Author Topic: 78F SS valve stems  (Read 1569 times)

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upperlake04

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78F SS valve stems
« on: January 06, 2006, 06:04:18 PM »
First post on the big boys board..

This is a great site  - much knowledge, humor and  entertainment. The archives hold lots of info but so far no answer to this problem.

I have removed the low compression engine from my  1978 750F3 SuperSport. (id thanks to Jim Sheas' posting of frame and engine numbers). All the top end parts have been cleaned and measured and except for the heavily worn exhaust guides everything is within spec.

The tips of some of the valve stems have an oval shaped depression worn into them where the rocker arm make contact. This must make proper clearance adjustment difficult without spoon shaped feeler gauges.  The worst one is about .012th deep and has some angular craters into the bottom of that. I would guess about .020-.025th would need to be ground from the tip to remove all of it.  I hear rumors of 'stellite' coating?.... at limit of knowledge...

Question to those who know - can I grind and polish the ends of these valves without bad consequences?    David



Offline dusterdude

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Re: 78F SS valve stems
« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2006, 06:19:35 PM »
wait for mike rieck to chime in here,but i would think you could put lash caps on the valves and be good to go.
mark
1972 k1 750
1949 fl panhead
1 1/2 gl1100 goldwings
1998 cbr600 f3

Offline oldfart

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Re: 78F SS valve stems
« Reply #2 on: January 06, 2006, 08:11:02 PM »
Hi, this is a different Mike here.  :-)  I was for many years a Honda dealer tech, and back in 1977 a visiting service rep (it was Fred Germain) told me that these engines were destined to consume valve guides at a rapid rate.  He  communicated that the factory was making a "delta change" to the valve guides.  That is, their specification was changing with no notice being made to the dealer (not even the part number).  The new guides, he said, would be identifiable by having a larger hole (all Honda valve guides are sold under-sized and must be reamed to size after installation), and to check all guides going into these engines with a certain size (a letter size, as I recall) drill bit.  The bit would pass through an updated guide but not through an older one.  The deal was, the new guides were harder and because of this were pre-reamed, and thus larger than the old-style guides that had to be reamed to size.  Oddly, we didn't see a lot of this problem, even though I worked on a
bunch of black F models back then.  But when I joined American Honda in 1980 as a warranty analyst, a surprising number of these engines were still being warrantied for this problem (probably ten or more a month for the first year I was an analyst -- even though the machines were by then well out of their 6-month
warranty term).  Interestingly, nearly twenty years later, I would be working at an independent shop in Arizona, and during a routine head gasket replacement I would remember this and sure enough, I amazed my boss by predicting that the exhaust guides would be trash on this 6,000 mile engine, and they definitely
were.  Hour-glassed.  Valves rattling around in the guides like a pencil in a coke bottle.  The early CB650 has the same problem, for the same reason -- altered valve geometry.  :-)
Mike Nixon
Why is there never enough time to do it right, but always enough time to do it over?

www.motorcycleproject.com

Offline Sam Green Racing

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Re: 78F SS valve stems
« Reply #3 on: January 06, 2006, 08:32:12 PM »
Mike Rieck is the guy to sort your problem, in fact he makes and if I am not mistaken may have lash caps in stock, but I'm not sure if they are for F or K motors.

Send him a PM with your problem I'm sure he will be able to help.

Regards Sam.
C95 sprint bike.
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CB95 race bike
CB92
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JMR Racing CB750A street ET drag bike

Offline MRieck

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Re: 78F SS valve stems
« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2006, 10:57:11 AM »
Thanks Mark and Sam.  David, I can help you out. email or PM me.
   Mike
Owner of the "Million Dollar CB"

Offline bryanj

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Re: 78F SS valve stems
« Reply #5 on: January 07, 2006, 11:29:40 AM »
I know Mike will have put you right, I did two or three sets of guides under warantee here in UK (we got 12 months unlimited mileage AS LONG AS IT HAD BEEN DEALER SEVICED TO HONDA SPEC!) and as a dealer Mech I never used feeler gauges but adjusted by "feel". It takes some practice but 1 full turn of the adjuster is 40 thou so 1/4 is 10 thou and 1/8 is 5 thou which is near as dammit the 4 thou that we were given as a spec and 2 thou is just enough play to feel without hearing a "click" Honestly its easier than it sounds and I never had a problem. I also have a "trick" for stopping the BMW horizotal twins clacking but that is for another time!!
Semi Geriatric ex-Honda mechanic and MOT tester (UK version of annual inspection). Garage full of "projects" mostly 500/4 from pre 73 (no road tax in UK).

Remember "Its always in the last place you look" COURSE IT IS YOU STOP LOOKIN THEN!

Offline dusterdude

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Re: 78F SS valve stems
« Reply #6 on: January 07, 2006, 11:57:28 AM »
Thanks Mark and Sam.  David, I can help you out. email or PM me.
   Mike
your very welcome mike,i knew you could help him out.
mark
1972 k1 750
1949 fl panhead
1 1/2 gl1100 goldwings
1998 cbr600 f3

Offline Sam Green Racing

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Re: 78F SS valve stems
« Reply #7 on: January 07, 2006, 02:29:25 PM »
That's what we are here for Dusty. ;D
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JMR Racing CB750A street ET drag bike

Offline MRieck

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Re: 78F SS valve stems
« Reply #8 on: January 08, 2006, 02:36:09 PM »
Sent you a PM David
Owner of the "Million Dollar CB"

Offline Sam Green Racing

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Re: 78F SS valve stems
« Reply #9 on: January 08, 2006, 03:53:13 PM »
Dave, it wouldnt last 5 minuets.

Sam.
C95 sprint bike.
CB95 hybrid race bike
CB95 race bike
CB92
RS 175. sprint/land speed bike
JMR Racing CB750A street ET drag bike

Offline MRieck

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Re: 78F SS valve stems
« Reply #10 on: January 09, 2006, 06:43:11 PM »
David
  Here are the pics I promised.
Owner of the "Million Dollar CB"

Offline oldfart

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Re: 78F SS valve stems
« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2006, 06:37:01 PM »
You cannot grind or machine these valves and get away with it.  They are not hardened steel, but very soft steel that has been plated with a hard material. 
Mike Nixon
Why is there never enough time to do it right, but always enough time to do it over?

www.motorcycleproject.com