when a certain torque is exceeded, they do this on removal as well as installation.  So, if the screw is stuck for some reason it's difficult to apply sufficient torque because the bit wants to jump out of the screw.  JIT screws and screwdrivers, from what I understand, are not designed to do this, but if you mix and match phillips to JIT then this is an issue.

I learned the "press hard on the end of the screwdriver while you twist" maneuver from a maintenance guy at my first formal summer job as a teen, it's served me well over the years.

mystic_1

[brewsky]

In addition, get ahold of some of this stuff. Has a very gritty texture to it. But it has work many times for me.

Looks amazingly similar to the tube of valve grinding compound I use!
It does help, but sometimes there is no alternative to the drill and vise grip method.

[jwl41085]

hammer chisel method works good for me. then buy allen head bolts

[Markcb750]

hammer chisel method works good for me. then buy allen head bolts

I switched every bolt I could to SS SHCSs during my rebuild. I unsuccessfully tried using a chisel to remove the exhaust flange mounting screws that stripped when I was trying remove them.

Drilling out and tapping for 8mm helicoils at the angle of those screws is a delicate procedure. I replaced all the flange mounting screws with SS FHSCSs




When my procedure does not work out I prefer to go directly to a drill, remove the head, take the part off then use pliers to take the screw out.

[Howell]

This is the one and only special screwdriver made for Honda , I bought it in 1975.
Specially made for the Honda screws , you can hammers on it.

[azporkey]

Honest guys a impact tool with case hardened tips can not be beat. It has never  failed me .When you put it in & turn It the way you want the screw to turn . When you hit it with a hammer it goes in & turns to take the screw out. Buy one you will love it. az

[Markcb750]

The problem with an impact driver is many do not know how to use it properly, and do more damage then good.  

This method allows the user to remove almost all screws without an impact driver, the key being force into the screw to allow enough torque with out damaging the screw.



**I have a great, Made in America, Craftsman impact driver with 5/16 hex drivers.  Several dozen bits and adapters , try finding them today.

[dave500]

put the impact bit in the screw and strike it first with out the driver,then do it with the driver.

[BeSeeingYou]

If the heads are already buggered up I have had good luck with a hammer and a nail punch.

[bennecc]

Another good method if the screw is mangled is to cut a flat head type slot in the screw head using a rotary.  Then use a flat bit with an impact driver.

[drones76]

'76 CB 360

I am in need of some advice on this one.  The screw the holds the speedo cable to the front wheel.  It is flat to the surface and the PO did a grand job chewing up what was there to grip it.  I cannot even tell if it was a philips head in its former life.  Drilling off the head does not seem like it will work because I may not have anything to grip.  I was thinking about an extractor.  Never needed to use one.  An impact driver has worked on the crankcase screws.  Any help is appreciated.

[Bob Wessner]

I'm not sure what it is about these, but this seems to always happen. I replaced mine and did not over tighten it. A couple of weeks later tried to remove it and had a heck of time. I finally got it off with an impact driver, but you have to be careful if it is like on my 750, the assembly is unsupported in that area. You need to back it with something before using the driver. Not looking forward to removing again anytime soon. 

[mystic_1]

You might consider cutting a straight slot in it with a Dremel and then using a flat head screwdriver to turn it out.

mystic_1

[wrenchmuch]

I'm not sure what it is about these, but this seems to always happen. I replaced mine and did not over tighten it. A couple of weeks later tried to remove it and had a heck of time. I finally got it off with an impact driver, but you have to be careful if it is like on my 750, the assembly is unsupported in that area. You need to back it with something before using the driver. Not looking forward to removing again anytime soon. 

You might consider cutting a straight slot in it with a Dremel and then using a flat head screwdriver to turn it out.

mystic_1

+1 on both these quotes . I broke my speedo drive trying an impact driver on it . Finding a new one was not difficult .
I cut a slot into the second one and got it out . Make sure you put liberal amounts of copper anti-seize on the NEW bolt . My friend's 750 didn't come out by cutting a slot and we drilled it out . The threaded portion came out easily . I think it might be the counter bored screw head that locks them in place .
Mike

[Pinhead]

I strongly recommend an impact driver.

