Topic: State of the Union 2010

[wannabridin]

Hey guys,

I just wanted to know what everyone thought about Obama's State of Union for 2010.  Looks like all the television "pundants" were pretty outraged by it, as well as quite a few others.  I'm remaining neutral, albeit a bit offended.  Either way, thoughts are welcome!!

[vanillagorilla]

I wont even touch this with this 10 foot pole!

[bender01]

I let my cogressman speak for me!

[hs2k007]

Some good points, but some stupid ones too.  I could not help but notice how fake some of the democrats were.  I thought it was stupid how both parties jumped up and clapped at almost everything.  (or should I say everything that put money in thier pockets)  Some because the tax cuts, breaks and loans are going to thier friends who in turn pay them off for more favors.  I say fire half the SOB's and give the jobs to community workers in each state.  After all, we would cost about half the price of our senators.  Have you seen any of them in the unemployment lines.  I bet they have had to sacrifice filet for new york strip, or worse hamburgers.  Republicans, Democrats.....they are all crooks!

SORRY IF YOU WORK IN POLITICS, BUT HERE THIS.  GET OFF YOUR F###ING #SS AND WORK FOR YOUR LIVING LIKE THE REST OF US, PAY YOUR TAXES!  GET YOU HANDS OUT OF AMERICAN BUSINESSES AND THE HELL OUT OF OUR POCKETS.  THIS NATION WAS FOUNDED BY THE PEOPLE, FOR THE PEOPLE, SO LET THE PEOPLE SPEAK AND MAKE THE DECISIONS!  SHUT YOUR MOUTH AND OPEN YOUR EARS!

[hs2k007]

I rest my case.  I just read this on this site and I almost threw up on the keyboard.  Fire all of them.  Especially Nancy Pe on me losi!  Someone please forward this to your local congress.  Ask them for answers.  I must answer for ever dime when I go on a company "work" trip.  What could all of these idiots work on at the same time!  Kind of ironic that congress went on a trip to discuss conservation, recycling, reducing emissions.  How wasteful was this trip, food, money, fuel, paper, name it. 

STUPID, JUST STUPID!  NANCY-YOUR FIRED!!!

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/01/25/cbsnews_investigates/main6140406.shtml

[Steve F]

I wont even touch this with this 10 foot pole!

How about a 6ft Bohemian?

[bucky katt]

I let my cogressman speak for me!

representitve Wilson i presume? he helped me with my medicaid claim and seems to be willing to help with my disability claim as well/

[the technological J]

http://www.reteaparty.com/2009/04/30/the-first-100-days-of-obamas-lies-blunders-gaffs-and-abuses-of-liberty/

[mark]

http://www.reteaparty.com/2009/04/30/the-first-100-days-of-obamas-lies-blunders-gaffs-and-abuses-of-liberty/

tea party  pee tarty  ree tardy

all I got after a couple minutes was the distinct impression that the t-bag d-bags haven't managed to persuade a single competent web designer to their cause.

 

[Duke McDukiedook]

I had no idea I had to look out for fake tea parties and for profit tea parties.

Thank you intarwebs, I is smarter now. 

[noahspop]

http://www.reteaparty.com/2009/04/30/the-first-100-days-of-obamas-lies-blunders-gaffs-and-abuses-of-liberty/

tea party  pee tarty  ree tardy

all I got after a couple minutes was the distinct impression that the t-bag d-bags haven't managed to persuade a single competent web designer to their cause.

 

I always used the term "Function before Fashion" in my skateboarding days. I do believe it applies to everything.

Of course being flashy will only get you so far in life. One good thing is, it will get your foot in the door, but the rest is up to you.