You just have to remember to put slight "loosening pressure" on the screw before you whack it with the hammer.

[Bob Wessner]

I strongly recommend an impact driver.

You just have to remember to put slight "loosening pressure" on the screw before you whack it with the hammer.

Mine works in both directions, so make sure you have the tip "cocked" for unscrewing vs tightening.

[72hondacb750]

The few times I've had screws stuck I have had WAY more luck cutting slots in them and then using the flat head impact driver. I think it gets better leverage on the screw since the slot goes closer to the edges of the screw than a phillips.

You can see an example of this is a guide I wrote up about increasing the oil pressure. What I did would work on your spedo drive as well.

[bigtuna]

just got back from harbor frt. and bought their $4.99 impact driver, ya the one you hit with a hammer , my first tool from hf but as soon as i got home had to try it, on the same honda phillips head screws that are in all the engine side covers, i popped out at least a dozen screws in less than 3 or 4 mins. the hardened tip held up and didnt strip any heads not that i would reuse any. this 76 750-4 has been sitting outside for a couple years uncovered, guy was gutting a house said he was going to have to pay someone to haul it off so i offered to take it off his hands, thought i could sell some parts and scrap the rest, was missing the tank, but everything else was there, but i was having a helluva time with those screws, if you dont have one i would def. get one, oh well my 2cents good luck

[Markcb750]

You guys understand that I am not suggesting a way to remove a damaged/over torqued screw, I am suggesting a way to press firmly, directly into the screw with a proper screw driver and still be able to apply torque to remove the screw.

Once the screw is damaged, slotting, drilling the head off, vice grips all work.

[Bluto]

You might consider cutting a straight slot in it with a Dremel and then using a flat head screwdriver to turn it out.

mystic_1

+1.  This method is quick... cheap and you replace em with hex head and stick a hex wrench under the seat

[Project750]

I bought one of those Harbor Freight impact drivers and the tip actually twisted instead of the screw loosening.  I don't think it was hardened.  And the rubber grip on the outside spun as well.

I took that crap tool back and bought one from Sears. The new one works great.

[dave500]

cheap impact drivers will let you down,cheap mini socket sets for example are fine,any heavy duty tool thats cheap wont be heavy duty,itll look the part though.,cheap hammers will chip and land a shard in your eye.

[Hopper]

In addition, get ahold of some of this stuff. Has a very gritty texture to it. But it has worked many times for me.

Super Glue works too, in a pinch, as long as screw head and screwdriver are perfectly clean of oil and grease.

But a good quality impact driver works for me 99 out of 100 times.

[paul_bfree]

Hi guys, new to this forum just having bought a basket case 750.
Anyway, I sheared most of the casing screws (30 years corrosion, weakening metal in screw heads, and of course, not precise matching of the screwdriver head, meant I started shredding the heads.

Next attempt, I used the #2 Phillips bit in my electric, torque adjustable, reversing electric drill/driver. Keep pressure on the head (push hard into it) and with no torque slip (on drill setting), slowly bring on the speed (in reverse).  As the torque builds in the drill engine, you will hear the controller scream, and then the torque will be overcome and out she pops.

But, there were some screw heads remaining (sheared).
I bought a set of these wonderful screw extractors (see pics) a few months ago from Home Depot and put them to use. They are designed to drill a clearance hole (drill in reverse) and then use the other end to 'grab' the freshly drilled hole in the screw head (again, in reverse).  Using the drill speed control to apply torque, the extractor bites into the screw head, and hey presto, breaks the torque and out she comes.  Wonderfull.

I have already bought a set of SS hex head screws to replace these horrible Phillips head ones (that also means I don't need to clean them).