Remember name calling is not nice, shame on you.
(I left my 10 ft. pool at home today)

[Frankenkit]

SORRY IF YOU WORK IN POLITICS, BUT HERE THIS.  GET OFF YOUR F###ING #SS AND WORK FOR YOUR LIVING LIKE THE REST OF US, PAY YOUR TAXES!  GET YOU HANDS OUT OF AMERICAN BUSINESSES AND THE HELL OUT OF OUR POCKETS.  THIS NATION WAS FOUNDED BY THE PEOPLE, FOR THE PEOPLE, SO LET THE PEOPLE SPEAK AND MAKE THE DECISIONS!  SHUT YOUR MOUTH AND OPEN YOUR EARS!

+1 !!!
I don't know or care what your politics are, but I agree!!!!  There should be laws stating that to be in congress is an average gov't worker's wage (by average, I mean like VA nurses or the state cops, or...) and laws limiting or eliminating "gifts and contributions" the way once upon a time Olympic athletes couldn't be paid in any way to do what they do.  They'd have to work for their people, wouldn't be owned by the damned businesses.

[noahspop]

Yes! Kit, yes!
+1

[wannabridin]

I like this thread so far.  It's always nice to hear everyone opinions on things!  I'm by no means into politics, I voted for Nader just cuz I'm ignorant and don't know anything about anyone running!  There's so much wrong with our wonderful country right now that people need to actually take pride in their jobs and their LIVES!  they're leaving behind a f**ked up legacy that we (I'm 25) have to fix.  On top of all this, an overwhelming majority of Americans are too damn scared to try and fix anything or to support those who want to and WILL fix things.  Our gov't needs to stop making broken promises and actually live up to what they say. 

If i had it my way, then we'd have a BLIND election system with no contributions from companies and foundations.  The gov't would air the candidates and their beliefs as "Candidate A believes in ........  and Candidate B believes in ................."  I feel this would eliminate ALL the racial problems Obama's election warranted and make people actually VOTE and exercise their RIGHT to vote as citizens of this country.  Maybe then the people could actually have their voices heard and skin color and money wouldn't be a problem.

I also believe that EVERY American president should have SERVED HIS COUNTRY in some branch of the armed forces for a minimum period of time.  They should also have a minimum term in some higher level of government before they can be allowed to run.  But lastly, and probably the most important, is they should be able to show without any hesitation or excuses, AN AMERICAN BIRTH CERTIFICATE!!! 

Sorry to vent, my ignorant views are controversial to some, but I think a vast majority of the public would agree with me if they really thought hard about the subject...

[Swede]

It was a very fine speech and I liked some of his ideas.  The real question is will he be able to accomplish anything? There were also a number of things he said that were just completely stupid.  I voted for Obama but that doesn't mean that I am not going to criticize the things he does or says.  If he wants a second term then he better prove himself with some actions and not just words.  Unfortunately for him he has spent his time in office being a politician and not being a leader.  Like all of his other speeches he has a lot of good things to say but he never seems to have an outline for how to accomplish them.  It is a bit disheartening but this is only his first year so only time will tell. 

The worst part of it all is the Dems in the Senate.  They can't seem to agree on anything and spend all of their time fighting amongst themselves. 

What I think this country really needs are term limits for all elected political figures.  The President has term limits so why shouldn't the rest of our politicians. 

[BeSeeingYou]

I also believe that EVERY American president should have SERVED HIS COUNTRY in some branch of the armed forces for a minimum period of time.  They should also have a minimum term in some higher level of government before they can be allowed to run.  But lastly, and probably the most important, is they should be able to show without any hesitation or excuses, AN AMERICAN BIRTH CERTIFICATE!!! 

Sorry to vent, my ignorant views are controversial to some, but I think a vast majority of the public would agree with me if they really thought hard about the subject...

I take it that is some reference to Obama but I just have to tell you Hawaii is part of America.

[BeSeeingYou]

    Well I thought it a decent speech.  It's just to bad it took him this long to grow a pair.  The republicans showed themselves to be void of ideas and leadership but with McConnell, Bohner, and Canter that should be expected.  It was really telling when they would not applaud tax cuts for the middle class or anything else that did not benefit the top 2%ers. 
     Now we find ourselves in this situation again.  A Democratic President has to clean up the mess left by 8 years of incompetent republican/conservative rule.  The Obama Administration now has to straighten out the war in Afghanistan after 7 years of bungling mismanagement that allowed Bin Ladin and Al Queda to escape and spread around the globe.  Finally wind down the war in Iraq that should never have been started and was never paid for.  Fix an economy that tanked in 2008 after a phony economic boom and virtually 0% job growth after 8 years.  Conservatives just don't seem to be able to accept any responsibility for the consequence of their actions.  Conservatives always say government is the problem or can't do anything right and every time they get elected and control the levers of power they prove it by their own incompetence.  Until they grow up and want to try and solve the problems the country faces they don't even deserve a seat at the table.

[hs2k007]

     Now we find ourselves in this situation again.  A Democratic President has to clean up the mess left by 8 years of incompetent republican/conservative rule.  The Obama Administration now has to straighten out the war in Afghanistan after 7 years of bungling mismanagement that allowed Bin Ladin and Al Queda to escape and spread around the globe.  Finally wind down the war in Iraq that should never have been started and was never paid for.  Fix an economy that tanked in 2008 after a phony economic boom and virtually 0% job growth after 8 years.  Conservatives just don't seem to be able to accept any responsibility for the consequence of their actions.  Conservatives always say government is the problem or can't do anything right and every time they get elected and control the levers of power they prove it by their own incompetence.  Until they grow up and want to try and solve the problems the country faces they don't even deserve a seat at the table.
[/quote]

I understand what you are saying, but Bush or the Republicans did not tell Obama to tell half truths and not deliver on promises.  He would have been better not saying certain things at all.  What happened in the past we can not change.  We are living in today.  What we are judged on is results, and he just does not have any that prove this country is heading in the right direction.  One might say he saved the banks and housing market from crumbling.  Are we that stupid not to see what happened.  Look at the facts, the banks were claiming they were bankrupt and so did the housing market.  We loan them a few billion, and all of a sudden they pay it back with interest in less than a year.  Bullsh##!  What are banks good at.  Making money off of money.  They had an opportunity to make money if they were loaned more than they had.  They made billions off of the loans, paid off the Dems who helped them get the money and pocketed some themselves.  Lets look at health care as well.  Sure we all agreed that it could use reform.  Even Repub thought so.  But mandatory health care?  Taxed Health care?  When you are born on this earth, it is not your right to have health care, it is your privilage.  It is something you work for, not given.  This is free work system.  You can have as much or little income as you like.  It all depends on how hard you work.  The harder you work, the more you earn, and the more privilages you get.  You can work where ever you want.  If your job does not offer health care, change jobs.  Government has no place to force businesses or the American Public to pay for thier bloated health care plans. 

With all that said, I am niether Repub or Dem.  I just want results not lies and promises.  This is not the change we wanted.  All I see is the change going in the Dems pockets.  If the government wants to be in Amercian Business so bad (GM=Government Motors), then lets treat it like a business.  When they do not perform, let the people vote or fired senators, congress, house speakers, even the President if they do not perform.  After all, this is what happens to the American Public.

[ev0lve]

When you are born on this earth, it is not your right to have health care, it is your privilage. It is something you work for, not given.  This is free work system.  You can have as much or little income as you like.  It all depends on how hard you work.  The harder you work, the more you earn, and the more privilages you get.

Would you also say that a K - 12 education is a privilege and should be funded as such?

Not trying to be confrontational. Just interested in where the idea stops or if it stops somewhere.

[hs2k007]

Would you also say that a K - 12 education is a privilege and not a right?

Not trying to be confrontational. Just interested in where the idea stops or if it stops somewhere.