Have fun!

[demon78]

In the panoply of techniques and tools if you suspect your going to have a problem try the old method of whacking them with a brass drift and hammer not much force is needed just a short smart smack on the drift.
Bill the demon.

[Zaipai]

Hi guys, new to this forum just having bought a basket case 750.
Anyway, I sheared most of the casing screws (30 years corrosion, weakening metal in screw heads, and of course, not precise matching of the screwdriver head, meant I started shredding the heads.

Next attempt, I used the #2 Phillips bit in my electric, torque adjustable, reversing electric drill/driver. Keep pressure on the head (push hard into it) and with no torque slip (on drill setting), slowly bring on the speed (in reverse).  As the torque builds in the drill engine, you will hear the controller scream, and then the torque will be overcome and out she pops.

But, there were some screw heads remaining (sheared).
I bought a set of these wonderful screw extractors (see pics) a few months ago from Home Depot and put them to use. They are designed to drill a clearance hole (drill in reverse) and then use the other end to 'grab' the freshly drilled hole in the screw head (again, in reverse).  Using the drill speed control to apply torque, the extractor bites into the screw head, and hey presto, breaks the torque and out she comes.  Wonderfull.

I have already bought a set of SS hex head screws to replace these horrible Phillips head ones (that also means I don't need to clean them).

Have fun!

Yup they work great, I picked up mine at Lowes, not real expensive either. However I did have the smallest one break in the screw head after many successful removals. Perhaps it was fatigued not sure. I am getting another set they just work like gang busters.

.: Scott :.

[BR]

This will be my first post here on SOHC 4.  Just getting back into wrenching on bikes since running a shop in the mid and late 80's.
Hope this helps.

1. On stuck screws the first thing to do is give them a good tap with a dead blow ball peen hammer. This will help break the oxidation that exists between the steel screw and the aluminum casing. Sometimes this is all that is needed to free the screw. If the head is buggered up go ahead and hit it much harder with the same hammer and a good flat punch. this will actually make the screw head almost disappear with only a small looking phillips design left. then take your  (most likely #3) phillips bit and drive it into the screw. At that point you can use several methods to remove the screw. My first choice is a 3/8 air impact turned down to a low setting. The vibrations from the air impact will usually help to loosen the screw if it is still stuck.  At this point an impact driver also works well. Or just a 3/8 ratchet with the correct socket to fit your bit. You can push in on the ratchet just like applying the good pressure to the screwdriver as mentioned earlier in this thread.

Finally if all else fails and you break the screw off flush with the case and you don't have access to a welder to weld on a nut head filling the inside of the nut with weld, get yourself some lefthand drill bits. They saved me many times after breaking off bolts when our welder wasn't around. To use them drill a small pilot hole then reverse your drill and install a left hand drill bit just smaller than the bolt/screw to be removed and usually with the heat from drilling the bolt, the left hand drill bit will grab and the screw/bolt will back out on it's own.

Hope this helps!
And look for a build thread from me soon.

[Zaipai]

This will be my first post here on SOHC 4.  Just getting back into wrenching on bikes since running a shop in the mid and late 80's.
Hope this helps.

1. On stuck screws the first thing to do is give them a good tap with a dead blow ball peen hammer. This will help break the oxidation that exists between the steel screw and the aluminum casing. Sometimes this is all that is needed to free the screw. If the head is buggered up go ahead and hit it much harder with the same hammer and a good flat punch. this will actually make the screw head almost disappear with only a small looking phillips design left. then take your  (most likely #3) phillips bit and drive it into the screw. At that point you can use several methods to remove the screw. My first choice is a 3/8 air impact turned down to a low setting. The vibrations from the air impact will usually help to loosen the screw if it is still stuck.  At this point an impact driver also works well. Or just a 3/8 ratchet with the correct socket to fit your bit. You can push in on the ratchet just like applying the good pressure to the screwdriver as mentioned earlier in this thread.