I guess you could say it is also a privilage.  That is why people from other countries come here to go to school.  I was once in Jamacia, and the kids there go K - 6 the first 4 hours and 6 - 12 the next 4 hours in the same school and class rooms.  

Maybe the way to look at it is public school is a right and college is a privilage.  The harder you or your parents worked, the better opportunities that were available to you and not given to you by the government.

Or you could look at it another way.  K-12 at a public school as a right and if you feel that private school is better, that would be your privilage (since you would pay this out of your pocket for a better education)

It can be looked at two ways, but think of it this way.  I who currently pay for my health insurance would be taxed to pay for someone who is not willing to work for thiers under the proposed Health Care plan.  Those who do not want health care, would still pay to make it affordable for everyone else.  Same would be for private schooling or college.  I would be paying for my child to have higher education and taxed to pay for those that can not pay.    

[hs2k007]

The other way to look at it.

Is it fair to give every single person the exact same opportunities nothing more or nothing less regardless of how hard they work.  What then drives people to go above and beyond to obtain more things or privilages...nothing.  All you have then is a "give me" society that is not willing to work for anything.

Again like you said where does this end.

Is it my fault that others have not saved money for retirement.  So I someday will be taxed to give everyone a good retirement package that is all equal.  That again is a privilage based on how hard or smart you worked.  Would you think it was fair for your neighbor to never work a day in his life (if he was able) and still get the same retirement funding as you?

[Frankenkit]

I think a lot of the argument is a "quality of life" argument.  "Government" care will probably be the cheapest, lowest rung stuff you can get... like the cheesy, barely-anything dental insurance I got with my $10/hr job, that sent me way across town to a tiny dirty office where the hygienist spoke really, really broken english and wielded that pick like a claymore.  Medical care like the homeless get from state facilities when their poorly managed diabetes (no $ for preventative care) finally rots off their feet.

...then your private option is your insurance through your job and whatever private entities you want to give your money, unless insurance is able to completely cover your preventative care, etc.

People worry about wait lists etc if the health plan goes into effect.  We're already there.  Willamette Dental books 3-4 months in advance, their ratings REALLY suck, and the list is "always" full.  I have heard much of the same from HMO patients trying to see their "approved" specialists.

[ev0lve]

Would you also say that a K - 12 education is a privilege and not a right?

Not trying to be confrontational. Just interested in where the idea stops or if it stops somewhere.

I guess you could say it is also a privilage.  That is why people from other countries come here to go to school.  I was once in Jamacia, and the kids there go K - 6 the first 4 hours and 6 - 12 the next 4 hours in the same school and class rooms.  

I changed up my response because none of it is a right as given in the constitution so I wanted to avoid that but I didn't edit it in time.

Or you could look at it another way.  K-12 at a public school as a right and if you feel that private school is better, that would be your privilage (since you would pay this out of your pocket for a better education)

It can be looked at two ways, but think of it this way.  I who currently pay for my health insurance would be taxed to pay for someone who is not willing to work for thiers under the proposed Health Care plan.  Those who do not want health care, would still pay to make it affordable for everyone else.  Same would be for private schooling or college.  I would be paying for my child to have higher education and taxed to pay for those that can not pay.    

Follow up question then and I'm not trying to trap you or do a gotcha.

It sounds like you do think some government is applicable here beyond what the constitution proscribes and that some of those services are beneficial to the country as a whole.

What's the fundamental difference between mandating K - 12  education and health care? As I see it they're both about creating a more egalitarian society where an individual has an opportunity to rise based on merit without necessarily being encumbered by previous generations or their current circumstance.

So the harder your parents worked or their relative luckiness can actually have an effect on your health as kid, your ability to learn and so on. A lot of this kind of stuff is about providing a level field for folks to start off on and win or lose from there.

I think that's a good thing.

There's a lot of tug back and forth between providing services that indirectly buoy us all up. Your statement kind of implies the born alone/die alone philosophy when you take it all the way to its conclusion - and mine makes me a socialist if it's just pure ideology.

But I'm guessing neither of us like where the ideas lead at their extremes.

Anyways, rambling now. Yeah, I wish our representatives could get it together and hash out where their common ground is as well so we could get something done AND pass an amendment to REQUIRE publicly funded elections down to the state level.

I'm rooting for us as a country. Kind of hope we all win.

[hs2k007]

I hope that we all win too.  But in life it just is not possible.  Yes, I would agree the level playing field for basic needs would be a good thing.   

What the government should focus on is making medicine and services affordable, not free health insurance.  After all this is what drives the insurance up.  Then all could have affordable health care services without insurance.  Then the purchase of insurance would be a privilage.

Make housing affordable.  Then all could have shelter.  It would be your privilage to purchase a home that is larger than your neighbor.

Make clothing affordable.  Again your privilage if you can afford nicer clothes

And one I feel strong about, is to stop taxing basic food items that people need to survive.  We are already taxed on our paycheck, and then we are taxed on all the items we purchased, so your take home pay is cut in half once the government is done.
   

[Frankenkit]

What the government should focus on is making medicine and services affordable, not free health insurance.  After all this is what drives the insurance up.  Then all could have affordable health care services without insurance.  Then the purchase of insurance would be a privilage.

Here's an oversimplified analogy for health care right now.
Say you own a restaurant that serves breakfasts all day.  You've got some of the best omelets in town for maybe $5 a plate.  $1 for OJ or coffee.
There's not a whole lot of profit, there, but you get enough to pay your employees, enough to keep business as usual going, etc etc.
Some homeless guy comes in.  It's not really his fault he's homeless, just the way it is.  The government says that at the bare minimum you need to give him an omelet and an OJ when he comes in.
He might just be coming in because he needs to warm up, and might even say so, but you're legally obligated here to give him the minimum service.
That's $6 lost.
Billy Joe comes in and says "Put it on my tab."
His tab has been running for awhile and you know bill collections are on his case, but you're obligated here.
Another $6.
In order to keep doing business and making enough to pay your employees etc, you start needing to raise the costs for all the other paying customers.  You hate to do it, but how else are you going to get your money?
---end story---
The analogy is, as I said, grossly oversimplified, but for a hospital that needs to run full EKGs or expensive Xrays on a homeless guy who came in because he was told if he came in with "chest pains" he could get a turkey sandwich and a warm place to sleep for awhile... that adds up.

If hospitals got a baseline of funds from the gov't to help cover these instances in particular, prices would be able to come down for the average breakfast buyer.  This also ignores the entire group of a-holes who go to the ED for incredibly stupid stuff and don't pay their bills.
 "My knee is killing me!"
 When did this start?
"6 months ago?"    

"I need pain meds for my toothache."
Weren't you here last week?
"Yeah. It still hurts."
You have dental insurance, right?  To get it fixed?
 "Yeah, but I hate dentists."

This one I've seen:
Pt: "I came in for a bug bite. It really, really itches.  I took extra vitaminc cuz it's an anti-toxitant.  For poisons and stuff."
(another lady in the waiting room)Did you try benadryl or another bug bite cream?
Pt: "Oh, no, it really, really itched."
(another lady in the waiting room) Could you have made a doctor's appointment for the $20 copay instead of a $500 ER bill?
Pt: Oh NO! It could have gone away by the time I saw the doctor!
 (other lady)

I wanted to shoot myself, sitting there, listening to the conversation.  I was already feeling really guilty being there, because I could have waited for an appointment, but because of SAIF red tape, I was sitting in the ED with my knee all swelled up from being sprained. One person's concept of an "emergency" can vary drastically from another's.  I was there for maybe 4 hours, but didn't even think to complain because I know full well that only a couple rooms away from me there are four trauma rooms that are almost always hoppin' with Life Flight patients and others that are really, truly emergency cases.