Finally if all else fails and you break the screw off flush with the case and you don't have access to a welder to weld on a nut head filling the inside of the nut with weld, get yourself some lefthand drill bits. They saved me many times after breaking off bolts when our welder wasn't around. To use them drill a small pilot hole then reverse your drill and install a left hand drill bit just smaller than the bolt/screw to be removed and usually with the heat from drilling the bolt, the left hand drill bit will grab and the screw/bolt will back out on it's own.

Hope this helps!
And look for a build thread from me soon.

Great advice, I have some screws on my Suzuki I will try this on. Thanks for the write up..
.: Scott :.

[Rocker]

I bought one of those Harbor Freight impact drivers and the tip actually twisted instead of the screw loosening.  I don't think it was hardened.  And the rubber grip on the outside spun as well.

I took that crap tool back and bought one from Sears. The new one works great.

I have the Harbor Freight impact screwdriver and have had great luck with it. I just firmly seat the bit in the screw head, grip the driver tight, grab my mallet, and give it a good whack. The key is to hit it harder then you think you need to. 100% sucess rate thus far. Even on a bike that has sat outside for the last few years. Well worth the $5 in my opinion.

[23tbucket]

Mark and Mystic: You are correct.....The Japanese "Phillips" screw heads and their screwdrivers are different then what is available over the counter for almost all of us. I would like to find a set of the correct Japanese Phillips head tools for a 3/8" impact driver.........

[mrrch]

These pliers work GREAT for breaking loose those pesky carb float bowl screws.

They are tiny but have such aggressive teeth and unbelievable grip.
Try them and you won't be disappointed, they work great when some PO has stripped out the heads.
Part number is 5ACP from SnapOn

[Don 18]

Hey guys, I just picked up a set of Vessel JIS drivers from LevelChrome with striking cap and a hex on the shank for a wrench:
http://www.levelchrome.com/Vessel-930-Megadora-PH2x100-Phillips-2-Screwdriver-_p_233.html

I have no affiliation with the seller other than being a satisfied customer. If you order, use the coupon code "Levelchrome" for a discount.

Haven't had a chance to attack the case screws on the CB yet, but there is a night and day difference between the fit of these tips and a phillips bit in the fastener. Helps using the right tool for the job

Also saw that Vessel has an impact version as well but did not pick any up when I ordered the other drivers
http://www.levelchrome.com/Vessel-980-Megadora-Impacta-PH2x100-Phillips-2-Hand-Held-Impact-Screwdriver-_p_172.html

There is a whole thread on Garage Journal as well:
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=28491

Don

[Don 18]

Update on the Vessel JIS drivers --- they are great!

Removed some stuck and partially stripped case cover screws and rusted exhaust screws for a heat shield.  Got a ball pein hammer and tapped the driver into the screw.  Used my knee to apply pressure to keep the bit firmly in the screw and a wrench on the hex shaft. A quick snap of the wrench and they broke free. The real stubborn ones just needed a little heat. Well worth the $$

[Rgconner]

At that same site (Damn, I have to buy some of the other tools there, they are nice!)

they have these:

http://www.levelchrome.com/Engineer-PZ58-160mm-63-Screw-Gripping-Pliers_p_113.html

Gotta say, those look sweet!

[Markcb750]

Interesting bit on JIS screws.  Never thought to look in hobby shops for drivers.

http://www.instructables.com/id/When-a-Phillips-is-not-a-Phillips/step10/JIS-Japanese-Industrial-Standard/

[brewsky]

Best method yet, and I think I've tried them all....

Sears 1/2" drive hand impact chuck & #3 tip on air impact gun.

Easy on the trigger and keep inward pressure on the gun...

Just removed corroded oil pump and tried 3 different methods..

Sears hand impact and 2 1/2# hammer....no luck...

Vessel #3 impact screwdriver and same hammer...no luck...

Sears chuck on air gun....no problem...instant success and no screw damage